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Old July 7th, 2013, 11:25 PM   #721
mcarling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayancito View Post
Maybe i have a confusion with the term direct trains, wich actually means no transfers, because if the train actually makes stops, without transfers, then ok, the train can be full with people travelling from lille to Paris, from Paris to Marseille....Direct probably does not mean non stop.
Direct means not having to change trains, whether or not there are intermediate stops. (It's almost the same with aircraft; direct flights may stop (and, technically, even change planes) but continue with the same flight number.)
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Old July 8th, 2013, 08:58 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
My few and far away things I remember about French railways where:

- Easy to connect from one train to other. Possibility to have in the same ticket and some of the trains were linked so you could have a long distance train and will arrive at the same time than other one... and that stuff
.
That is not specific to French railways. Every railway in Europe, with the possible exception of RENFE, does that...
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Old July 8th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by Rayancito View Post
All i know is that in the voyages.sncf..com the train with a journey of 2 H 52 appears as a direct trip with no transfer, there are multiple trains doing the service that day that do have a transfer. On the other hand maybe in voyages.sncf.com they do not include stops, then is very hard to make a comparision, because those stops can take long time and even make the train travel more Kilometers, just to make the stop. Probably direct does not mean non stop, i was confused about that.
I can't get voyages.sncf..com to find me a Lille - Tours service? Gave up after a few moments, perhaps I should hve set it to english Anyway I used the Deutsche Bahn website, it works for me and gives you a link to click on train code to get a full itinerary for the service.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 01:05 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by Clery View Post
No, TGVs avoiding Paris don't interfere with suburban trafic. However, they have to take regular tracks. They can't do it at full HSR speed.
Equivocating on the word suburban. I meant tracks that are in the suburbs.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
I can't get voyages.sncf..com to find me a Lille - Tours service? Gave up after a few moments, perhaps I should hve set it to english Anyway I used the Deutsche Bahn website, it works for me and gives you a link to click on train code to get a full itinerary for the service.
Using the Deutsche bann web page i could notice that the 2 H 51 M service between Lille and Tours goes through Charles de Gaulle TGV Marnee la Valle Cheesy Massy TGV arriving at St-Pierre-des-Corps (4 kms from tours). Therefore it does not take the south west Bypass, it actually goes all around Paris, which explains the duration of the trip.

I repeat a question that i made before, are there any plans to improve the south west Bypass?
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Old July 9th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by Rayancito View Post

Using the Deutsche bann web page i could notice that the 2 H 51 M service between Lille and Tours goes through Charles de Gaulle TGV Marnee la Valle Cheesy Massy TGV arriving at St-Pierre-des-Corps (4 kms from tours). Therefore it does not take the south west Bypass, it actually goes all around Paris, which explains the duration of the trip.

I repeat a question that i made before, are there any plans to improve the south west Bypass?
What did you then mean with South west Bypass?
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Old July 9th, 2013, 01:03 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
What did you then mean with South west Bypass?
The one refered by mramelet.

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Originally Posted by mramelet View Post
Parisian stations (gare du nord, Est, Lyon, Montparnasse, Saint Lazare) are done for Paris O&D.
When it comes to transfert, France has build a kind of "bypass", via Charles de Gaulle Airport (from the North), Disneyland (from the south), and Massy-Palaiseau (for South West).
That means you can do a (Brussels)Lille-(CDG)-Marseille-Nice, or a Strasbourg-(Disneyland,Massy)-Bordeaux with going via Paris.
It's not the best route (particularly South West junction which is very limited in speed and capacity), but it does exists.
Plans exist to improve it, and create a new railway station at Orly
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Old July 9th, 2013, 11:10 PM   #728
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There is not an HSL linking the LGV Atlantique with the others, so TGVs have to share tracks with other trains: http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...paris-area.gif

Beside that, trains from LGV Atlantique to LGV Nord or LGV Est have to travel a few kilometres on the LGV Sud-Est, taking some capacity.
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Old July 10th, 2013, 03:11 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There is not an HSL linking the LGV Atlantique with the others, so TGVs have to share tracks with other trains: http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...paris-area.gif

Beside that, trains from LGV Atlantique to LGV Nord or LGV Est have to travel a few kilometres on the LGV Sud-Est, taking some capacity.
Ok then, any plans to connect on the west of Paris the LGV atlantique with the LGV Nord? In the last years the LGV nord has gained much better connections with London with the HSL 1, and a new HSL with Amsterdam through Bruselles, with the undergoing construction of the HSL from Tours to Bordeaux it seems reasonable to think about such a direct connection betwee LGV nord LGV atlantique. There is a big project for Grand Paris railways, is it not included there?

Last edited by Rayancito; July 10th, 2013 at 03:25 AM.
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Old July 10th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #730
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There is a plan for a connecting LGV via Orly airport, but it is at the early design phase and no LGVs will be started before the end of the four now under construction (around 2017). And maybe neither after: apparently, France is reconsidering many if not nearly all LGV projects (at least that's what I heard, I would be happy to have more precisions from a French).
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Old July 11th, 2013, 11:54 AM   #731
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I'm French and I can give you some explanations

As you said, right now, we have four HSL (LGV in French) under construction:

1) LGV SEA between Tours and Bordeaux (300km), 2017.
2) LGV BPL between Le Mans and Rennes (180km), 2017.
3) LGV Est, phase 2, between the end of the actual LGV Est and Strasbourg (106km), March 2016.
4) Contournement de Nîmes et Montpellier (80km), 2017.

The LGV SEA and BPL correspond to the achievement of the LGV Atlantique, built in the 90s between Paris and Tours/Le Mans (2 branches).
The "Contournement de Nîmes et Montpellier" will increase the length of the "Languedoc branch" of the LGV Méditerranée.

Apart from that, we had several other projects of HSR under the last government:

1) Achievement of the LGV Rhin-Rhône project: a 3 branches star-like line between the LGV Sud-Est, Dijon, Mulhouse and Lyon. Only the first part of the first branch has been built.
2) The Lyon-Turin line, which has never been a proper line but a mix between modernized existing line, a short new line between Lyon and the Alps and massive tunnels for freight and passengers.
3) The new PACA HSR between Nice and Marseille. This project has been incredibly messy because of the really high prices due to the mountainous area but also because people are fighting against each other for stupid reasons, without realizing that they act against their own interests.
4) The Bordeaux-Toulouse-Spain line. Its a 3 branches line with a triangle in Captieux to allow trains to run between Bordeaux and Spain, Bordeaux and Toulouse but also Toulouse and Spain.
5) The Poitiers-Limoges HSR.
6) The POCL project (Paris-Orléans-Clermont-Lyon). This project is a new HSR to double the LGV Sud-Est between Paris and Lyon (The first ever built in France). It is also supposed to allow people from the center of France (Clermont-Ferrand) to have access to the HSR with a 2hrs journey to Paris.
7) The new Montepellier-Perpignan line, between the end of the "contournement de Nîmes et Montpellier" and the Perpignan-Barcelona HSR, to ensure a continuous HSR link between Europe and Spain.
8) The south HSR connexion, just south of Paris, to connect the LGV Atlantique with all the others
9) Finally, there are a few other projects, which are not really clear, like the
new Toulouse-Narbonne line, to allow a continuous link between Atlantic and Mediterranean sea, the Paris-Calais line to reduce the journey time between Paris and London to less than 2 hrs and also maybe a project to continue the LGV BPL after Rennes in Britanny, toward Brest and Quimper.

Anyway the current government published an official report last week to say that they delay all the projects to "after 2030", except the Bordeaux-Toulouse HSR.

Of course, it's really hypocritical because when they say "after 2030", it just means "We cancel the projects as long as we are here" but if they had said that, lots of protestations would have occurred. Of course, in 2030, they won't be there anymore. So basically, what the report really says is "We cancel all the current projects until 2017 at least" because in 2017, we have the next presidential election and hopefully, the current government will change. If we have a new "righty" government, then they will certainly say that some of these projects are again on track.

To summarize, in 2017, we will have lots of new HSR in service. After that, the Bordeaux-Toulouse line will be built and for the other projects, it will depend on the government but we will certainly see some of these projects come back in the 2020s.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #732
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Thank you. The four lines under construction total 666 km, which is a lot, it would be difficult to start new projects until they open.

As for the Lyon-Turin (point n.2), as far I know France postponed all parts of that line except the Fréjus base tunnel because it is international (located 4/5 in France, 1/5 in Italy), but I would not bet on its quick construction either. Any news about that? I heard they will soon built an exploratory tunnel between Saint Martin and La Praz access tunnels.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 12:29 PM   #733
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For the base tunnel, I'm not sure but as far as I know, lots of the money comes from the European Union. It's not the same problem anymore because the French government won't have to pay 8 billions for the tunnel.

But yes, the work is currently improving quite well with the exploratory tunnels which will finally become parts of the base tunnel itself.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 02:44 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by Rayancito View Post
I am not assuming anything, it just seems strange to me this trains can be full, that is why i am asking the load factor. A single trip one day does not make profitable one service.
It's important to notice that each service on it's own does not have to be profitable. It's the system as whole that countrs. In general there are a few services that rakes in most revenue and they then subsidise the ones with lower revenue, to a certain extent.

And about the non-stop discussion, the Lille-Marseille service do of course have intermediate stops.

I also belive we will have to get used to somewhat longer travel times due to the increased cost of fuel. Increased travel time will have to be met with better amenities so that people don't loose productive time.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 04:36 PM   #735
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Originally Posted by Rayancito View Post
Using the Deutsche bann web page i could notice that the 2 H 51 M service between Lille and Tours goes through Charles de Gaulle TGV Marnee la Valle Cheesy Massy TGV arriving at St-Pierre-des-Corps (4 kms from tours). Therefore it does not take the south west Bypass, it actually goes all around Paris, which explains the duration of the trip.

I repeat a question that i made before, are there any plans to improve the south west Bypass?
I posted those exact same stations - no TGVs use a south west bypass, because there isn't one.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #736
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@Flo Flo: What about the LGV Paris-Normandie?

I read that the project is not canceled, but not approved either (as far as I understood ).
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:42 PM   #737
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@Flo Flo: What about the LGV Paris-Normandie?

I read that the project is not canceled, but not approved either (as far as I understood ).
It's still on the table, but not formally decided. There's currently some arm-twisting over who-pays-what between the State, the regions and the cities. That's always the case these days: whenever regions that are not absolutely central to the railway network demand LGVs they are asked to cover part of the cost themselves.

Moreover, it appears that the consultation process that took place in 2012 resulted in picking the most expensive solution. Perhaps for this reason, the project now also appears to have been carved up in two phases: (1) the fast link (200 km/h) between Paris and Mantes la Jolie (on the "horizon" for 2025); and (2) the fast link (250 km/h) between Mantes and Rouen/Le Havre/Caen (on the "horizon for 2030). If you read French there's more here:
http://www.rff.fr/reseau/projets/nou...aris-normandie
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Old August 9th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #738
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Good news: the EPSF (Établissement Public de Securité Ferroviaire) has authorized the class 100 AVE trains to run on the Perpignan-Figueres HSL and on classic French lines under 1.5 kV.

(in French) http://www.securite-ferroviaire.fr/f...p?mod=1&id=193
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Old August 11th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #739
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In the last born TGV Duplex, upper deck, economy class.









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Old August 29th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #740
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New international TGV service between France and Germany:

Quote:
TGV Rhine-Rhône – new TGV Paris-Freiburg high speed link

From 26 August 2013, SNCF will operate a new international service linking Paris to Freiburg im Breisgau (Germany).

The new Paris-Freiburg route will mark the expansion of the TGV Rhine-Rhône service to European destinations.

The present Paris-Mulhouse daily return journey will thus be extended to Freiburg im Breisgau from 26 August 2013. This new route has been open to reservations since 16 July and complements the connecting TGV/TER service which has operated since the reopening of the Mulhouse-Mulheim line in December 2012.

http://www.uic.org/com/article/franc...thickbox_enews
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