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Old November 30th, 2015, 01:56 PM   #1061
M-NL
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I'm just wondering something with that latest derailment: They needed to test the track at 10% over normal track speed, for which they obviously disabled the TVM and KVB. But it would have made much more sense to add a special track test mode that allows a test train to travel 10% or 15% over normal track speed with the train protection active. For 99% of all track testing that would be sufficient and safer.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 06:55 AM   #1062
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I still think it's silly that nowadays a high-speed test is run with fail-safe safety systems disabled. Can they not be easily adjusted for 10% overspeed? This accident was an example of "don't need to do that, just disable it, was fine so far".
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Beyond from what AlexNL posted before, the objective of a safety system is that NEVER, in NO POSSIBLE OCCASION, no matter WHO the driver is a personal friend, no matter what hurry everybody is, no matter whether there is a failure or even if someone got personally to the signal to change the code, the train NEVER will be able to over-speed on a commercial operation.

Its hard-coded on the signal, on the train and on the track to not allow it, and won't unless you remove everything and reinstall it.

This is why its called a SAFETY system.

But since it was a test, the objective is exactly to go against it, to be unsafe and test the limits. Unfortunately they gone BEYOND the limits, but this is why its a test, to know what can go wrong.

All that can be done is to take more care (no parents or unauthorized personal in the cab) next time.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 12:16 PM   #1063
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All that can be done is to take more care (no parents or unauthorized personal in the cab) next time.
This is nonsense. Clearly it is not "all that can be done". It is perfectly possible to install or reprogramme the signalling to allow +10%. Yes it will take time. Yes it will take money. But these tests take a lot of time and a lot of money. Destroying a trainset cost a lot of money. The damage to SNCF's and the TGV's reputation will cost a lot of money. The compensation to the families of the dead on the train will cost a lot of money.

Too many apologists on here.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 02:18 PM   #1064
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Testing the limits? Nonsense. You say it as if they were trying to determine at what speed the train would tip over. 10% overspeed is well below the limits.

Now, going 574,8 km/h was a bit crazy and a one-time thing. This was a normal testing procedure that gets repeated over and over.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:26 AM   #1065
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Now, going 574,8 km/h was a bit crazy and a one-time thing.
Wasn't the train highly instrumented for that 574.8 km/h test so that they could improve the design of future generations of TGV?
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Old December 8th, 2015, 12:53 AM   #1066
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Wasn't the train highly instrumented for that 574.8 km/h test so that they could improve the design of future generations of TGV?
Yes.
Like all the high speed records.
But the commercial speeds over 360-400 km/h are highly unprofitable (conventional rail or maglev) because the air friction increase and the energy consumption go up a lot.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 01:00 AM   #1067
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But the commercial speeds over 360-400 km/h are highly unprofitable (conventional rail or maglev) because the air friction increase and the energy consumption go up a lot.
That's why Elon Musk wants to put very high-speed rail in a tunnel with reduced air pressure. The train would be internally pressurized like a jet aircraft. The tunnel pressure would be kept at a survivable level in case a train were to experience a pressurization failure. Presumably oxygen mask would drop, just like in an airliner.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 02:47 AM   #1068
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By tunnel you mean elevated tube that is easily damaged and slightest movements/damage to that tube would cause fatal crashes...

Elon Musk's idea is more full of holes than a sponge.

Pneumatic/Vacuum railways were successfully trialled, but there's several good reasons why they only went as far as attractions at big exhibitions of science, etc and stopped being made about 100 years ago.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 03:43 AM   #1069
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Elon Musk's idea is more full of holes than a sponge.

Pneumatic/Vacuum railways were successfully trialled, but there's several good reasons why they only went as far as attractions at big exhibitions of science, etc and stopped being made about 100 years ago.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 04:55 AM   #1070
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By tunnel you mean elevated tube that is easily damaged and slightest movements/damage to that tube would cause fatal crashes...
A tunnel would work better for the reasons you listed. That's why I wrote tunnel, but the principle is the same. It doesn't make sense to go faster than about 400 km/h without reducing the air pressure. Of course, with current TBM technology, it would be prohibitively expensive, but TBM costs continue to drop.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 01:14 PM   #1071
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A tunnel would work better for the reasons you listed.
Indeed, but you credited Elon Musk's plan with sensibly putting the hyperloop in a tunnel, and the folly of his actual plan needed to be exposed!
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Old December 8th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #1072
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Hyperloop must not be considered in this forum. It is smoke
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Old December 29th, 2015, 04:10 AM   #1073
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Old January 6th, 2016, 04:03 PM   #1074
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Has there been any further news on the LGV Est crash and when the line will open to passengers as a result?
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Old January 6th, 2016, 07:26 PM   #1075
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=531

Tracklaying completed on French high-speed line
Wednesday, January 06, 2016



A milestone was reached in the construction of France's Sud-Europ Atlantique (SEA) high-speed line at the end of December, when the final section of rail was welded north of the Dordogne Viaduct in Gironde, a year after tracklaying began in the department of Charente

Ballasting and electrification work continues and this phase of the project is due to be completed by the middle of the year, by which time contractors will have installed 1400km of rail, 1.1 million sleepers, three million tonnes of ballast, and 14,000 catenary masts

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Old January 8th, 2016, 10:14 PM   #1076
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=524

SNCF to launch TGV ticket barrier trial
Friday, January 08, 2016



FRENCH National Railways (SNCF) will introduce ticket barriers at two major stations from January 11 as part of a three-month trial seeking to address the issue of fare evasion, which costs SNCF around €300m a year in lost revenue

Four barriers will be installed on platforms used by TGVs at Paris Montparnasse and Marseilles Saint-Charles stations and the trial will evaluate the operation of equipment from four suppliers: Thales, IER, Scheidt & Bachmann, and Xerox. One of these suppliers will be selected to provide technology for the rollout of ticket barriers at other TGV stations by 2017

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Old January 9th, 2016, 01:14 AM   #1077
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Fare evasion on long distance trains? It would mean little or no checks on board...
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Old January 10th, 2016, 02:59 AM   #1078
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Yeah, that's pretty weird.
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Old January 10th, 2016, 03:49 AM   #1079
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In fact the fare evasion is not that important on TGVs (even if SNCF evaluate it to around 200 millions € per year, but probably a very overexagerated evaluation), but it takes place in a context where many people are talking about the safety in our trains as a problem (during regional elections, 1 month ago, some of the candidates wanted to enhance the security patrols inside french trains (regional trains in instance)), and it takes place in this context of the terrorist attacks and Vigipirate plan... So probably SNCF got also a lot of political pressure about this and with possibility to lower the fraud, that's what pushed them to try this I think...
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Old January 10th, 2016, 05:06 PM   #1080
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Fare evasion mostly takes place on short-distance routes, because the chances of getting caught are pretty low. On long distance traffic, where you're spending 1.5 hrs in the same train without stopping, you are almost certain to get caught and get issued with a penalty fare.

Re. fare evasion: how is this dealt with in France? What happens if you get caught without a ticket?
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