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Old September 8th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #1221
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What are the main problems of AGV? The concept of distributed units and construction so it cannot be pancaked seems cool.
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Old September 8th, 2016, 09:47 PM   #1222
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So the French won't even bother this time to call for offers from other compitors and give the order straight to Alstom? French and their protectionism...
Protectionism? Oh yes we protect Alstom so much that they will close a 400 workers factory in Belfort (the factory where the first TGV was born)...

It's fair that Alstom and the SNCF work togethers, they have both an excellent knowledge on this (especially the SNCF, they are far from simply operating trains, they have a lot of engineers for example and they work on the network...)
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Old September 9th, 2016, 03:20 PM   #1223
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What are the main problems of AGV?
It came to market late (years after the Velaro) and I expect some operators aren't keen on the articulated design.

When Trenitalia put an order for 50 high speed trains out to tender, they explicitly stated they did not want an articulated design. So Alstom offered the Speedelia, but this didn't go anywhere as the deal went to Bombardier + AnsaldoBreda.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 02:52 PM   #1224
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I have to say having ridden on the AGV and the new Eurostar, I much prefer the AGV.

The new Alstom train for America is said to form the basis of a design that Alstom might offer the UK for HS2. Short power cars and interchangeable duplex or single deck trailers. I can also see that being attractive for SNCF.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 01:55 AM   #1225
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High speed Train ( TGV, Eurostar, OUIGO, Thalys) in France

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Old September 11th, 2016, 01:41 PM   #1226
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Protectionism? Oh yes we protect Alstom so much that they will close a 400 workers factory in Belfort (the factory where the first TGV was born)...

It's fair that Alstom and the SNCF work togethers, they have both an excellent knowledge on this (especially the SNCF, they are far from simply operating trains, they have a lot of engineers for example and they work on the network...)
So does Siemens. I wonder why they chose Alsom over them?
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Old September 11th, 2016, 01:48 PM   #1227
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Just like DB and how they will never order anything besides Siemens.
You confuse them with ÖBB. DB buys plenty of rolling stock from other producers as well.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 03:50 PM   #1228
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Quote:
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So does Siemens. I wonder why they chose Alsom over them?
Dunno, maybe the SNCF demanded a product that could be used on both standard and LGB lines. Maybe not. Maybe Siemens offered a similar deal or product, maybe not.

Either way, I don't see Siemens crying or talking of legal charges.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 03:58 PM   #1229
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Quote:
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So does Siemens. I wonder why they chose Alsom over them?
http://www.lesechos.fr/25/03/2015/le...cahin-caha.htm

There is your answer, the project was opened to competition and a European tender started summer last year.
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Old September 13th, 2016, 04:35 PM   #1230
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Protectionism? Oh yes we protect Alstom so much that they will close a 400 workers factory in Belfort (the factory where the first TGV was born)...
I think that the people who criticize "French protectionism" are barking up the wrong tree. Of course there is protectionism here and there, but it is not particularly pronounced in SNCF's acquisition of rolling stock. In fact, Alstom's present problems partly reflect a drought in orders, including from the domestic railway operators. The perhaps most visible protectionism is found in the allocation of construction contracts for new railway lines, which automatically and in alternation go to three domestic construction companies. As a Danish expat I find this quite eye-opening, because my compatriots have taken EU-wide tendering so seriously that, for example, the current metro extension in Copenhagen is undertaken by the Italian company Salini.

I cannot help thinking that this Belfort discussion is linked to an entirely different issue. It can't be mostly about TGVs because the French government has already in the recent past instructed SNCF to buy some more such trains - yes, in order to give Alstom a helping hand. There's just not much more money to be made from selling TGVs in France in the coming years. Much more likely this is linked to the upcoming bidding for new RER trains for Paris's lines D and E. This contract will be hugely lucrative, and Alstom seems to be increasingly worried that it will go to a foreign competitor. This would be seriously damaging for the company, and it looks to me like they are trying to prevent it from happening by firing a warning shot and creating a "political storm".
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Old September 13th, 2016, 04:53 PM   #1231
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Well I think this is all here beyond the point, according to the article from lesechos a tender ran since last summer. We don't know the terms of the tender, who made an offer and what were the terms. Right now Siemens does not appear to pursue legal charges in Brussels.

And as a reminder, talking of France, in a few days H&K (German) will be announced winner of a major defence procurement with 100.000 units of HK 416 ordered. But yeah, French protectionism.
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Old September 13th, 2016, 06:10 PM   #1232
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Quote:
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Dunno, maybe the SNCF demanded a product that could be used on both standard and LGB lines. Maybe not. Maybe Siemens offered a similar deal or product, maybe not.

Either way, I don't see Siemens crying or talking of legal charges.
There was a tender? I very much doubt that.
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Old September 13th, 2016, 06:34 PM   #1233
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There was a tender? I very much doubt that.
Apparently there was

http://www.lesechos.fr/25/03/2015/le...cahin-caha.htm

Appel d'offres lancé d'ici l'été
La SNCF, de son côté, devrait lancer « d'ici à l'été " un appel d'offres européen pour construire un « partenariat d'innovation " destiné à concevoir ce nouveau train, et donc le résultat sera connu début 2016, annoncent les pouvoirs publics. Sur le papier, le passage par un appel d'offres implique une mise en concurrence qui ne garantit nullement que le marché aille à Alstom. Ce serait toutefois un véritable séisme si Siemens ou Bombardier raflaient la mise.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 10:38 AM   #1234
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TGV du futur

In the future TGV project will participate SNCF and Alstom.

The collaboration will involve three phases: Definition and specification of the new TGV until the end of 2017, detailed design, industrialization and approval in four years and production, delivery and commissioning in mid-2022.

The team of twenty experts fully dedicated to the project work in a single joint headquarters in Paris and coordinated with SNCF teams and eight of the twelve French Alstom factories. It was also enriched by the contributions experts outside the project, engineering schools, and design, or industrial companies.

Alstom
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An integrated, multidisciplinary team of 20 experts from SNCF and Alstom, fully dedicated to the project, is from now on working in a single, stand-alone site located on Avenue du Maine in Paris. This method of working enables rapid decision-making, simultaneously taking into account all aspects of the project: passenger services, operation and maintenance, technical and industrial feasibility, costs ...

The SNCF-Alstom team, working in close conjuction with the internal resources of both companies, is also open to the outside. It regularly invites experts and guests to contribute their knowledge, particularly in terms of innovative working methods and advanced technical solutions. The team is thus enriched through successful collaborations with engineering and design schools, as well as other industrial companies and startups.
News about this topic in the media
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Old September 14th, 2016, 02:44 PM   #1235
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=523

SNCF unveils first TGV Océane train
Wednesday, September 14, 2016



THE first Alstom TGV 2N2 Euroduplex Atlantique train for the 302km Sud Europ Atlantique high-speed line was revealed to the press at Paris Montparnasse station on September 14 by French National Railways (SNCF) president Mr Guillaume Pepy and Mrs Rachel Picard, CEO of Voyages SNCF

The fleet of 40 dual-voltage (25kV 50Hz ac/1.5kV dc) double-deck trains - dubbed TGV Océane by SNCF - were ordered in March 2012 using a €1.2bn option from a contract awarded to Alstom in 2007. The new trains will be supplemented on Atlantique services by 24 existing Duplex trains, which will be refurbished for their new role. These trains will replace the single-deck TGV Atlantique sets currently used on services from Paris to western and south-west France

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Old September 18th, 2016, 03:15 PM   #1236
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Quote:
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Protectionism? Oh yes we protect Alstom so much that they will close a 400 workers factory in Belfort (the factory where the first TGV was born)...

It's fair that Alstom and the SNCF work togethers, they have both an excellent knowledge on this (especially the SNCF, they are far from simply operating trains, they have a lot of engineers for example and they work on the network...)
There is a solution for that: politics or Alstom should force SNCF to relocate all refurbishment activities for all TGV sets to Belfort. That way SNCF's own Technicentres can concentrate on their core business: maintenance.

If you see how long some refurbishment programmes (Eurostar TMST/E300) are taking or some have been over their due date (TGV Duplex Mk1, batches 1-4), I think it's time to hand it over to a company who can do it in a timely and proper manner. Since Alstom built the sets they know them inside and out, and have a lot more experience as for logistics etc..
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Old September 21st, 2016, 04:53 PM   #1237
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New Euroduplex Océane

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Embarquez à bord du nouveau TGV l'Océane qui circulera sur la ligne Paris-Bordeaux-Toulouse.


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Old September 23rd, 2016, 10:08 PM   #1238
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In a few days I'll have an opportunity to try out the OUIGO services. Somewhat disappointingly, I found out that the passengers are required to present themselves on the specified platform at least 30 minutes before the departure time . Well, the travel time would be otherwise fast, some 1 hour and 25 minutes, but adding half an hour to this looks a bit frustrating. So what are the grounds for this requirement? Why it's enough to be 5 minutes before the departure of iDTGV and as little as 2 minutes before THALYS departure time, while OUIGO requires the appearance half an hour before it leaves the station? Does anyone have a logical explanation?
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Old September 24th, 2016, 01:22 AM   #1239
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Because they let you board all at once, and do some luggage size checks.

I'd like to test the service too, will try when I have the chance.
Please get back to us about your experiences.
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Old September 24th, 2016, 04:58 AM   #1240
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In a few days I'll have an opportunity to try out the OUIGO services. Somewhat disappointingly, I found out that the passengers are required to present themselves on the specified platform at least 30 minutes before the departure time . Well, the travel time would be otherwise fast, some 1 hour and 25 minutes, but adding half an hour to this looks a bit frustrating. So what are the grounds for this requirement? Why it's enough to be 5 minutes before the departure of iDTGV and as little as 2 minutes before THALYS departure time, while OUIGO requires the appearance half an hour before it leaves the station? Does anyone have a logical explanation?
It proves, just like the low cost carrier airlines, the costs are not just financial.
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