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Old January 4th, 2017, 04:29 PM   #1261
33Hz
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This week I had my first trip on the second part of the LGV Est (Strasbourg - Paris). I was travelling on a new DB Velaro D.

I noticed that for the whole of the new section we never went over 230 km/h, then once we passed the junction at Baudrecourt we immediately accelerated to 320 km/h.

Is the new section under a speed limit? As a result of the accident in testing still or for some another reason?
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Old January 4th, 2017, 11:50 PM   #1262
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As far as I can tell, the whole line is designed and built for 320 km/h operation. Maybe a different train was in front of yours, which was no longer in the way when you passed Baudrecourt?
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Old January 5th, 2017, 01:35 PM   #1263
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What they said was that the maximum speed after the accident would be 300 km/h.

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Le nouveau protocole d'essais aura pour conséquence que la vitesse d'exploitation garantie lors de la mise en service sera de 300 km/h, alors qu'elle devait être initialement de 320 km/h, a-t-il précisé.
And in a single track:
Quote:
En attendant la remise en état du site de l'accident, les trains circulent dans un premier temps sur une seule voie entre Steinbourg et le raccordement de Vendenheim, soit environ 27 kilomètres
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Old January 5th, 2017, 01:50 PM   #1264
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But the accident happened in a section without fully activated signaling, right? How does a lower speed help in that sense (unless it was really something lower, like 150-180 km/h)?

This seems one of those useless measures that do not increase safety at all, but are taken just as scrimps for the external public, which wants the perception that "something has been done".
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Old January 5th, 2017, 01:51 PM   #1265
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The single track is probably because in the accident a bridge was seriously damaged, so it will take more time to rebuild and settle.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #1266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
The single track is probably because in the accident a bridge was seriously damaged, so it will take more time to rebuild and settle.
More than 1 year even?
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Old January 5th, 2017, 06:51 PM   #1267
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I went over the bridge that was involved in the accident and a train passed on the other side some minutes later.

Furthermore we lost no time between Strasbourg and Paris, so I can only assume we were running at the designated speed.
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Old January 18th, 2017, 04:45 PM   #1268
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An opinion about the new TGV Océane trainsets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisavoine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
From the 11th, the new Euroduplex 3UFC Océane (851/890) has begun to circulate through the LGV Atlantique
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokomo View Post
One question:

Are these new Océane trainsets comparable to current Duplex one in service? I mean, I took one from Nice to Marseille not so long ago, and was on the upper deck and it was a somewhat miserable experience. I found it too cramped and the ladder was way to narrow if you're carrying a suitcase.
I was one of the first customers to use those new Atlantic duplex high-speed trains between Toulouse and Paris last week, and all I can say is... this is the worst high-speed train I've ever seen in my entire life!

I don't even know where to start. In no particular order:
- the seats are the most uncomfortable I've ever experienced in a train or bus anywhere in the world, including Third World countries. They have fallen for the gimmick of lumbar back support, which means the lowest part of the backrest (where it joins the flat horizontal part of the seat) is protruding instead of being flat or curvy (concave) as it used to be with traditional seats. While these sorts of protruding lumbar back supports may work fine for certain people, they are not adjustable and can be hell for many people, including me. Even when you incline the backrest backward, which makes the lumbar back support less protruding, it's still very uncomfortable. As a result, I spent 5 hours in pain.

I can't believe how stupid they are for having designed seats that way! I've never seen that in any other train in the world, either in France or abroad. If all the old Atlantic TGVs are withdrawn from service, I'm now considering using the old slow train line via Limoges instead, because these new seats are frankly unbearable. This is making me extremely mad.

- to make things worse, they have completely removed the footrests! Footrests are great because they allow you to switch positions during your trip (sometime you put your feet on the footrest, sometimes on the floor, which is good for your posture as you can move frequently, especially on long train trips, considering that Toulouse is more than 5 hours by train from Paris!). Well the stupid people at SNCF decided that footrests were not needed anymore, so they are gone, just like that! This compounds the problem of the protruding lumbar back support, since you can't switch positions during the trip. This is particularly stupid considering that the TGV Atlantique are used for long trips, much longer than trips to Lyon or Marseille. I've asked my physical therapist who also agrees that it's not good for the body to remove the footrests.

- this you will never believe: there are no more trash cans below or on the side of the seats!! In fact they have removed all the trash cans! There is only one trash can for everybody on the exit platform of each car. Before arriving in Paris, they run a message on the screen of each car asking people not to forget to leave their trash in the only trash can on the exit platform before they exit the train. SNCF was very clear about the reason why they did this: it saves them time, as the SNCF personnel doesn't have to remove trash from each individual trash can when they clean the trains between two train rides. Yet the price of the train tickets has not gone down (I paid 115 euros for a one-way ticket!!!!!).

As a result, I did something I never ever do normally: I left all my trash on the table in front of my seat. I mean F...K THEM!

- this is something that didn't bother me as I don't mind cold, but which bothered tremendously the people in the car where I sat: the AC is too strong, the flow of cold air is much stronger than in the other trains I've used (despite it being winter, they blow cold air, not warm air, yet the temperature inside the car is around 20 degrees, but the air you feel coming out of the AC is cold). The people in the car had to wear scarves and complained loudly. Personally, I don't mind drafts of fresh air, so it didn't bother me. The only thing which bothered me was I'm used to putting my elbow on the AC vent by the window, as it offers some sort of support, but with this train it was uncomfortable as it made my arm rather cold quickly.

- this you won't believe either: these new trains are supposed to be high-tech and whatnot, with Wi-Fi, USB plugs, etc. In the older TGV Atlantique we had only one electricity plug for 2 seats, so it was often a competition with your neighbor as to who would get to plug their phone or laptop. I thought with the new duplex trains we would have two electricity plugs. Well, ladies and gentlemen, the incompetent SNCF decided that one electricity plug was enough, so we still have only one electricity plug for 2 seats!! I mean, why add some comfort if you can scrap a few cents...

- the general interior design of these duplex trains is very cheap. The seats are not only uncomfortable but their fabric looks cheap. The armrests look cheap. The colors used are cheap. The cheapest thing being the clunky plastic button that you have to push to turn on your individual light. This button is located on the inner side of one armrest and looks straight out of the 1980s. Apple design this is not!

This protruding plastic button is so inconveniently located that by trying to rest my back on the armrest to remove the pain from the lumbar back support my body often turned on the light, which was annoying. I mean, in this day and age of technology, they couldn't have made a flat button with no risk of being pushed inadvertently?? Again, you can feel they have saved all the money they could with every detail, yet the price of the train tickets is as horrendously expensive as ever.

In this picture you can see the protruding plastic button (on the side of the raised armrest):



- there's no Wi-Fi. I don't know whether there'll be some Wi-Fi someday, but at the moment there isn't. And on top of it, I swear I'm not exaggerating, the reception on my phone was much worse than in the older TGV Atlantique. Not only internet mobile reception, but also good old telephone reception. Both were noticeably worse (I use this train line a lot, so I'm well used to what sort of reception I can expect where and when). I don't know whether that's due to the frame of these trains, the metals, etc. So on top of sitting there uncomfortably for 5 hours, I was without internet for 75% to 80% of the time!! Can you believe in a modern country like France you have not internet reception in a train between the 5h and 4th largest metro areas and the capital city?? In fact telephone reception is better in rural Morocco in my experience! Even in some urban areas like Angoulême and its suburbs it was hard to receive internet in these new trains (in the old TGV I never had problems connecting to the internet while crossing the suburbs of Angoulême).

- so, I thought ok, everything is crap, but at least it's a new train, so when we reach the high-speed part of the line (i.e. after Tours) it will be less noisy and more comfortable than with the old TGV (in the old TGV Atlantique, when you're at 300 km/h it's very noisy, whereas on the duplex TGV between Paris and Lyon it's much quieter in comparison). Well, much to my horror the high-speed section between Tours and Paris was as noisy as with the old TGV Atlantique, and definitely noisier and less comfortable than when you use the duplex between Paris and Lyon. On top of it, I was on the elevated level, and it swayed noticeably, in a way neither the old TGV Atlantique nor the elevated level of the duplex between Paris and Lyon does). Back in the 1990s the authorities boasted about the fact you could put a pen standing up on the table in from of your seat and it wouldn't fall, well I can assure you this would certainly be impossible on the elevated level of these new duplex trains. The only benefit is the swaying eased my back pain a bit.

So my conclusion: a very cheap train, very inferior to the duplex TGV on the Paris-Lyon line, where I never had back pain or noticed any cheapness. With those new Atlantic duplex (pompously called "Euroduplex", I mean please!), you can feel they have tried to save money in every department, to the detriment of customers, who are still required to pay high prices for their tickets. . This is absolutely outrageous and shameful. And to think we're now stuck with these trains for 20 years...
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Old January 18th, 2017, 08:16 PM   #1269
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I don't know what is happening, but train operators seem determined to drive people back to the airlines. (The new - future - Talgos with 3+2 seating in Spain are another example...) Or are they just testing how far they can go in making trains a low cost experience without losing customers?

Guess what, if I am going to be uncomfortable, I'd rather be so on a short flight than on a longer train ride...
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:07 AM   #1270
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Hey,

thank-you for the detailed (and negative) information concerning the new TGV.
My question:

How does first class look like, is there more or better comfort?

There are also older TGV being refurbished to look like TGV l'Océane: Do they have the same seating?
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Old January 19th, 2017, 01:30 PM   #1271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbbcn View Post

I don't know what is happening, but train operators seem determined to drive people back to the airlines. (The new - future - Talgos with 3+2 seating in Spain are another example...) Or are they just testing how far they can go in making trains a low cost experience without losing customers?

Guess what, if I am going to be uncomfortable, I'd rather be so on a short flight than on a longer train ride...
I have to test one of these trains myself but a few remarks:

- Getting rid of the footrests I consider a good thing. Those things are a bloody nuisance. They don't fold up completely and thus always protrude in the space where I want my leggs to be. So I have the choice of either having my feet uncomfortable high up, or either hitting my chins against it continually.
- The trashcans at the seats are in most cases useless. Collecting my trash in a bag and disposing of it when exiting is something I've been doing for ages.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 08:36 PM   #1272
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Trash cans near seat are good on the few occasions where you have trash and the can is empty, of no use when it is full with just one bottle, and nasty when they are overflowing.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 07:45 PM   #1273
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From Rail Journal

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=523

Test trains reach 352km/h on Bretagne-Pays de la Loire high-speed line
Thursday, February 02, 2017



THE Bretagne-Pays de la Loire high-speed line moved another step closer to the start of operations at the end of January, when TGVs reached the maximum testing speed of 352km/h

The test programme requires validation of safe operation at 352km/h, 10% above the maximum commercial operating speed of 320km/h. Testing began in November 2016 and speeds have been incrementally increased over the last two months

...
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 02:02 PM   #1274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
The trashcans at the seats are in most cases useless. Collecting my trash in a bag and disposing of it when exiting is something I've been doing for ages.
I could live with that provided that they provide free bags on the train to collect the garbage in. Especially when you spent several hours in the same train, chances are you will need to dispose of several items, some of them not very suitable for transport without a container.
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 02:17 PM   #1275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I have to test one of these trains myself but a few remarks:

- Getting rid of the footrests I consider a good thing. Those things are a bloody nuisance. They don't fold up completely and thus always protrude in the space where I want my leggs to be. So I have the choice of either having my feet uncomfortable high up, or either hitting my chins against it continually.
For tall people it is a nuisance. But wait, not everybody is almost 2 meters long! I'm almost obliged to use footrests in order to let my feet rest, and I think the average Frenchman, especially since the army sent all tall men to the front a long time ago (or at least it's the funny explanation of the fact that they're not so tall), will be pleased as well with footrests. So I definitely think this is a step backwards.
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 05:28 PM   #1276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Polman View Post
For tall people it is a nuisance. But wait, not everybody is almost 2 meters long!
I'm not particularly tall though. In fact, at 1m82 I'm perfectly average...

The nuisance is that somehow the footrests in the TGV cannot be completely folded up. Who came up with that...
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 06:33 PM   #1277
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Quote:
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In fact, at 1m82 I'm perfectly average...
That depends on what you compare yourself to:
Ignoring some small differences between data sources: In the Netherlands the average height of a male is 184cm, in Europe as a whole 178cm, in France 177cm, in Japan 172cm and in India 165cm.

Also consider that a large frame 89kg 188cm Dutch man needs to sit on the same seat as a small frame 52kg 158cm French woman. In reality the spread is even larger, so one size seats all will result in compromises.
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Old February 4th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #1278
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TGV Atlantique

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Old February 5th, 2017, 12:49 PM   #1279
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How are SNCF low cost high speed trains operations doing (idTGV and OuiGo)?
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Old February 11th, 2017, 11:19 PM   #1280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
There are also older TGV being refurbished to look like TGV l'Océane: Do they have the same seating?
That will probably be TGV Duplex, batch 1 from 1995-1997, 24 sets to be refurbished. Details still unknown, but will probably look alot like the TGV Océane to be able to mix in the same services (same seatplan = same reservation scheme/seat capacity). They will also be equipped with ETCS L2 so they can run at 320 km/h (all other sets running on TVM300 will remain at 300 km/h).
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