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Old May 30th, 2017, 08:50 AM   #1321
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Originally Posted by entfe001 View Post
Also, due to the testings running at 110% of top speed, the signalling safety systems had to be disabled so any overspeed past the point of safe braking put the train in a situation where the accident was unavoidable before it happened.

I've already read several accident reports, where they state that a train control system had to be disabled, because they wanted to exceed the normal running speed. And everytime I just wonder why? Testing at higher then normal track speed is a very regular occurence, so why not provide protection for that? The enforced speeds and braking curves are 'just numbers' in a computer program nowadays. Why not have some special limited access testing mode that enforces increased speed limits and steeper braking curves, so you can test with a safety net switched on?
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Old May 31st, 2017, 05:23 AM   #1322
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Germany and France desperately need a high-moneyed flashy private competitor. Italo was the very best thing to have happened to railway services in Italy since the dawn of tilting trains from Fiat Ferroviaria.

I mean: a private competitor with muscle, big enough to fend off price wars and withstand them, not a small enterprise with some hand-me-down stock.

That could force SNCF to up its game.
SNCF doesn´t care, is a big monpolical enterprise that is not interested in trains, but in bureaucracy, monopoly and public managers acting as owners of the whole thing.

The regions needs urgently private operators other than SNCF, which asks money for bad services.

And, of course, they are NOT interested in private companies running competition in long distance routes. They scrap TGV trainsets and Corail cars that can run for at least 10 more years.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 03:25 PM   #1323
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that's indeed what we see in this incompetitive market. At the other side, the Belgians who also don't tend to have learned about competitive markets, sees some very old trains on its network.

But what you say is normally the thing that happens. Ever since the Dutch network is more about money old trains keep on running for quite a long time. However, that is only on the electric network. The diesels get scrapped at quick pace, a waste of money.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 01:10 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Germany and France desperately need a high-moneyed flashy private competitor. Italo was the very best thing to have happened to railway services in Italy since the dawn of tilting trains from Fiat Ferroviaria.

I mean: a private competitor with muscle, big enough to fend off price wars and withstand them, not a small enterprise with some hand-me-down stock.

That could force SNCF to up its game.
Same happened in Austria with WESTbahn. The service level increased quite dramatically and prices went down. Cannot wait for RegioJet to run trains between Praha and Wien as well.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 04:41 AM   #1325
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High speed Train TGV/EUROSTAR/VIGIRAIL/OUIGO in France

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Old July 2nd, 2017, 12:59 AM   #1326
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Starting tomorrow, only 2 hours between Paris and Bordeaux, which is the same distance as between London and Edinburgh, or between Berlin and Munich, and almost the same distance as between NYC and Montréal.

More importantly, the travel time between Paris and Toulouse, which, beyond Bordeaux, is like London-Inverness beyond Edinburgh, or Berlin-Swiss border beyond Munich, will be cut from currently 5 hours and 35 minutes to 4 hours and 19 minutes starting on Sunday.

The travel time between Paris and Brest at the western end of Brittany will be cut from currently 4 hours and 21 minutes to 3 hours and 33 minutes starting on Sunday.
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Paris-Bordeaux high-speed line to be launched this weekend

Rail News
June 30, 2017



A new high-speed line is set to launch on France’s TGV network this weekend.

On July 2, the new Océane line will open between the French capital and Bordeaux.

Alstom will supply 110 Euroduplex train sets for the service, following an initial deal that was signed in 2007 and subsequent additional orders in 2013 and 2017. The full delivery is expected to be complete by 2020.

[...]

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2017/...-this-weekend/
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 09:50 PM   #1327
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5 heures de retard pour le premier TGV Paris-Toulouse

Le premier TGV Océane, qui devait relier Paris à Toulouse en 4h20, est arrivé avec cinq heures de retard, selon Franceinfo.

Le retard est dû à un Intercités Bordeaux-Nice tombé en panne près d'Agen : le trafic a dû être interrompu dans le sens Bordeaux-Toulouse le temps des réparations.

Résultat, le train parti à 8h59 de Paris a mis 9h19 à arriver à Toulouse.
More: http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/en-di...-toulouse.html
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 09:10 AM   #1328
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One more line in France that does not have bidirectional signalling ?
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 10:36 AM   #1329
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The opening of these lines also provided more information. It was the first occasion for Macron to announce the future policy on high speed rail, and the policy is: "There is no money, so there will be no new lines. We finish the existing commitments, but for the future the money will be for maintenance and everyday trains only".
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 12:36 PM   #1330
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That's sad. He should have at least let Bordeaux-Toulouse go through.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 01:56 PM   #1331
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One more line in France that does not have bidirectional signalling ?
Does it matter? When everything runs as it is suposed to you don't need it. How often is the bi-directionality used? Every feature you add increases building cost and also must be used regularly to test that it still works.


I don't know if they still do that, but in Germany on bi-directional tracks the main direction was usually cut up into smaller blocks and the alternate direction was one large single block, to make signalling simpler.


And I'd rather have a single double-track line (instead of a double single-track) instead of no track at all.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 01:59 PM   #1332
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indeed, at least the line to Toulouse must be a quick win. For the longer term Marseille (or another city) to Nice must be considered in order to reduce travel times to all major regions to less than five, no, four hours from Paris. And it would substantially benefit those regions/cities as commuting over long distances will be easier as well.
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And prohibit the use of agricultural land for new dwellings!
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 02:13 PM   #1333
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Does it matter? When everything runs as it is suposed to you don't need it. How often is the bi-directionality used? Every feature you add increases building cost and also must be used regularly to test that it still works.


I don't know if they still do that, but in Germany on bi-directional tracks the main direction was usually cut up into smaller blocks and the alternate direction was one large single block, to make signalling simpler.


And I'd rather have a single double-track line (instead of a double single-track) instead of no track at all.
Yes it does. It would have allowed to run around the failed train rather than wait for 5 hours. Most networks in Europe see some value in it and implement it, France being the most notorious counter example. In BE all lines have it with most often same signal spacing on both directions. There is a large effort currently going on by Infrabel to eliminate all superfluous equipment and bidirectional signalling is not part of it. It is frequently used, not only in case of perturbations but also for planned parallel moves executed every day. The fact that signalling centres have now à much larger zone under control makes such things much easier, of course.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 09:04 AM   #1334
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If it takes 5 hours to recover a stranded train they should focus on that. Why does it take 5 hours in the first place?

And I doubt if bi-directionality would have helped. Take the Dutch HSL-South for instance, which is bi-directional. If a train gets stranded there the other track may not be used, because safety procedures do not allow the recovery locomotive to be connected when the other line is used.

Consider this: In Japan bi-directional signalling is an exception, because they deem that every bit of unnecesary complexity increases the risk of errors and failures. Also Japanese trains are build with such redundancy that they wouldn't have failed in the first place.

Note that I'm not against bi-directional signalling. When it is actually used, that's a good reason to have it.

I don't like those big modern signalling centers. In the past signallers used to know the location of every train. That allowed them to act in case of disruption. Nowadays computers run the show and the signallers only deal with the exceptions. When the computer fails nobody knows where the trains exactly are anymore and big chaos is the result.

Note the difference with air traffic control: Despite a high level of computer assistance some still use paper strips, just in case the computers stop working.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 10:21 AM   #1335
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Big dispatching centers are a matter of efficiency. Railways would have to employ much more people to run distributed controls all over their network. I also think your comparison is a bit tricky because air transport has a split control between airport-zone traffic and non-airport airspace traffic. The latter is controlled in a rather centralized manner.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #1336
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The opening of these lines also provided more information. It was the first occasion for Macron to announce the future policy on high speed rail, and the policy is: "There is no money, so there will be no new lines. We finish the existing commitments, but for the future the money will be for maintenance and everyday trains only".
M. Macron sounds like a real Parisian already. Outside the Île-de-France, there is no such thing as an everyday train, at least not for the vast majority of the people. There are once-in-a-while trains at best. And these trains are more likely to be TGVs than regional ones. So if he decides to invest in 'everyday train' rather than LGVs then it means nothing less than a shift from the province to the capital. This change in policy won't be too popular in places like Nice or Toulouse, which would have been next to be connected to the LGV network, I reckon.
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Old July 5th, 2017, 03:24 PM   #1337
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indeed, at least the line to Toulouse must be a quick win. For the longer term Marseille (or another city) to Nice must be considered in order to reduce travel times to all major regions to less than five, no, four hours from Paris. And it would substantially benefit those regions/cities as commuting over long distances will be easier as well.
To Nice, part of the high speed line was planned to be used by TER trains, so perhaps there is a chance.

By the way, a section of the Le Mans-Rennes high speed line is also used by TER trains.
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Old July 5th, 2017, 03:26 PM   #1338
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M. Macron sounds like a real Parisian already. Outside the Île-de-France, there is no such thing as an everyday train,
Sorry, but there are a lot of lines with daily trains... so there is an everyday train...

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at least not for the vast majority of the people. There are once-in-a-while trains at best.
But most of them (included those lines with only one train a day) run everyday.

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And these trains are more likely to be TGVs than regional ones. So if he decides to invest in 'everyday train' rather than LGVs then it means nothing less than a shift from the province to the capital. This change in policy won't be too popular in places like Nice or Toulouse, which would have been next to be connected to the LGV network, I reckon.
I don´t agree.
But, as usual, we must wait to see what exactly he wanted to said...
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Old July 5th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #1339
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Sorry, but there are a lot of lines with daily trains... so there is an everyday train...
It seems that France needs some regular interval timetable, etc hourly or half hourly services, today it seems to be rather some trains a day that is not sufficient. But yes let's see what the new approach will bring.
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Old July 5th, 2017, 10:01 PM   #1340
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The population density along the coast seems to be quite high... The LGV-s are coming until Marseille and Montpellier, it seems to be reasonable to bring them until Nice and Perpingnan, the population is there. The extra benefit would come if the regional services could use the LGV-s in those areas, I imagine the classic lines are at capacity already. I think both LGV and classic line would see lot's of usage. Also the hs service Narbonne - Marseille - Nice could be introduced as well, or even Nice - Barcelona - Madrid.
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