High Speed 2

[makita09]

Originally Posted by CalumCookable

If checks were done on board, it would be easy for people to slip through the net. You could just hide in the toilet. Or would the toilet be kept locked for however long the security process takes?

I can see it now, head of security for Eurostar, in front of a Select Committee owing to an increase in immigration, is questioned by the Committee;

"Mr Security person, we have reason to believe they were hiding in the toilets"
"Doh! We didn't think of that!"

[tripleseis]

Linking up HS1 and HS2 wouldn't be just for continental connections, Kent will finally be able to have intercity services linking up with the rest of the UK without passengers having to transfer across London on the tube.

[cle]

Originally Posted by tripleseis

Linking up HS1 and HS2 wouldn't be just for continental connections, Kent will finally be able to have intercity services linking up with the rest of the UK without passengers having to transfer across London on the tube.

I could see Javelins running from Kent to LHR, via OOC - or possibly up to Birmingham if they could just about keep time. A station around the E/W route might help pathing!

But the crucial thing here would be freight during the night. It could be a very useful connection, and especially if there was a g-sep connection from HS1 to the new Thames ports.

[cofgod]

Both border control and customs checks are done on board for St Petersburg – Helsinki train connection with both Russian and Finish officials traveling on the train. Checks are done carriage by carriage (although I suspect there are several teams doing 2-3 carriages each) and toilets are closed for the duration of the check. We are talking about EU-Russia border here and security level is anything but lax. This definitely saves a lot of time for the passengers and can’t be that difficult to replicate here.

[TedStriker]

Am I out of date with the rest of you on this thread or am I the only one who has just seen that latest issue of The Spectator has a story about HS2 which apparently quotes a Tory as saying that the project is "effectively dead"?

[Christopher125]

Originally Posted by Tallsmurf

HS1 currently comes out of tunnel just to the north of St Pancras. HS2 will come out of tunnel just to the north of Euston. Both portals are on the North London line.

Its not that easy - even the current plans require a third, single bore tunnel from OOC to Primrose Hill to access the NLL, then using a slightly widened formation (to allow continental stock) to Camden Road and the HS1 link - conflicting with the NLL through the double track Camden West Jct(?).

The alternative is to tunnel all the way from OOC to (if possible) the station box at Stratford International as it seems there's no room to thread a tunnel and build a portal north of King's Cross - even single bore, thats a [/i]long[/i] tunnel.

I could see Javelins running from Kent to LHR, via OOC - or possibly up to Birmingham if they could just about keep time. A station around the E/W route might help pathing!

While i hate to dampen your enthusiasm, there wont be an east-facing connection from HS2 to Heathrow even if there was enough demand or capacity, which seems unlikely.

Im afraid 140mph javelins wont be suitable for HS2 either, which will be a much busier railway with all trainsets designed for 220mph running.

While freight trains will benefit from more paths on the WCML, i think any suggestion they might use HS2 has been dropped.

Am I out of date with the rest of you on this thread or am I the only one who has just seen that latest issue of The Spectator has a story about HS2 which apparently quotes a Tory as saying that the project is "effectively dead"?

Like the nonsense about its 'ommission' from the Queen's Speech i dont think even the anti's are taking it all that seriously - they're interpreting Greening's caution as a reluctance/scepticism which simply doesnt ring true, especially as it would pave the way for the 3rd runway she's campaigned so hard against, and if i remember rightly they also mention that Queen's Speech non-issue - i get the sense they're clutching at straws, trying to back up the comments from an aggrieved cabinet minister happy to stick the knife in.

The latter is hardly a surprise given current inter-party politics and the opinion of many influential tories about the project due its impact on their backyards. While the project retains the support of the PM, Chancellor, Transport Secretary, the Lib Dems and Labour it really cant be called "effecrively dead".

Chris

[cle]

I was more thinking if the Javelins could access GWML/Crossrail around OOC actually.

[Christopher125]

Originally Posted by cle

I was more thinking if the Javelins could access GWML/Crossrail around OOC actually.

It would require some expensive civil engineering while any service would use up precious paths on the GWML relief lines while adding to congestion on the HS2 link - i really cant see sufficient justification when Heathrow will be served by Crossrail, however nice it might be.

Chris

[Nathan Dawz]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

No differant to changing flights.

Why would you change flights between Manchester and Paris?

[Tallsmurf]

Originally Posted by Christopher125

Its not that easy - even the current plans require a third, single bore tunnel from OOC to Primrose Hill to access the NLL, then using a slightly widened formation (to allow continental stock) to Camden Road and the HS1 link - conflicting with the NLL through the double track Camden West Jct(?).

I had forgotten about the third bore - but I have to question why this is required at all - an underground junction could be built under Primrose Hill, with the HS1-2 link departing only from there.

A bit of Value Engineering needed in my opinion - This looks like a typical pice of gold-plated engineering when a fit-for-purpose solution would have been sufficient.

ps - I am a Civil Engineer - working as a Construction Manager - This is perfectly feasible.

[Malcolm of Kent]

Originally Posted by Tallsmurf

I had forgotten about the third bore - but I have to question why this is required at all - an underground junction could be built under Primrose Hill, with the HS1-2 link departing only from there.

A bit of Value Engineering needed in my opinion - This looks like a typical pice of gold-plated engineering when a fit-for-purpose solution would have been sufficient.

ps - I am a Civil Engineer - working as a Construction Manager - This is perfectly feasible.

Somebody has decided that HS2 shall have no points in tunnels. (The OOC box is big enough not to count). I thought I read some faintly plausible explanation somewhere, but considering how many points in tunnels there are on all other kinds of railways worldwide, it does seem a bit odd. (Something to do with the captive trains I think).

It's specially odd in that by Primrose Hill the trains will not be going particularly fast.

[Tallsmurf]

Originally Posted by Malcolm of Kent

Somebody has decided that HS2 shall have no points in tunnels. (The OOC box is big enough not to count). I thought I read some faintly plausible explanation somewhere, but considering how many points in tunnels there are on all other kinds of railways worldwide, it does seem a bit odd. (Something to do with the captive trains I think).

It's specially odd in that by Primrose Hill the trains will not be going particularly fast.

Like I said - an ideal Value Engineering opportunity - challenge the requirement to omit points in tunnel especialy when you consider that only a handful of trains a day will use this option - A robust signalling regime should be sufficient to mitigate all risks.

[potto]

Provision for Crossrail 2 station needed in HS2 hybrid bill

Crossrail 2 will need to be built before the second phase of HS2 in order to avoid massive congestions problems, according to Transport for London’s managing director for planning.

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/8632036.article

[larven]

How convenient, lobbying for more investment in London at the expense of the North!

Let's just not build anything else anywhere outside the M25 to avoid snarling up the capital.

[Christopher125]

I really doubt the added complication, and therefore cost, of building two underground junctions with a sufficiently high turnout speed to avoid impacting HS2 services, along with two connecting tunnels (one of which will presumably need to pass under or over the other running line) to Primrose Hilll is going to save much money compared to a single bore tunnel built in the same way with the same equipment and personnel as the other two.

Even if a suitable alignment was possible you arent going to reduce the length of tunnel that much, what you do dig will be more complicated than a single bore with no underground junctions, you'll add a maintenance burden with the two underground junctions while losing the flexibility that an 'island' between HS1/NLL/Primrose Hill line and HS2 long enough to hold a 400m train provides.

Chris

[Tallsmurf]

Chris, I hear what you are saying - but would like to see this properly costed.

[makita09]

justine greening interviewed on bbc has categorically stated she and the chancellor are behind hs2, obviously in response to the recent nonsense media reports.

[makita09]

Originally Posted by Tallsmurf

Like I said - an ideal Value Engineering opportunity - challenge the requirement to omit points in tunnel especialy when you consider that only a handful of trains a day will use this option - A robust signalling regime should be sufficient to mitigate all risks.

signalling cant mitigate for points failures though, i should imagine sending in a team to fix a point is less safe and more problematic if the points are in a tunnel. an entire procedure would need to be drawn up i imagine - us living in such a beaurocratic society after all.

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by makita09

justine greening interviewed on bbc has categorically stated she and the chancellor are behind hs2, obviously in response to the recent nonsense media reports.

Isnt 'Behind' as in 'Im behind you, turn around' the new Conservative euphemism for U-Turn?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...urns-full-list

[makita09]

Perhaps, but they were my words, not hers, she just said 'yes' but I forget the wording of the question.