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Old December 23rd, 2006, 07:23 PM   #1
bule
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SPAIN | Railways

Talgo 200 Madrid-Málaga.using the new truck Cordoba-Málaga arriving at the new Puente Genil Station








The new truck start at this point of the HSL Madrid-Sevilla



The VII and XXI century toghether



New Station Antequera-Sta.Ana.HSL Cordoba-Málaga


Last edited by bule; January 11th, 2007 at 09:34 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 09:29 PM   #2
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Congratulations to Spain on the development of the high-speed rail network. According to a recent article in Technology Review, "Spain is rapidly expanding its high-speed rail service, becoming one of most connected countries in the world." The article can be found at:

http://www.technologyreview.com/micr...ain/index.aspx

The network that is being built is quite remarkable:

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Old December 24th, 2006, 12:48 PM   #3
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Again, this is off-topic for Subways and Urban Transport - moderators, please can we have a Railways subforum? There are easily enough threads to make it viable...
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Old December 24th, 2006, 04:22 PM   #4
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How fast must the train run to be considered a High Speed Train in Spain? >200 km/h? But anyway, Spain's HSL network (existing & under const./planned) is remarkable
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Old December 24th, 2006, 04:29 PM   #5
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updated map of the spanish HST network in December 2006



Green lines : on service
Yellow lines: U/C
Red lines: planned
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Old December 24th, 2006, 04:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slawek15 View Post
How fast must the train run to be considered a High Speed Train in Spain? >200 km/h? But anyway, Spain's HSL network (existing & under const./planned) is remarkable
220 km/h. The actual AVE (Alta Velocidad Española - Spanish High Speed) speed is 280 km/h.

In 2008 the speed will be 350 km/h with ERTMS level 2.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 08:30 PM   #7
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this map isn't correct. Or, at least, it would be wondered if the red lines will be rebuilt as hi-speed ones. Probably it shows simply the lines designed to be upgraded to a higher level than today (with things such electification, new signal system, conversion to standard gauge, maybe the rising of speed limits of a few km/h), bus surely not to HSLs.

An example: the line Catalayud-Soria, between Madrid and Zaragoza. Soria has only 40.000 inhabitants, do you think really that an HSL will reach it? It's big enough to make a railway useful, but a 350 km/h one surely not.

Here you can find a map of the actual network to compare with:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps...-peninsula.php

(existing HSL are electrified with 25 kV 50 Hz AC, so here they are drawn in dark blue)
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Old December 24th, 2006, 09:40 PM   #8
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The following are some images from the Technology Revew article on the Spanish high-speed rail network < http://www.technologyreview.com/micr...ain/index.aspx >:


In addition to innovating High Speed trains, CAF is an industry leader in the technological advancement of commuter trains like CIVIA (pictured), that uses COSMOS, an integrated control and command system.


By 2020, Spain plans to have 10,000 km of high speed rail completed, shooting the country up to become one of the top in the world in terms of total high speed rail on the ground.


The first high speed line between Madrid and Seville, completed in 1992, reduced travel time from six hours to two hours and twenty minutes.


According to Spanish government officials, rail provides the best means to increase economic development in outlying areas of the country while decreasing the use of fossil fuel and resulting greenhouse gas emissions.


Spanish construction companies, with years of experience designing and building the necessary infrastructure for rail, are now taking their expertise overseas in countries such as the UK, Mexico, and China.


Spanish companies have developed a gauge-changing mechanism that realigns wheels on tracks of different widths (for instance, at the border between countries). Thus, a change that in the past took up to an hour today takes only about four seconds.


Spanish companies have developed tilting technologies, helping trains navigate curves in the line with greater speed, comfort and safety.


The new high speed line between Madrid and Barcelona will cut travel time from six and a half hours down to two and a half.


Tunnels are crucial in Spain, the second most mountainous country in Europe. Spain is currently building one of the longest rail tunnels in the world through the mountains north of Madrid.


Advances and standardization of signaling technology allow trains to run at higher speeds and cross international borders without changing equipment.


The new Spanish control system automates the transmission of all data relevant to the movement of the trains and immediately notifies everyone involved, from operators in control center and in stations along the lines, to passengers waiting for trains to arrive and depart.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 10:04 PM   #9
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It's becoming such an impressive system. What are the costs of the system? Who's been paying for this? The government? Private companies? The EU?

I absolutely hate the noses of these trains though. But it's seriously developing at an amazing speed.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 11:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
this map isn't correct. Or, at least, it would be wondered if the red lines will be rebuilt as hi-speed ones. Probably it shows simply the lines designed to be upgraded to a higher level than today (with things such electification, new signal system, conversion to standard gauge, maybe the rising of speed limits of a few km/h), bus surely not to HSLs.

An example: the line Catalayud-Soria, between Madrid and Zaragoza. Soria has only 40.000 inhabitants, do you think really that an HSL will reach it? It's big enough to make a railway useful, but a 350 km/h one surely not.

Here you can find a map of the actual network to compare with:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps...-peninsula.php

(existing HSL are electrified with 25 kV 50 Hz AC, so here they are drawn in dark blue)
I think the both most important politic parties are awared about the importance of spreading the high speed railway, and the goverment is betting for that. So im sure about it.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 12:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
this map isn't correct. Or, at least, it would be wondered if the red lines will be rebuilt as hi-speed ones. Probably it shows simply the lines designed to be upgraded to a higher level than today (with things such electification, new signal system, conversion to standard gauge, maybe the rising of speed limits of a few km/h), bus surely not to HSLs.

An example: the line Catalayud-Soria, between Madrid and Zaragoza. Soria has only 40.000 inhabitants, do you think really that an HSL will reach it? It's big enough to make a railway useful, but a 350 km/h one surely not.
This map is correct, as it is included in PEIT (Strategic Infrastructures and Transport Plan). You can check it here in English or Spanish.

All the lines "planned" must be built in 2020, although their speed won't be the same (Calatayud-Soria would be over 200 km/h but of course it's no necessary a 300km/h-line like in Madrid-Barcelona for example).
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Old December 25th, 2006, 12:21 AM   #12
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200 km/h are not really "high speed", even if they could be done for some streches over medium-importance lines (Palencia-Santander). As I can see on Trainspotting-Bukkes, Sevilla-Cadiz andSevilla-Granada lines are being double-tracked, this is a good example and (in my huble opinion) could and should be done, but I don't call it "hisgh-speed line".

There is really the need of a 200 km/h railway between Galicia, Asturias and Santander? Between Zaragoza, Teruel and Valencia? Or between Catalayud and Soria?

I think that the priority is the conversion of the existing lines to standard gauge. Maybe this could be done in the same time with the improvements (other than electrification, this could be done double-tracking the line with small diversions).

New 300 km/h lines could be useful between Madrid and Galicia, Valladolid and Irun/hendaye and France, Madrid and Lisboa, maybe to Murcia.

Last edited by Coccodrillo; December 25th, 2006 at 12:26 AM.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 12:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
200 km/h are not really "high speed", even if they could be done for some streches over medium-importance lines (Palencia-Santander).

There is really the need of a 200 km/h railway between Galicia, Asturias and Santander? Between Zaragoza, Teruel and Valencia? Or between Catalayud and Soria?

I think that the priority is the conversion of the existing lines to standard gauge. Maybe this could be done in the same time with the improvements (other than electrification, this could be done double-tracking the line with small diversions).
Well, it's a semantic issue but IMO 200km/h can be considered HS.

The "Cantabric AVE" (Galicia-Asturias-Cantabria-País Vasco) is a promise of the Prime Minister, as well as other not-prioritary lines. I live in Asturias and the current line is exasperating.

Now people think all the lines will be done by 2020, but if in the future the Spanish economy don't keep growing so fast some planned lines could be delayed. HS Train is the mayor bet of the goverment in terms of infraestructure.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 02:00 AM   #14
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one of the problems of Spain is its altittude respect to sea level. It's the second country in Europe (first is switzeland) in altittude average (Madrid is 700m over the sea level, and Avila or Soria are over 1200m.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 11:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
The "Cantabric AVE" (Galicia-Asturias-Cantabria-País Vasco) is a promise of the Prime Minister, as well as other not-prioritary lines. I live in Asturias and the current line is exasperating.
This summer I've travelled all the FEVE network, its beautiful but really slow

I remember that between León and Bilbao there is only one train per day, that takes 7 hours to do the trip. The other lines are similar.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 02:33 PM   #16
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This summer I've travelled all the FEVE network, its beautiful but really slow

I remember that between León and Bilbao there is only one train per day, that takes 7 hours to do the trip. The other lines are similar.
yep, it's awful. Only if you have time enough and want enjoying your travel, FEVE is a good option. But it goes so slowly......
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Old December 26th, 2006, 04:15 AM   #17
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In European Union, high speed is, at least, an average of 200kph-250kph.

About top speed, we can find 250kph, 280kph, 300kph, 320kph and 350kph in Spain next year.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 08:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
In European Union, high speed is, at least, an average of 200kph-250kph.

About top speed, we can find 250kph, 280kph, 300kph, 320kph and 350kph in Spain next year.


It's nice to know that Spain is always moving forwards.

Saludos!
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Old December 26th, 2006, 10:11 PM   #19
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These are the diferent models of HST Running in Spain.
Siemens ICE-350.S-103 Velaro

Talgo-350.S-102 Pato (foto SanLucar Playa)

Alstom S-101 (foto Alfonso Gascón Martin)

CAF.S-120.Alvia (foto Alberto Peña)

Talgo S-130

Alstom-Caf S-104
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Old December 28th, 2006, 12:59 AM   #20
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tHANKS
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