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Old December 9th, 2013, 01:28 PM   #1981
alserrod
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Soria is the second province capital with less population in Spain and all cities where trains call are really small.
It is the huge problem in Spain, except in some cases, all population is in the coast and Madrid.

Having several lines like this one is to decide between investing in nowhere or isolation somewhere. It is like building an airport in an island with 10.000 people only (with ferry service). Do they need it?. It's matter of opinion. As well as Soria railway link.

Anyway, service could be improved. I would like to know what about having service only FROM the classic Madrid-Zaragoza line to Soria with three shuttle connections made by only one train (less maintenance).


Furthermore, in Soria there is no "railway culture" due to few services, even if it had four possible destinations in the past.

Why don't they make an alliance with a bus service to link in Calatayud through Barcelona via HSR?. There are only 90 km and other alliances with bus service have been made.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 02:51 PM   #1982
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Are there freigfht trains on the line to Soria?
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Old December 9th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post
Are there freigfht trains on the line to Soria?
Not that I know. Soria is a bit "our Basilicata", if you know what I mean.
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Old December 9th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #1984
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Why was it singled out for major renovations then? Was it in worse condition than other other secondary lines in Spain?
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Old December 10th, 2013, 01:11 AM   #1985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Why was it singled out for major renovations then?
It had been planned before the crisis, the works had already started by then, but they were postponed because of the crisis, austerity and etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Was it in worse condition than other secondary lines in Spain?
Yes.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 01:20 AM   #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Why was it singled out for major renovations then? Was it in worse condition than other other secondary lines in Spain?
Political reasons, this is the first railway in Spain I would close down to save money. It serve Soria 40000 inh and Almanzan 6000 inh. It would probably be cheaper to pay for free taxi rides for all the users of this railway than keep it open. It is a total waste of resources.

Unfortunately, in Spain every provincial capital has to be connected to Madrid, no matter how small it is, it is just ridiculous. At least they don't have an airport in Soria, although I'm sure they have considered it
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Old December 10th, 2013, 02:02 AM   #1987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Political reasons, this is the first railway in Spain I would close down to save money. It serve Soria 40000 inh and Almanzan 6000 inh. It would probably be cheaper to pay for free taxi rides for all the users of this railway than keep it open. It is a total waste of resources.

Unfortunately, in Spain every provincial capital has to be connected to Madrid, no matter how small it is, it is just ridiculous. At least they don't have an airport in Soria, although I'm sure they have considered it
Not every head of province is connected to Madrid. Thought you ought to know.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 10:04 AM   #1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Not that I know. Soria is a bit "our Basilicata", if you know what I mean.
I understood what you meant, but I think the most suitable analogy is with italian cities like Isernia or Sondrio; Basilicata is a Region comparable with La Rioja.

Thank you for your answer!
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Old December 10th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Political reasons, this is the first railway in Spain I would close down to save money. It serve Soria 40000 inh and Almanzan 6000 inh. It would probably be cheaper to pay for free taxi rides for all the users of this railway than keep it open. It is a total waste of resources.

Unfortunately, in Spain every provincial capital has to be connected to Madrid, no matter how small it is, it is just ridiculous. At least they don't have an airport in Soria, although I'm sure they have considered it
They could, of course... but there are other things to have in consideration.

Why is there a cool bus service between Madrid and Soria, taking similar time and similar fares?. Just only because frequencies. This is why I honestly think that they could offer a most frequent service with "less kilometres". Just with a shuttle train and avoid trains with no passengers. You use a current regional train from Arcos de Jalon, make a link on timetables and offer three instead of two daily trains.

Less trains running in the whole network and a bigger offer.


Furthermore it is real that no population is there but... in a ring over 80 km from Madrid and up to 200 km there is no population never mind where you go. Some exceptions but completely deserted.

Not only a railway policy is required but a whole territory policy should apply.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #1990
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Another question

I found a video like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8cowOgwVso

Is related to a line, I suppose, named Central de Aragòn.
The questions are:
  • Where is located and which cities are connected by this line?
  • Which type of traffic is prevalent on the line, passengers or freight?
  • How many trains per day are there?

To much questions...
Thank you in advance!
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Old December 10th, 2013, 11:42 AM   #1991
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It was a company to manage one line from Sagunto to Calatayud (from Calatayud to Soria, Burgos and Cidad Dosante, its natural way there was another company) and a branch from Caminreal to Zaragoza.

It dissappeared when all companies (except FEVE) were joined into Renfe.

Today Caminreal-Calatayud is closed to traffic (and to my best knowledge, almost impossible to re-open) and Sagunto-Caminreal Caminreal-Zaragoza remains open.

Nowadays there are three daily Valencia-Zaragoza (and vv), a Valencia-Teruel (not daily), a Teruel-Zaragoza (daily) which almost makes four trains per direction daily.
Furthermore, at least one freight daily too.

It is possible to buy a link-ticket Valencia-Bilbao with one of this trains and shuttle to an Alvia Barcelona-Bilbao at Zaragoza with just 15-ish minutes delay
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Old December 10th, 2013, 11:54 AM   #1992
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Thank you very much for the answer, I'm going to study the map to better understand where is located the line.

Due to the variety of the freight companies like Logitren, Comsa or Continental Rail, It seemed to me that there was much more freight traffic.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #1993
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It is not good for freight. It is not electrified and one track only. Some stations where trains could cross themselves are really small (about 300m only) and if you want to export any good to Valencia port you would need a longer train to save costs.
Furthermore, departing from Valencia and approaching to Teruel there is a mountain pass (and a station in the own pass, the highest in the region of Aragon, higher than Canfranc station). That means "climbing" from 0m to 1200ish m in about 100 km. Not good for freight at all.

Any train is quite cheaper to make a Zaragoza-Valencia via Tarragona rather than via Teruel even if shorter.

If only line would be electrified we could think in more traffic.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #1994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
It was a company to manage one line from Sagunto to Calatayud (from Calatayud to Soria, Burgos and Cidad Dosante, its natural way there was another company) and a branch from Caminreal to Zaragoza.
The Central de Aragón line didn´t run till Sagunto, but till Valencia, through a different line tan the current one, it ran parallel to the Tarragona-Valencia and the Valencia-Rafelbunyol lines (and located between the both of them). That stretch was closed in 1985.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
It dissappeared when all companies (except FEVE) were joined into Renfe.
Not exactly: in 1941 Renfe was created by the nationalization of all the private Iberian-gauge railways plus one metric-gauge line. Many other narrow and standard gauge lines (but not all of them, some stood private) became part of EFE, which later would change its name to FEVE, nowadays a part of Renfe and Adif.

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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Furthermore, departing from Valencia and approaching to Teruel there is a mountain pass.
Not one, but two. The Puerto Escandón pass (between Teruel and Rubielos de Mora), and the Ragudo pass (between Rubielos de Mora and Segorbe -or Sagunto-). It is more of an "M-looking" line, rather than an "A-looking" line.
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Last edited by 437.001; December 10th, 2013 at 07:22 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 07:23 PM   #1995
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Welll I said only Escandon to sum up. Looking from Teruel it is the only important pass and looking from Valencia it is the Ragudo area where it is harder for freight. Maybe due to Escandon has a station it is most known.
But... the most importan problem is obviously Ragudo.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #1996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Welll I said only Escandon to sum up. Looking from Teruel it is the only important pass and looking from Valencia it is the Ragudo area where it is harder for freight. Maybe due to Escandon has a station it is most known.
But... the most importan problem is obviously Ragudo.
Both, fella. The section Teruel-Caparrates-Puerto Escandon isn´t precisely soft... just as much as Jérica-Caudiel-Barracas, if not more.
And the section Puerto Escandon-Barracas isn´t flat at all, either.
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Old December 10th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #1997
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where section has more inclination is there. Thus, it is where the new project has the longest tunnels.

Anyways, the whole traject is a really nightmare. When a second railway was built for Iron mines, wasn't easy at all too.
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Old December 11th, 2013, 05:18 PM   #1998
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Seville-Cádiz line.
Section Utrera-Lebrija.
Double-tracking and upgrade works.

Pictures taken on December 2, 2013.

Quote:
Originally Posted by javi el geo View Post
(translated into English by 437.001)

Images taken from an overpass (which replaces an old level crossing), some 4km south of Utrera. Km38, more or less.

Looking towards Las Cabezas, Lebrija and Cadiz:

[IMG]http://i44.************/2w55661.jpg[/IMG]



Looking towards Utrera and Seville:

[IMG]http://i40.************/wkfn8j.jpg[/IMG]



The ballast ends right under the bridge:

[IMG]http://i43.************/2zz6mts.jpg[/IMG]



Looking towards Las Cabezas, Lebrija and Cadiz:

[IMG]http://i44.************/2nlfdr4.jpg[/IMG]



Sleepers. They´re able for a gauge change. Looks like they´re made in Puente Genil (Cordoba province):

[IMG]http://i39.************/qnwrxe.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.************/2hycvtw.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.************/i4g3eq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i42.************/6hm7pw.jpg[/IMG]
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Old December 11th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #1999
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News:

This Friday will be inaugurated the new Puerto Real station on the Seville-Cadiz line, as a part of the upgrade of this line, which includes double-tracking and enabling it for speeds up to 220km/h.
The Puerto Real station was the only remaining sector in single track between Jerez de la Frontera and Cadiz.
This will improve the reliability of the Cercanías commuter service between Cadiz and Jerez de la Frontera, as well as of course all the other rail services on this line reaching Cadiz (Alvia, MD).
The new Puerto Real station is underground, it has two tracks with side platforms, and it is adapted for the disabled (lifts, escalators).
These works had started long ago, but had been halted because of the crisis.

Works on the upgrade of the line between Jerez de la Frontera and Utrera keep on going (see more in the post just above).
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Old December 11th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #2000
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Actually what will be the main benefits of this upgrading work? Significant reduction in travel time between Sevilla and Cadiz? Capacity for more trains? New suburban services perhaps?
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