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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:31 AM   #2081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
The classic railway services to Ourense via Guillarei and Ribadavia, and to Porto, not to talk about a potential Cercanías (commuter) service.

Regional rail exists too, you know...
Of course and it's very important, but wouldn't it be possible to run Cercanias on the new line? It's not going to be that busy with long distance trains and the new line still touches the key towns between Vigo and Santiago (right?).

As for Porto I looked on google maps when you posted that picture with the new alignment and it looked to me that the tunnel ends up somewhere a bit before the current line branches off to the South near Redondela. Was I wrong about that and the new tunnel is not actually usable for services to Porto? That would be a pity...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:39 AM   #2082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
The classic railway services to Ourense via Guillarei and Ribadavia, and to Porto, not to talk about a potential Cercanías (commuter) service.

Regional rail exists too, you know...
Having separate stations for local and long distance services reduces attractiveness of both. I can understand that with the new station on a standard gauge line broad gauge trains must go elsewhere, but it is not an ideal solutions.

Vigo's new stations has 6 tracks, which are certainly well enough for the traffic that both Guixar and Urzaiz stations. Maybe one could think of sending all trains to the new station using the old line for tram-trains (and freight traisn to the harbour), or linking Urzaiz and Guixar with a people mover or similar. Once the 1668 mm gauge will be a thing for a museum, obviously.

By the way, wasn't there a project to build a tunnel also on the other side of the new stations, making a sort of loop to avoid reversal of trains like Porto-Vigo-Santiago?

********

What was the path of the line of Torrevieja? From Alicante to Caratgena via the coast?

edit: posted together with Sunfuns
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:41 AM   #2083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Of course and it's very important, but wouldn't it be possible to run Cercanias on the new line?
Of course NOT.

A commuter train is supposed to be based in proximity services, with frequent stations.

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It's not going to be that busy with long distance trains...
That´s secondary.

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
...and the new line still touches the key towns between Vigo and Santiago (right?).
Wrong.

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
As for Porto I looked on google maps when you posted that picture with the new alignment and it looked to me that the tunnel ends up somewhere a bit before the current line branches off to the South near Redondela.
They´re supposed to build an even longer tunnel instead, from the other end of Vigo-Urzaiz station straight into Porriño, then Valença do Minho.

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Was I wrong about that and the new tunnel is not actually usable for services to Porto? That would be a pity...
I actually am totally against that.

Besides, sooner or later the line to Santiago will be switched to stantard gauge, so there should be a means of escape for the Iberian freight and passenger rail. That´s why.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:46 AM   #2084
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Having separate stations for local and long distance services reduces attractiveness of both. I can understand that with the new station on a standard gauge line broad gauge trains must go elsewhere, but it is not an ideal solutions.
Not only is it not ideal, but it is a ****-up.

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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Vigo's new stations has 6 tracks, which are certainly well enough for the traffic that both Guixar and Urzaiz stations. Maybe one could think of sending all trains to the new station using the old line for tram-trains (and freight traisn to the harbour), or linking Urzaiz and Guixar with a people mover or similar. Once the 1668 mm gauge will be a thing for a museum, obviously.
And what about creating a commuter rail service, then?

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By the way, wasn't there a project to build a tunnel also on the other side of the new stations, making a sort of loop to avoid reversal of trains like Porto-Vigo-Santiago?
I just answered to that.

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What was the path of the line of Torrevieja? From Alicante to Cartagena via the coast?
From Albatera-Catral station to Torrevieja.
Old intermediate stations were Almoradí-Dolores, Rojales-Benijófar, and Las Moreras.
Part of the old platform still exists, and another part has been turned into a motorway, which could easily be enlarged to make room for a double track in the middle.

That is the easiest option, and would assure ridership since it would link Alicante to Torrevieja via Elche, thus the three most populated cities in the province.
All this, while also allowing a direct link to the HSL (Torrevieja IS Madrid´s main beach ), so a direct seasonal Alvia Madrid-Torrevieja would be compulsory.
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Last edited by 437.001; January 2nd, 2014 at 01:51 AM.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:51 AM   #2085
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I actually am totally against that.

Besides, sooner or later the line to Santiago will be switched to stantard gauge, so there should be a means of escape for the Iberian freight and passenger rail. That´s why.
Ok, fair point about not using the new line for Cercanias but I don't really get why you are against using the new station for medium distance service to Porto. The new tunnel you are talking about probably won't be built in any immediate time scale and the current one would make the service slightly faster and provide easier connections...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:59 AM   #2086
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for the time being, different gauge...

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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
And what about creating a commuter rail service, then?
Good idea, so to at least serve traffic to Vigo and to save and improve the existing infrastructure. Still, a way to link both stations should be found...

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Besides, sooner or later the line to Santiago will be switched to stantard gauge, so there should be a means of escape for the Iberian freight and passenger rail. That´s why.
All of the Iberian peninsula will - or at least I hope...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:13 AM   #2087
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Ok, fair point about not using the new line for Cercanias but I don't really get why you are against using the new station for medium distance service to Porto. The new tunnel you are talking about probably won't be built in any immediate time scale and the current one would make the service slightly faster and provide easier connections...
I get what you say, buit I just don´t think it will be done shortly, in particular since I see that it will take longer to change the gauge on the classic line, and Portugal will probably take a little longer to do it than us.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:14 AM   #2088
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Quote:
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Good idea, so to at least serve traffic to Vigo and to save and improve the existing infrastructure. Still, a way to link both stations should be found...
In fact, there USED to be a link between both stations... a link that Basel also has between the Elsasser Bahnhof and the Badischer Bahnhof.

Die Strassenbahn...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:25 AM   #2089
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The stations are quite close physically in Vigo, aren't they? In Basel it's 12 min by tram or ca 40 min walking (I've done that).

The new line will initially be in broad gauge, isn't that so? At least until the entire Galicia HSL is finished...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:33 AM   #2090
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The stations are quite close physically in Vigo, aren't they? In Basel it's 12 min by tram or ca 40 min walking (I've done that).
They´re much closer than in Basel, but Vigo is even steeper than Basel.
In Vigo it´s 12 min down the hill (Urzáiz to Guixar), but the other way around can take you much, much longer...

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The new line will initially be in broad gauge, isn't that so? At least until the entire Galicia HSL is finished...
It won´t be that long till it opens. It´s advancing crazily fast, as you know via the stuff I post.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:47 AM   #2091
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They´re much closer than in Basel, but Vigo is even steeper than Basel.
In Vigo it´s 12 min down the hill (Urzáiz to Guixar), but the other way around can take you much, much longer...
Basel isn't steep at all, dozens of cities in Europe are much steeper than us. 12 min downhill is a significant distance...

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It won´t be that long till it opens. It´s advancing crazily fast, as you know via the stuff I post.
Indeed, but it would be much more useful to either have a through service from Porto to A Coruna or have an easy connection in Vigo. A long walk uphill won't do it...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 03:15 AM   #2092
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But anyway, given that there will be a link at Arcade station (that could be electrified, although it´s not planned -or not yet), I don´t see it as any big problema for any potential Corunna-Santiago-Pontevedra-Vigo Guixar-Porto-Coimbra-Lisbon service, if such a thing were to exist.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 11:11 AM   #2093
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From Redondela a third, central, track leaves from the centre. Apparently it is the ancient path of the line to Madrid and Protugal. Why was it replaced?

https://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Arcade...o,+Spagna&z=17
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:56 PM   #2094
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Reopening of the railway to Torrevieja will never happen, the people living along the corridor will never accept having their comunities cut in half, there wil be protests and more protests until the plans are abandoned. Some kind of urban light rail is probably more realistic.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 04:50 PM   #2095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
From Redondela a third, central, track leaves from the centre. Apparently it is the ancient path of the line to Madrid and Protugal. Why was it replaced?
Apparently, and if I´m not misinformed, there was something with the old viaduct or a trench wich were not very stable.

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Reopening of the railway to Torrevieja will never happen, the people living along the corridor will never accept having their comunities cut in half, there wil be protests and more protests until the plans are abandoned. Some kind of urban light rail is probably more realistic.
The town council of Torrevieja wants to, after the neighbours and local associations demanded it once and again... it was the town council who historically didn´t want to...

As for communities cut in half, there´s none that could be affected (and if you mean what and where I believe you mean, a simple deviation would largely suffice).

As for the future new station at Torrevieja... I guess that would have to be underground and possibly in a different location than the historical one (pity, because the old one had a fabulous location), but since I´m not all that well-informed, I´ll have to do a bit of research...
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:30 AM   #2096
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A vintage photo:

Barcelona-Vilanova depot, in the 1960s/70s.

Old Barcelona-Vilanova was the depot for Barcelona-Vilanova station, commonly known nowadays as Barcelona-Estació del Nord and used now as a long-distance bus station.
It was closed more or less when Barcelona-Sants station opened as a big station.
It had an underground section now known as Arc de Triomf, obviously still in service and very busy.

On the image we can see four class 436/437/438 EMUs (I wonder if 437.001 must be one of the four?), plus a class 270 loco, from 1928.

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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:06 AM   #2097
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Barcelona-Estació de França station.

Trains:

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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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Old January 3rd, 2014, 03:10 AM   #2098
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Madrid-Atocha station.

10 minutes during the morning rush hour compressed into 2min50sec.
Just below the cam there are the commuter trains (Cercanías).
The AVE are seen on the upper right side of the image (half-hidden by the modern trainshed on the right):

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Old January 3rd, 2014, 08:58 PM   #2099
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Zaragoza-Bilbao line.
Logroño station.


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Old January 3rd, 2014, 10:06 PM   #2100
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Zaragoza-Bilbao line. Logroño station.
I still don't understand how did Logroño manage to get that station without being served by HSR, while other more important stations (in terms of number of trains and passengers), such as Valladolid, León or Valencia must survive with their old stations or just provisory buildings.
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