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Old August 9th, 2007, 02:57 PM   #221
Bitxofo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
Are you sure? I thought it wouldn't be that fast at first... and if the top speed is going to be 300 km/h insteadof 350 km/h I'm afraid it might take like 3 hours finally.
A Velaro train reached 407 km/h in the tests of the line.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 03:35 PM   #222
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This train will solve my problem about visiting Barcelona. This city has usually few hotels available and they are either far away from the center or dumps. On the other hand Madrid has lots of 4-star hotels at affordable prices. Thanks to AVE I’ ll be able to pop out to Barcelona for a few hours for the basic sightseeing and return to Madrid on the same day!
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Old August 9th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
From Barcelona to Madrid in 2 hours 30 min. since December the 22nd, 2007!!
Highly unlikely on December 22nd 2007. The issue is not the maximum operating speed of the train which permits a theoretical journey time of 2:30.

The problem is that this is a new line and the Spanish Infrastructure authority has never open a new line at the expected operational speed. They always start out with slower speed the ensure that the track and the signaling are all operating within their expected capacity and over time, in a few cases years, they slowly raise the speed limit. I will be studying the December time table with great interest. I expect that there will be one or two trains scheduled for slightly less than three hours in December with most trains running at about 3 hours 15 minutes at first.

By the end of next year, maybe the December 2008 timetable we will probably sees one or two trains operating at 2:30.

Further, Renefe has a policy of refunds when trains run late and to avoid paying to many refunds they tend to actually schedule the AVE trains to Seville at considerably less speed than their potential speed.
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Last edited by Trainman Dave; August 9th, 2007 at 04:30 PM.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:44 PM   #224
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Well, it may be possible to reach Barcelona from Madrid in around 2 hours and a half, perhaps 2:45 since December 22nd 2007 in direct services using the existing by-passes. Remember that not all the line is brand new: Madrid-Camp de Tarragona stretch allows trains to run at 300km/h since May 7th 2007. When the first part of the line was opened (Madrid-Zaragoza-Lérida), trains ran at 200km/h because ERTMS was not ready to go, so ASFA was used instead; later on at 250 testing new ERTMS, then at 280, and finally at 300km/h. However, Lérida-Camp de Tarragona did not follow this process: it was opened at a operating speed of 200km/h and bumped up all together with Madrid-Zaragoza-Lérida to 300km/h. So perhaps, Adif, may set a different opening speed for Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona Sants as it has gained confidence with the european signalling system. In addition, Camp de Tarragona-Sant Boi is already on tests since some time ago I believe, resting only around 10km to reach Barcelona Sants, where the tracks aren't laid out yet.
Well, AVE to Seville doesn't operate "at a considerably less speed" than its potential speed. It takes on direct services 2:15 and its top speed its 300Km/h. It isn't running at its full potential, but Madrid-Seville line isn't as good as these ones that are opening in November-December. It is already 15 years old and it has some parts where trains can't go faster than 80km/h as it may be around Puertollano, where there is a very closed turn for HS standards.
I saw some great graphs comparing Madrid-Seville and Madrid-Camp de Tarragona lines in terms of speed. Madrid-Tarragona was way more "stable" with less peaks.

Last edited by growingup; August 9th, 2007 at 05:50 PM.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 06:19 PM   #225
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HSL Madrid-Sevilla was originally planed a new railroad corridor -not HSL- from Madrid to Andalusia in wide gauge (NAFA), but it was modified and upgraded before being built in order to become a HSL in UIC gauge. That's why HSL Madrid-Sevilla doesn't allow top speeds permanently.

Renfe has a policy of refunds in case of delay, but Renfe also gives in its schedules extra-time to trains in order to avoid delays. In other words, usually AVE trains arrive a few minutes before the official timtable. So, probably you never will see a official timetible with an AVE between Madrid and Barcelona operated at 2:30 while top speed is 300 km/h, but you can maybe arrive before the official time and it can be finally 2:30 of journey.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 12:39 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
This train will solve my problem about visiting Barcelona. This city has usually few hotels available and they are either far away from the center or dumps. On the other hand Madrid has lots of 4-star hotels at affordable prices. Thanks to AVE I’ ll be able to pop out to Barcelona for a few hours for the basic sightseeing and return to Madrid on the same day!
What an idiot comment!

Den katalavenos, file mou...

And something else: each one way ticket from MAD to BCN will cost 100 euros.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 10th, 2007, 12:58 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
And something else: each one way ticket from MAD to BCN will cost 100 euros.
They have already told you it's false in the Spanish forum.

Prices will be from 90€ to 220€ for one return ticket.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 01:13 AM   #228
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Price is not an issue for someone who loves high speed trains. Judging from the pictures, AVE looks very comfortable inside, just as the German ICE. The other option for me is the route Madrid-Seville which costs only 72 Euros one way. But that line is rather old (1992) and I guess trains shake a lot more than on the newer lines. As you know it was Felipe Gonzalez’s present to his native city!
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Old August 10th, 2007, 03:38 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
They have already told you it's false in the Spanish forum.

Prices will be from 90€ to 220€ for one return ticket.
Cheap prices when you book 2 or 3 months in advance.
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Εγώ είμαι ο Νταβόρ!!
David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 10th, 2007, 11:49 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
This train will solve my problem about visiting Barcelona. This city has usually few hotels available and they are either far away from the center or dumps. On the other hand Madrid has lots of 4-star hotels at affordable prices. Thanks to AVE I’ ll be able to pop out to Barcelona for a few hours for the basic sightseeing and return to Madrid on the same day!
When did you visit Barcelona last time, 1980? You know there are now 290 hotels and more than 1/3 of them are 4*, and 20 are 5*. Together they have some 27000+ hotelrooms. And that is only for the city, if you include the hotels to the north and south then you have some 800 hotels with 80000+ hotelrooms to choose from. Hardly what I call few hotels.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
When did you visit Barcelona last time, 1980? You know there are now 290 hotels and more than 1/3 of them are 4*, and 20 are 5*. Together they have some 27000+ hotelrooms. And that is only for the city, if you include the hotels to the north and south then you have some 800 hotels with 80000+ hotelrooms to choose from. Hardly what I call few hotels.
There may be many hotels, but they are booked up several months in advance. Since I don’t like arranging my holidays too early, every time I searched in a well known on-line agency I did not find anything interesting at a logical price. On the contrary, hotels in Madrid are usually available and many of them are centrally located.
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Old August 10th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastyathenian View Post
There may be many hotels, but they are booked up several months in advance. Since I don’t like arranging my holidays too early, every time I searched in a well known on-line agency I did not find anything interesting at a logical price. On the contrary, hotels in Madrid are usually available and many of them are centrally located.
Completely FALSE!

I work for the Tourist Office and we always have hotels available, and we get special rates as 70€ por 3 stars, 80€ for 4 stars and 100€ for 5 stars hotels. This price is per double room, per night.
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Εγώ είμαι ο Νταβόρ!!
David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 18th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post


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Old August 18th, 2007, 02:31 PM   #234
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That was the chart I was talking about... xD. Thanks arriaca.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 04:18 PM   #235
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De nada. Dáselas a Cicerón que lo posteó en Infraestructuras.


From Tranvía.org (Pablo):

Talgo S-130 near Valladolid (Garcillán):



Segovia, new station:

Talgo Diesel

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Old August 19th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #236
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This is my first post in this international section of SSC
Here are my photos of the new Talgo in december 2006 in Benicarló-Peñíscola Sta., the same train of latest arriaca's post.

Nice sunset











and the train that i have arrived Talgo Murcia Lorca from Barcelona, departs to Castellón

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Old August 25th, 2007, 11:05 AM   #237
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Did I read somewhere that this Talgo S-130 can or does have sleeper cars?

With the variable gauge, could it provide through service to France until 2012?
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Old August 25th, 2007, 12:15 PM   #238
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There are already official dates from the Spanish Deparment of Public Works for the new HSLs openings in Spain, and they give also estimated times of arrival!:

AVE Madrid-Barcelona:
Opening: December 21st.
First Commercial Services: December 22nd.
Estimated Time: 2 hours and 35 minutes.

AVE Madrid-Valladolid:
Opening: December 22nd.
First Commercial Services: December 23rd.
Estimated Time: 1 hour.

AVE Madrid-Málaga:
Opening: December 23rd.
First Commercial Services: December 24th
Estimated Time: 2 hours and 35 minutes.

It has been confirmed that all new stretches concerning those lines (This is to say Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona, Madrid-Valladolid and Antequera-Málaga) will be opened in ERTMS/ETCS level 1, at speeds of 300km/h maximum. When ETCS level 2 enters in service on 2008, this maximum speeds will be increased up to 350km/h.


Last edited by growingup; August 25th, 2007 at 12:52 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2007, 12:21 PM   #239
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Madrid-BCN and Madrid-Málaga in 2h 35min?

1st distance is much longer...
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Εγώ είμαι ο Νταβόρ!!
David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 25th, 2007, 12:35 PM   #240
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Considering that Madrid-Málaga uses the first generation HSL (NAFA) from Madrid to Córdoba and starting there uses and all new second generation HSL which allows speed of up to 350km/h, as Madrid-Barcelona HSL, it's allright. Nevertheless, it will start services at a top speed of 300km/h due to the fact that ERTMS/ETCS level 1 only allows speeds up to 300km/h, same thing that happens on Madrid-Barcelona HSL. However, this time is expected to be shortened to 2 hours and 15-20 minutes in 2008 when ERTMS/ETCS level 2 enters in service, allowing speeds up to 350km/h in Córdoba-Málaga newest stretch. Madrid-Barcelona, Madrid-Málaga and Madrid-Seville direct services will be operated all with the same train, AVE S-103. S-100 and S-102 will be used in other services with more stops as they can accelerate faster than the AVE S-103 does.

Last edited by growingup; August 25th, 2007 at 01:06 PM.
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