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Old August 25th, 2007, 12:57 PM   #241
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Wee!! I'm just waiting for RTMS level II to be operative and then I'll plan my PMI-AGP-MAD-VLL-MAD-BCN-PMI trip to discover that amazing second generation HSL
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Old August 25th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #242
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^ Why are there line-side signals? Don't the trains have in-cab signalling?
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Old August 25th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #243
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They reach 350KM/h, and at that speed is impossible for the driver to see any signals, so the trains just rely on ERMTS and other automated systems to operate. Traffic control is centralised and processed in real time to guarantee safety conditions.

The train on the picture bellow it's just for tests.
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Old August 25th, 2007, 04:54 PM   #244
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Quote:
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^ Why are there line-side signals? Don't the trains have in-cab signalling?
Yes, they have it. The signals are used for ERTMS I and the secondary system (Renfe called it ASFA).
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Old August 25th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #245
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Luc View Post
^ Why are there line-side signals? Don't the trains have in-cab signalling?
Yes, they have it. The signals are used for ERTMS I and the secondary system (Renfe called it ASFA).
As Arriaca said, those signals are just a back-up system, to allow speeds up to 200 km/h when ERTMS fails. It's called ASFA (Anuncio de Señales y Frenado Automático - Signals Indication and Automatic Brake) and it have been used since the seventies in the rest of Spanish railway network.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 12:49 AM   #246
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Did I read somewhere that this Talgo S-130 can or does have sleeper cars?

With the variable gauge, could it provide through service to France until 2012?
Yes, it can have sleeping coaches because technology of Talgo coaches are basically the same. However, there is a problem due to voltage systems.

These units can run on conventional Spanish lines electrificated at 3000 V DC, and on new UIC lines at 25 kV AC. In Southern French network electrification system used is 1500 V DC, so Talgo/Bombardier locomotives must have modificated. Now, international trains between Spain and France, Italy o Switerzland change its locomotive at the border station.

Moreover, for a night train is more practical being a train without traction, because it's easier changing number of coaches and adapt them to needs.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 01:57 AM   #247
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In fact, Renfe ordered ten new "TrenHotel" (TrainHotel), without traction and completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators).

These night trains are Talgo 6 with variable gauge (1435 - 1668 mm) and they are able to run up to 220 km/h (they have Talgo 7 suspension and wheels).
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Old August 27th, 2007, 09:50 AM   #248
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Sorry but I can't understand you...without locomotive? completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)

Do you have more info about this new trainhotel?

Thanks!
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Old August 27th, 2007, 11:13 AM   #249
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Not exactly . When I say "completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)" y mean it doesn't need a link with locomotive to get electric power (to run AC, lights and the rest of on-board services). A couple of diesel generators provide power to the train, but a locomotive is still needed, of course.

Completely autonomous Talgo 6 trains make possible passing throught the gauge change complex without turn off AC and lights, so people sleeping (or not) won't be disturbed. In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 11:31 AM   #250
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In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.
Except lights! Usually coaches have batteries for that.
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Old August 27th, 2007, 01:08 PM   #251
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Quote:
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Not exactly . When I say "completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)" y mean it doesn't need a link with locomotive to get electric power (to run AC, lights and the rest of on-board services). A couple of diesel generators provide power to the train, but a locomotive is still needed, of course.

Completely autonomous Talgo 6 trains make possible passing throught the gauge change complex without turn off AC and lights, so people sleeping (or not) won't be disturbed. In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.
Ok...at first i'm surprised, maybe beacause my english is not perfect...but yes...I know this "generator" car in the talgos.

But also, I would like to know more about this new adquisitions, are the same train that actually (elipsos) or change something?
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Old August 28th, 2007, 12:05 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Except lights! Usually coaches have batteries for that.
Yes, but just emergency lights are turned on when the locomotive is unplugged .


Quote:
Originally Posted by sdf11 View Post
Ok...at first i'm surprised, maybe beacause my english is not perfect...but yes...I know this "generator" car in the talgos.

But also, I would like to know more about this new adquisitions, are the same train that actually (elipsos) or change something?
They are almost the same train, but newer Talgo 6 coaches have Talgo 7 suspension and wheels, speeding up the train from 200 km/h to 220 km/h, and increasing comfort.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 01:44 AM   #253
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Moreover, I imagine new Talgo sleeping coaches have same advantages than Talgo 7 coaches.

New generation of Talgo coaches allow an easier management of Talgo type rolling stock. The particular design of these coaches (with suspension and wheels between each coach) forced to have special ending coaches in the train, until 6th generation. However, 7th generation has a new suspension columns layout along the train, ending coaches are tecnically identical to others, and management of coaches is easier. It's a bit difficult to explain it correctly.

A/C equipements are under the floor along the coach in 7th generation, and not in the end of the coach. It improves natural pendulation and increases capacity.

Well, these are some differences between two last generations.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 02:00 AM   #254
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That would be fantastic, but the new sleeping coaches are Talgo 6, not Talgo 7 .
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Old August 28th, 2007, 02:06 AM   #255
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Yes, I know, but that's why I say "I imagine" xD .

I know new night trains are Talgo 6 with some improvements from 7th generation, but really I don't know how many improvements there will be (besides 7th generation wheels and suspension) xD

If you say there will be only these improvements I will believe you
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Old August 28th, 2007, 02:34 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
Yes, it can have sleeping coaches because technology of Talgo coaches are basically the same. However, there is a problem due to voltage systems.

These units can run on conventional Spanish lines electrificated at 3000 V DC, and on new UIC lines at 25 kV AC. In Southern French network electrification system used is 1500 V DC, so Talgo/Bombardier locomotives must have modificated. Now, international trains between Spain and France, Italy o Switerzland change its locomotive at the border station.

Moreover, for a night train is more practical being a train without traction, because it's easier changing number of coaches and adapt them to needs.
I would be nice if they could be modified for 1.5kV...

Imagine if an Elipsos Trenhotel started its journey in London, travelled through France and served Barcelona and Madrid. It could serve holiday destinations in SE Spain during the summer too.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 03:06 AM   #257
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When HS network is more developped, it will be possible, no doubt.

Suposely, France had a plan to change voltage system in its Southern network, but it seems to have been forgotten somewhere.

I don't know, but technology exists -a good example of multiple voltage systems train is TGV POS or Thalys PBKA, instead of a very poor power-to-weight-ratio on German lines-. However, by the moment, there is no news about it in Spain. Talgo has been developing a new variable gauge and bi-tension locomotive (I don't talk about loco's used in S-130 made by Bombardier) and it would be a basis for future developements...

Yes, I imagine night trains from Nothern Europe towards Spain...
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Old August 28th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #258
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In so long trips it is easier to change to the locomotive and the machinist.
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 08:20 PM   #259
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Some new videos from the HSL on Spain, principally in the southern corridor Madrid-Sevilla & Madrid-Toledo.


The new AVE S-103 during a service on Madrid-Sevilla HSL:








Some AVE S-100 class:








Now, the medium-haul high speed train, S-104 series on the track Madrid-Toledo:








And others:



AVE 252+Talgo 7, waiting for the AVE from Toledo.




In a few minuts more...
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 08:40 PM   #260
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And finally, two videos of the Hsl Madrid-Barcelona at Lleida-Pirineus Station:

AVE S-120 (variable gauge train):



AVE-102 "the famous duck"




BYE!
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