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Old May 27th, 2014, 02:19 PM   #2581
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Quote:
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Santiago-Vigo line.

River Ulla viaduct, at Catoira.
So just to be clear - this bridge will have rail tracks on upper deck and pedestrian walk path on lower deck?
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Old May 27th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #2582
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So just to be clear - this bridge will have rail tracks on upper deck and pedestrian walk path on lower deck?
Rail tracks on the upper deck, that┤s clear.

As for a possible pedestrian walk on the lower deck, I really don┤t know, I┤ll ask, but I┤d say that unless it was for the use of Adif staff, I┤d say no.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 05:17 PM   #2583
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I was thinking about the feasibility of open the lower deck for public access, but considering the height of the bridge over the water (and the level were most of the surrounding towns are) it would be relatively useless... but you never know.

Security issues maybe?

Anyway, it wouldn't be the first bridge in Spain with that design: upper deck for tracks, lower deck for road/walkway.

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Old May 27th, 2014, 05:36 PM   #2584
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Security issues maybe?
Of course. I absolutely discard any public use of the bridge.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 01:07 AM   #2585
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Quote:
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Rail tracks on the upper deck, that┤s clear.

As for a possible pedestrian walk on the lower deck, I really don┤t know, I┤ll ask, but I┤d say that unless it was for the use of Adif staff, I┤d say no.
I've never seen a concrete "lower deck" in a steel girder bridge, I can't understand its purpose.
Are those onle "loose" concrete slabs laying on the steel beams, or does it form a statically rigid plane? If so, maybe it could help the bridge preventing twisting under very stormy wind speed conditions, I can't see any other use...

An emergency walkway wouldn't make sense, it could be done easier with a cheap steel pattern.

A public open space along the lower deck would be really really fantastic cool. But in our fantasyless and security dictated paranoia times I don't really see any chance for that. Maybe 50 years ago...Maybe I am wrong :-)
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Old May 29th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #2586
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I've never seen a concrete "lower deck" in a steel girder bridge, I can't understand its purpose.
Are those onle "loose" concrete slabs laying on the steel beams, or does it form a statically rigid plane? If so, maybe it could help the bridge preventing twisting under very stormy wind speed conditions, I can't see any other use...

An emergency walkway wouldn't make sense, it could be done easier with a cheap steel pattern.

A public open space along the lower deck would be really really fantastic cool. But in our fantasyless and security dictated paranoia times I don't really see any chance for that. Maybe 50 years ago...Maybe I am wrong :-)
If I am not wrong, from the document I read, you assumption is right. The lower concrete slabs stabilize the whole structure. It is supposed to be a rigid slab.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 03:29 AM   #2587
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Hmmm...

Well if you look at the first photo, the piers seem to err... block the way for any pedestrian or road vehicle through movement.

Although I can think of a circuitous workaround (pun) for a pedestrain walkway I doubt its the reason for the concrete lower deck. Structural rigidity seems correct as mentioned.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 03:45 AM   #2588
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No, in this picture you can see there are small passages through the piles, but they seem to be only designed for maintenance purposes.

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Old May 29th, 2014, 03:56 AM   #2589
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Zaragoza-Castejˇn-Logro˝o-Miranda de Ebro-Bilbao line.
Somewhere near San Asensio station.

A class 120 on an Alvia Bilbao-Barcelona.

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Old May 29th, 2014, 05:36 AM   #2590
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Quote:
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No, in this picture you can see there are small passages through the piles, but they seem to be only designed for maintenance purposes.
Ahhh I stand corrected. But yes the small size probably means its only for maintenance use.
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Old May 31st, 2014, 02:30 AM   #2591
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Barcelona-Estaciˇ de Franša station.

A Talgo IIIRD has been restored, and will be running on Saturdays between Barcelona-Estaciˇ de Franša and Tarragona, calling at Barcelona-Sants and Vilanova i la Geltr˙, as a heritage train.

The ticket will include free admission at some of the Tarragona Roman monuments, and (check that if interested, as I┤m not very sure) at the Railway Museum in Vilanova i la Geltr˙.

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Old June 1st, 2014, 04:02 AM   #2592
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When the network is opened to private operators, I think there would be a market for business class only trains. In fact the old mare nostrum train could probably be operated as a dedicated business class train. It would be similar to the original Renfe Talgo concept but with competitive prices.

I'm thinking about something similar to the blue train that is running the Stockholm-Gothenburg route on the deregulated Swedish rail network, they offer higher comfort, a restaurant coach and a lounge coach with a piano bar. The trip is slower than the fast train, 4 hour instead of 3 but offer much higher travel quality at a resonable price, 40-60 euros for what is basically business class.

http://www.blataget.com/

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Old June 2nd, 2014, 03:07 AM   #2593
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Sant Vicenš de Calders-Roda de BarÓ-Valls-La Plana Picamoixons line.
Roda de BarÓ station.

Class 333 pulling the Matarˇ steam engine, from Lleida back to the Vilanova i la Geltr˙ museum.

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Old June 2nd, 2014, 03:11 AM   #2594
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Barcelona-Vilanova i la Geltr˙-Sant Vicenš de Calders line.
Between Platja de Castelldefels and Garraf stations.

Estrella Costa Brava (is it still called that way?) Madrid-Barcelona, the only remaining night train on that route:

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The new heritage train "Tarraco Talgo", with an old Talgo IIIRD trainset, on its way from Barcelona to Tarragona:

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Old June 2nd, 2014, 02:00 PM   #2595
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Recently on Videotren channels some new back views were published.

On red Video Tren channel was posted section Zaragozza - Logrono where we can watch drive through cambiador, we can also spot that section to Castelejon is being equipped with dual gauge convertible sleepers (preparation for UIC gauge conversion) while on remaining section the old split block sleepers are replaced by also reused but monoblock concrete sleepers with only Iberian gauge (only on some sections).


Meanwhile on green Video Tren channel recent video of Valladolid - Burgos - Mirinda de Ebro was posted where we can see present Valladolid station layout (with cambiador) and on other sections watch HS rail construction progress.



In Burgos train uses future HS alignment where we can see that on this part will be one Iberian gauge track and two UIC gauge. I have earlier thought that old alignment will be used for freight bypass but this google earth view dismisses that:
https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Bur...1f5beab8e71aa1

I assume that Bulevar del Ferrocaril is former rail alignment - where was the station located?
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Old June 2nd, 2014, 02:17 PM   #2596
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Quote:
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I assume that Bulevar del Ferrocaril is former rail alignment - where was the station located?
https://goo.gl/maps/a39xM
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Old June 2nd, 2014, 02:35 PM   #2597
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I ment old not new station.
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Old June 2nd, 2014, 03:10 PM   #2598
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https://goo.gl/maps/iRYYU
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Old June 2nd, 2014, 04:30 PM   #2599
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The case of Burgos where the city crossing line is taken out of the core into the suburbs is so crazy. A road replaces the rails. And it will be a busy road because it goes straight through the city. Great.

There are several cities in Spain that lost or will lose their core rail exchange central stations. I wonder why they do that, this choice is pretty unusual in Europe. Maybe real estate speculators expect rising prices of houses or the opportunity to cover the free land around the former central stations with office buildings or parking lots?
Not even in France they do things like that along their LGV's where city centers are at least served with a off-on branch from the LGV or directly with a through line (e.g. Lille) following the old alignment.

Other cities in Spain where the city center railway traffic will be replaced with car bound road traffic are Vitoria, Alcantarilla, Granada and MÚrida. Others just bury the rails under earth, which is better than to remove them from the center, nut it is also ridiculously expensive. I am aware of the reasons given that "the railway line cuts" the city. Well, car drivers have to wait in front of closed barriers that's it.

Luckily I can say that the economic crisis in Spain at least has some advantages in the sense that regions are so bankrupt nowadays that for now they can not pay for costly city tunneling, not even removing the tracks out of the centers as apparently they would like to do.

Which leads to some disasters like Leon where they already cut the direct city crossing line so trains now have to reverse and take a big loop around the city, losing I guess at least 15 Minutes (the gain of the LAV Palencia-Leˇn?).
Or take Palencia where they try to squeeze the new LAV line onto the existing rail corridor, resulting in two mini capacity single track(!) lines (one UIC, one iberian) where previously there was a reasonable double tracked iberian line.

Why haven't they had a look to France for instance? Or Germany or Switzerland? Build underpasses and bridges in the city center, but leave the rail there! Cover maybe half a kilometer but not the entire city (like Zaragosa).
Otherwise billions of public/european Euros are lost, money other European countries could only dream for when it comes to rail investments. Not to mention the passengers lost and the car and real-estate centric acceleration of urban space redefinition...

So great the high speed network is, so fantastic it is to travel with 300km/h through the country: On a regional level, in maybe half of the cases the worst choices have been taken. Either the super luxury approaches no other country could have afforded in a similar quantity (city tunnels), or the total failures like Burgos or the out-of-money cases like Leon.

Other endless stories with LAV integration are Valencia, the impossibility to route trains from BCN into the new through tunnel in Madrid, the UIC connection of Barjas Airport ... plus the network desintregration because of the UIC/Iberian jam..


But at the end, all this makes Spain a really interesting country to follow and a lot of interesting things are happening in such a short time span like in no other country except China, plus a strong iberian railway industry developing top state-of-the-art technology that now can perfectly compete and beat other world class "traditional" high speed rail countries like France or Germany (for Medina-Makkah HSl for example).
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Old June 2nd, 2014, 07:41 PM   #2600
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Many may argue but in most cases You have a point.
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