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Old April 13th, 2015, 03:44 PM   #2801
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No.

The Santiago-Vigo upgrade has been opened by phases these last years, in Iberian gauge.
It won't be switched to standard gauge for now, it will sometime in the future.

What opens now is te new section from Vigo Urzaiz to Arcade and Vilagarcía to A Escravitude new sections (including the the river Ulla viaduct, plus the new Vigo-Urzaiz and Padrón-Barbanza stations), and the electrification (the tension is 25 kV).

With the opening of these new sections, Corunna to Vigo is now totally double-tracked and electrified.
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Old April 13th, 2015, 05:54 PM   #2802
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One interesting thing about the newly built lines in and to Galicia (Ourense - Santiago de Compostela and Vigo - A Coruna) is their electrification with 25kV AC while being broad Iberian gauge (and a non electrified stretch remains on the way towards Madrid).

The Iberian gauge network is generally electrified with 3kV. So, during the transition phase until the Eje Atltantico lines are regauged to UIC (a phase that could last a while...) RENFE/ADIF have recently created technically feasible but concerning train operation less helpful specialties...

Are there other broad gauge lines electrified with 25kV in Spain?

And, I just noticed there have been Iberian gauged 1,5kV DC lines in Spain, also along main lines? When have they been converted to 3kV?
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Old April 13th, 2015, 06:30 PM   #2803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
One interesting thing about the newly built lines in and to Galicia (Ourense - Santiago de Compostela and Vigo - A Coruna) is their electrification with 25kV AC while being broad Iberian gauge (and a non electrified stretch remains on the way towards Madrid).
Which will be shortened later this year when the HSL section from Olmedo junction to Zamora opens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
The Iberian gauge network is generally electrified with 3kV. So, during the transition phase until the Eje Atltantico lines are regauged to UIC (a phase that could last a while...) RENFE/ADIF have recently created technically feasible but concerning train operation less helpful specialties...

Are there other broad gauge lines electrified with 25kV in Spain?
Not yet! All new HSLs are being electrified in that tension.

As for new classic line electrifications, it will also be the case for the Medina del Campo to Salamanca and Vilar Formoso line, which is already in works between Medina and Salamanca.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
And, I just noticed there have been Iberian gauged 1,5kV DC lines in Spain, also along main lines? When have they been converted to 3kV?
The following sections used to be electrified 1,5 kV:

-Madrid Principe Pio-Las Rozas-Pinar-Villalba-El Escorial-Avila
-Madrid Principe Pio-Paseo Imperial (freight only)
-Villalba-Cercedilla-Segovia-Hontanares de Eresma (section Segovia-Hontanares closed in... 1990, iirc)
-Barcelona França-Mataró-Arenys de Mar
-Barcelona França/Barcelona Vilanova-Clot (just for technical purpose)
-Barcelona Plaça Catalunya-Barcelona Vilanova-Barcelona Sant Andreu Arenal-Montcada Bifurcació-Cerdanyola del Vallès-Terrassa-Manresa
-Montcada Bifurcació-Ripoll-Sant Joan de les Abadesses (section Ripoll-Sant Joan closed in 1985)
-Ripoll-Puigcerdà-Latour de Carol (France)
-Miranda de Ebro-Vitoria-Altsasu-Irun-Hendaye (France)
-Miranda de Ebro-Orduña-Bilbao Abando
-Bilbao La Naja-Olabeaga-Desierto Barakaldo-Santurtzi (section Bilbao La Naja-Bilbao Parque closed in 1997, Bilbao Parque-Olabeaga closed in 2000)
-Bilbao Abando-Olabeaga
-Desierto Barakaldo-Muskiz
-Brañuelas-Torre del Bierzo (on the Leon-Ponferrada-Monforte de Lemos-Lugo-Corunna line)

Gradually they were all converted to 3 kV between 1965 and 1991.

The last ones to be converted to 3 kV were the lines in the Basque Country.

Besides, the section between Gérgal and Santa Fe-Alhama of the Linares Baeza to Almeria line used to be electrified at 5 kV three-phase (the first electrified line in Spain, opened in 1912). Later it would be extended from Gérgal to Nacimiento, and from Santa Fe-Alhama to Gádor then Almeria, and that electrification was dismantled in 1966, to be re-electrified in the 1980s at 3 kV and extended from Nacimiento to Huéneja-Dólar and Minas del Marquesado. The section between Huéneja-Dólar and Minas del Marquesado was closed, the remaining section is still electrified, but no electric train uses it (it is planned to do so in the future). It is still in tension to avoid it being stolen.

Nearly all the electrified metric-gauge lines use 1,5 kV, and the standard gauge suburban FGC lines between Barcelona and Sabadell and Terrassa, too.
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Old April 13th, 2015, 08:19 PM   #2804
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
News!

Santiago-Vigo upgrade to open this week.
Tickets on sale from tomorrow.

New best travel times for regional services:

-Pontevedra-Vigo Urzaiz 15 min (current travel time Pontevedra to Vigo Guixar in 36 min)
-Pontevedra-Vilagarcía 16 minutes (current travel time time 23 min)
-Pontevedra-Santiago 39 min (current travel time 56 min)
-Pontevedra-Corunna 1h08min (current travel time 1h34min)


Source (in Spanish): the Ministry.

That's great indeed, but I see that you purposefully listed only regional service time changes. There will also be changes for Santiago-Vigo and Coruna-Vigo trips, right? Will there actually be services which stop only in Santiago en route from Corunna to Vigo? Also how about increased frequency? When I was there last year traffic was very sparse on Santiago-Vigo stretch at least.
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Old April 14th, 2015, 04:10 AM   #2805
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NEWS! (update)

Santiago-Vigo upgrade to open next Saturday (it seems).

=================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That's great indeed, but I see that you purposefully listed only regional service time changes.
I did it on purpose, yes. Things were/are a bit foggy.
And I'm slightly out of touch with railways now, too (work, life, and so on).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
There will also be changes for Santiago-Vigo and Coruna-Vigo trips, right?
'Course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Will there actually be services which stop only in Santiago en route from Corunna to Vigo?
No. No. No. No.
Having trains not calling at Pontevedra and Vilagarcía would mean a Galician civil war, at the very least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Also how about increased frequency? When I was there last year traffic was very sparse on Santiago-Vigo stretch at least.
I'll try and inform you, if Gusiluz is not faster than me.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 02:52 AM   #2806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That's great indeed, but I see that you purposefully listed only regional service time changes. There will also be changes for Santiago-Vigo and Coruna-Vigo trips, right? Will there actually be services which stop only in Santiago en route from Corunna to Vigo? Also how about increased frequency? When I was there last year traffic was very sparse on Santiago-Vigo stretch at least.
Here's what you asked about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jotaerre View Post



Note that the top graphic shows the new fast services, using the new Vigo-Urzaiz station, the new sections between Vigo and Arcade, and between Vilagarcía and A Escravitude (using the new Padrón-Barbanza station and the river Ulla viaduct).

While the bottom graphic shows the remaining regional trains which will reach Vigo Guixar station, and will keep on using the old classic sections and call at more stations.

For stupid political reasons, no Alvia to Madrid or Barcelona will use the new sections yet. The mayor of Vigo is to blame for that.
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Old April 15th, 2015, 03:13 AM   #2807
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UPDATE | Santiago-Vigo line upgrade.

New Vigo-Urzáiz station, completely rebuilt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltan View Post
The totally rebuilt Vigo Urzáiz station is already open from 10:00 to 20:00. From April 18 it will start the usual opening timetable from 06:15 to 23:00.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltan View Post
We approach it:







The station belongs to Adif Alta Velocidad which in Galicia also runs Pontevedra, Vilagarcía, Santiago and Ourense stations.




We enter the station.





Opening timetables.





Pannel with departures and arrivals.







Automatic ticket machines (1 for MD -regional rail-, 3 for Long Distance, Avant and AVE).





Here you validate the regional rail (MD) seasonal passes.





Toilets.





Waiting room.





Cafeteria, very small btw. I guess they'll allow a few tables outside, otherwise it will be far too small...





Access to platforms.





Provisory departures hall. It doesn't get to platform 6 (there's a wall). No lift and no escalator.







Panoramic pictures of Vigo along the provisory departures hall.





Future departures hall, designed by Thom Mayne.





Access from the departures hall to a platform, each of them has a lift, two escalators, a staircase and a screen.





Access to a platform, all in glass to not let the cold in [Galicia is as cold and rainy as most of Britain in winter].




Platforms 5-3.





Platforms 1-2.




Leaving the station.







Long corridor, toilets and customers' attention centre to the right.







Next to the exit, on both sides there are two shops, one will be a newsagents and the other a sweet shop.





When leaving the station, passengers will see this:





Access to car park -1 and 0 levels (future ground floor of Vialia shopping mall).





Taxi stop and platform for Renfe bus [for Vigo Guixar station, I guess].





Car rent area:





Up to the city:





Open air car park at level 0 which in the future will become the ground floor of the Vialia shopping mall.



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Old April 15th, 2015, 11:07 PM   #2808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Note that the top graphic shows the new fast services, using the new Vigo-Urzaiz station, the new sections between Vigo and Arcade, and between Vilagarcía and A Escravitude (using the new Padrón-Barbanza station and the river Ulla viaduct).

While the bottom graphic shows the remaining regional trains which will reach Vigo Guixar station, and will keep on using the old classic sections and call at more stations.
Thanks. That's a significant improvement from before, but if I was them I'd run another train or two after the last one they have. Also what's the point of keeping open stations where only 1-2 trains per day are stopping?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
For stupid political reasons, no Alvia to Madrid or Barcelona will use the new sections yet. The mayor of Vigo is to blame for that.
They better sort that one out before the entire line to Madrid is finished...


Vigo-Urzaiz station looks fairly good. About that future shopping mall - is there a private money and desire to build it or is it just that one of those government ideas unlikely to be realised anytime soon?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 04:35 AM   #2809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Thanks. That's a significant improvement from before, but if I was them I'd run another train or two after the last one they have.
The question is: would they have enough available rolling stock to have those two extra trains you're asking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Also what's the point of keeping open stations where only 1-2 trains per day are stopping?
Don't pay attention to that. That's a EU thing, developed countries like yours don't have that. Being Swiss has its advantages...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
They better sort that one out before the entire line to Madrid is finished...
They'd better sue the mayor of Vigo (and btw former Spanish minister for Transports in the 1980s).
He wants an exclusive HSL from Ourense to Vigo. He says that otherwise Vigo is marginalized. B0ll0cks.

Delaying the new Alvia routes will mean losing passengers, since that new route means a rather big improvement for Pontevedra trips to Madrid (more than 1 hour), and the simple fact that Pontevedra will get a direct train for Barcelona, and Vilagarcía will get their first ever direct services for Madrid and Barcelona.
But Vigo doesn't get such an improvement in travel time, so Mr.Mayor of Vigo doesn't like Pontevedra taking over Vigo in travel time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Vigo-Urzaiz station looks fairly good.
I found the original project rather odd. Unfinished it looks even more odd.

The thing I'm impressed about it is just how fast the (re)construction works have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
About that future shopping mall - is there a private money and desire to build it or is it just that one of those government ideas unlikely to be realised anytime soon?
Not sure, but I'd say it's a 50-50 thing, iirc. The shopping mall would have been a Vialia, like in other stations.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:19 PM   #2810
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Is anything known about how many freight trains use the Perpignan - Figueres high speed line, per week? Wikipedia mentions 4 freighters per week in January 2011, I'm wondering if that number has gone up or not.

Also, I'm curious if timetables are known. In a few weeks time, I'll be in southern France for some train spotting and it might be an option to cross the border to catch some AVE's and TGV's on the LAV as well - some freight would be a nice bonus.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 07:19 PM   #2811
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Retrieved January 29, 2015:

Full list of standard gauge trains:

41101 03.54 Barcelona-TP Ferro X Wednesday
91846 08.44 Figueres-Barcelona XJVS Wednesday, Tuesday, Friday. and Saturday
40704 14.52 TP Ferro-Barcelona100 MX Tuesday, Wednesday
91305 15.55 Barcelona-Figueres X Wednesday
91845 20.08 Barcelona-Figueres LMXJ Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #2812
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Thank you very much, Gusiluz!

What do X, XJVs, 100 MX, and LMXJ stand for?
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:32 PM   #2813
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Quote:
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Thank you very much, Gusiluz!

What do X, XJVs, 100 MX, and LMXJ stand for?
the days of the week in Spanish. X = except (I guess)
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:36 PM   #2814
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X = Wednesday
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #2815
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Ah, I see - I did not know the days of the week were abbreviated like that. Thanks!
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Old April 17th, 2015, 03:15 AM   #2816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Thank you very much, Gusiluz!

What do X, XJVs, 100 MX, and LMXJ stand for?
L = lunes = Monday
M = martes = Tuesday
X = miércoles = Wednesday
J = jueves = Thursday
V = viernes = Friday
S = sábado = Saturday
D = domingo = Sunday

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Old April 18th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #2817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
The question is: would they have enough available rolling stock to have those two extra trains you're asking about?
Of course I have no idea either, but if there isn't then it's time to start thinking about ordering more. I remember reading that there are more HS trains available than there is use for them, but it might be different for regional trains.

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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
They'd better sue the mayor of Vigo (and btw former Spanish minister for Transports in the 1980s).
He wants an exclusive HSL from Ourense to Vigo. He says that otherwise Vigo is marginalized. B0ll0cks.
That's really silly. Brand new route there doesn't make much sense and it seems unlikely he will achieve anything. Galicia has already been quite favoured in HSR spending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Delaying the new Alvia routes will mean losing passengers, since that new route means a rather big improvement for Pontevedra trips to Madrid (more than 1 hour), and the simple fact that Pontevedra will get a direct train for Barcelona, and Vilagarcía will get their first ever direct services for Madrid and Barcelona.
But Vigo doesn't get such an improvement in travel time, so Mr.Mayor of Vigo doesn't like Pontevedra taking over Vigo in travel time.
Ok, not an hour but Vigo ought to get significant time improvements as well. Exactly the same they are getting for trips to Santiago over the new line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I found the original project rather odd. Unfinished it looks even more odd.
It is a bit odd, particularly from above, but inside seems to quite functional.


There is so much potential for this new infrastructure if it's used right. It looks like there is enough capacity for long distance services, fast regional services as well as all stopping local services by using a combination of old and new lines. What would be useful to facilitate this is electrification of remaining unelectrified portions of classical line between Santiago and Vigo.

Also it seems to me that in Galician context there is too much emphasis on connections to Madrid. They are of importance and the new line when fully finished will deliver that, but even more important is high quality (regular, high frequency) local/regional traffic. If you live in Pontevedra a trip to Vigo or Santiago is a lot more likely than to Madrid.
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Old April 18th, 2015, 09:47 PM   #2818
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Here is the newest version of Spanish railway map. It is very detailed, perhaps even too detailed (plenty of projects drawn which are very unlikely to be started).

http://rfe.geotren.es/
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Old April 19th, 2015, 03:39 AM   #2819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
They'd better sue the mayor of Vigo (and btw former Spanish minister for Transports in the 1980s).
He wants an exclusive HSL from Ourense to Vigo. He says that otherwise Vigo is marginalized.

I.) Well, there is a grain (even if its a tiny one) of truth in that. The choice to Connect Ourense to Santiago instead of a line more in the south (i.e. Pontevedra-Ourense) is at least questionable (terrain it is tunnel-demanding mountains everywhere anyway)

The configuration of the HSL towards Madrid brings no substantial (if any) time advantage to Vigo: From Vigo trains run the HSL for 75km (direct straight distance) to the north to Santiago de Compostela, only to sharply turn south for 85km (always direct straight distance) to reach Ourense: The direct distance from Vigo to Ourense is only 70km.

So trains are making a long loop at high speed to Santiago, while there is a cheap existing electrified and rather direct line (along the PT border). Even more, this line underwent heavy reconstruction in the first decade of 2000:
The line has been straightened and radius brought to mostly 1000m which should be enough for 150-160km/h operation.
The bad thing is that ... they only upgraded half of the line, the (eastern) and more difficult part is left as it always was: Slow.

You will find the track improvements (I found 11) on the direct Vigo-Ourense line on the New Rail Infrastructure Observation Project (oops, I changed its name...), the link zooms you directly to the aforementioned line.

So, in essence, why hasn't Ourense been linked to Vigo more directly? I can well understand that this can make any local politician angry. (the terrain is mostly demanding tunnel everywhere...).


II.) Another rather unlucky thing nowadays is that the Iberian gauge classic line which closely follows the coastline and its towns can not reach the new Vigo station: All trains call at a temporary(?) station down at the harbor which has been set up to have some sort of station in Vigo while the new station is being built. The station is pretty nice in my eyes:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estaci%...de_Vigo-Guixar


This is really bad, they should at least reopen the ramp that linked the waterfront line with the new station, also because of the line to Portugal which can not take advantage of the new 8km(!) tunnel because there is no connection to the old line which it crosses at its end, as one can observe in this zoom view to the new Vigo AVE railway access.

BTW: Before the now opened station has been built, the previous one has been inaugurated in ... 1987. Seems the "old" one did not allow for "real-estate developments" on its roof?


From my tiny Austrian perspective, where rail investment is comparatively low, I can only envy what has been built in Spain: Many thousand km of new lines have been built, even the most remote regions get their high speed infrastructure. Lots of 7km radius curves, tall and long bridges, even longer tunnels. Highest speeds with no compromises.
But in the same time I am astonished with how much inefficiency and lack of synergies the new lines (network effects deteriorate instead of improving) and systems (multiplicity of gauges, signalling, electrification...) are spawn across the country. It will take decades and lots of money to correct the not so few errors...lets hope it will be there. An the necessary will as well.


Anyway and again: The fact that great technology and good ideas meet also those that are not so ideal ... that combination makes the whole topic even more interesting...
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Old April 19th, 2015, 09:20 AM   #2820
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There should have been only one station in Vigo, no doubt about that but it's way too late for that so I didn't mention it. It is possible to take a regular train to Ourense and then Alvia to Madrid from there. Probably wouldn't save time though even if schedules were perfectly aligned.

And Austrians are tunnelling like crazy now so there is plenty of interesting things going on in your country as well
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