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Old December 28th, 2007, 08:21 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growingup View Post
This is how a spanish train change national gauge to international gauge and the other way around. It's really interesting to see how it works:

this is so cool!
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Old December 29th, 2007, 02:32 AM   #362
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That was excellant growingup. I did not realise how easy it was to change guage. Good to see Spain leading the way in high speed rail infrastructure.
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Old December 30th, 2007, 12:27 PM   #363
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Quote:
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That was excellant growingup. I did not realise how easy it was to change guage. Good to see Spain leading the way in high speed rail infrastructure.
If it is so easy to change gauge between Valladolid and Bilbao, why does it take so many time to do the same thing between Hendaye and Irun or between Cerbere and Port Bou ?
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Old December 30th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #364
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Because between Madrid and Bilbao/Gijón/Barcelona also the engines change gauge, but between Spain and France they don't. In Irún the Spanish engine is detached, and a shunt engine is attached to the other end of the train. The shunter push the Talgo set into the "gauge changer", then the French engine is attached to the train.

Within Spain, often but not ever, the train just has to slow, and the whole set with the engines change gauge.
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Old December 30th, 2007, 08:56 PM   #365
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And aslo beacause the fast change of gauge only occurs with modern trains thanks to its improved technology.
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Old December 30th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #366
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Correct.

With new class 120 and class 130 EMUs change is fast because they are EMUs and they don't need replace their engine.

When we are talking about international night trains between Spain and France, Italy and Switzerland you have to considerer they are Talgo cars sets pulled by independent engines, so change of gauge is more complicated.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 06:10 PM   #367
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And aslo beacause the fast change of gauge only occurs with modern trains thanks to its improved technology.
It's not a matter of technology, but of the type of the train: engine+wagons, or EMU.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 07:14 PM   #368
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Technology development has been fundamental to reach actual fast gauge change. You have to considerer that gauge variable drive bogies was a dream a few years ago, and this development has been essential to design new EMUs.

A few years ago we only had Talgo cars pulled by engines, because without gauge variable drive bogies pulled cars could change of gauge, but you had to change the engine. You have reason, it's a matter of type of train, and the type of trains, or at least, new variable gauge EMUs is directly connected with development of new technology (Talgo and CAF).
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Old January 1st, 2008, 02:55 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
It's not a matter of technology, but of the type of the train: engine+wagons, or EMU.
Yet the type of train is technology too
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:14 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Within Spain, often but not ever, the train just has to slow, and the whole set with the engines change gauge.
It's very interresting but I think that the Spanish Engines, that can change gauge, could run until Hendaye and Cerbere...but maybe is that too simplistic.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 04:41 PM   #371
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Currently, Spanish units that can change gauge are class 120 and class 130 emus and some units from class 594 equiped with BRAVA bogies.

Electrical units can not run on French tracks because voltage system on Southern France network is 1,5 kV DC, but in Spain conventional network uses 3 kV DC. UIC lines in Spain use 25 kV AC but in France this voltage system is only used in HSLs and in Nothern network. So, there is a problem due to voltage incompatibility. Supossely, French Government was going to change voltage system in Southern network, but I think it has been stopped.

On the other hand, Renfe class 594 is a DMU but it's not aproved to run on French network, so it can be use for international links.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:03 PM   #372
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Modifying a 3kV train to run on 1.5kV should be relatively easy though
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 06:53 PM   #373
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Another video of a Talgo S-130 changing its gauge from Iberian (1,668 mm) to UIC (1,435 mm):




CAF S-120 changing the pantograph from 3kV to 25kV:

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Old January 4th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #374
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Quote:
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CAF S-120 changing the pantograph from 3kV to 25kV:

so wait, the overhead cable stays the same, but only the train's pantograph changes? does that mean that both currents are flowing through the overhead cables?
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Old January 4th, 2008, 11:23 PM   #375
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Modifying a 3kV train to run on 1.5kV should be relatively easy though
Yes no doubt. But you have to change electric system. In any case curently you can find train that can run on four different voltage system. A good example is Thalys PKBA unit sets. Renfe have some old locomotive adapted for 1,5 kV CC from some old lines that had that voltage system, but it hapenned many years ago and I don't know if these locomotives keep these electric systems, but in any case we are talking about quite old engines.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 04:18 AM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicerón View Post
Another video of a Talgo S-130 changing its gauge from Iberian (1,668 mm) to UIC (1,435 mm):




CAF S-120 changing the pantograph from 3kV to 25kV:

Very interesting videos.

Many thanks!
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Old January 5th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
Yes no doubt. But you have to change electric system. In any case curently you can find train that can run on four different voltage system. A good example is Thalys PKBA unit sets. Renfe have some old locomotive adapted for 1,5 kV CC from some old lines that had that voltage system, but it hapenned many years ago and I don't know if these locomotives keep these electric systems, but in any case we are talking about quite old engines.
As they are both DC, simplistically, to make a 1.5K work on a 3K power supply just change the transformer to have a different output, or add a voltage halving transformer that can be switched into the circuit when required. It's electrically very simple. The difficulty would be if there is space in the engine, if it's cost effective, if the engine would draw too much current for the other country's power supply to cope with, has a start-up spike that the power supply can't cope with, or it can cope too well and the engine burns itself out by instantaneously drawing too much power, not mention secondary effects on signalling systems that may be problematic and other issues. Most of these wouldn't be very likely but they still have to be extensively tested before deploying a loco on a new network.
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Old January 6th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #378
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Very interesting how the Talgo 250/ Alvia 130...change its gauge...

Thanks Cicerón!!
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Old January 26th, 2008, 04:56 AM   #379
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It is very probable that the AVE Madrid - Barcelona is opened the public between February 20-28... The date even not this one confirmed officially, but this way it is rumored and surely it will be like that...

A proof of it is the traffic of trains AVE up to approximately 10 km from the arrival to Barcelona Sants



The AVE 103 at the St. Boi Bridge! Thanks Sanlucar for that impressive pic!


Also we have some new videos of the AVE's trainsets:



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Old January 26th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #380
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Great video update!. Thanks sdf11.
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