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Old January 29th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
in that map, blue lines are HSL in use, 25 kV and standard gauge. The red and dotted lines, are the same, but under construction (even if some stretches have yet been opened).

Green lines are planned.

They will be initially built at iberian gauge (1668 mm) but with convertible sleepers (1668 OR1435), electrification will probably be in 25 kV from the beginning.

Some are yet under construction, like Pontevedra-Santiago de Compostela-A Coruña. I've done Santiago-A Coruña by train in august 2006, on some streches my train run on the old line, on some other it used the new. Temporarly, 1668 mm and diesel traction.

Blue and red lines are or will be only-passenger 350 km/h lines, the greens ones miexed passenger/freight, with 200 to 220 km/h as speed limit (not really HSL). We will see how many green lines will be built.

I hope that iberic network will be converted to standard gauge in the future, especially for freight traffic. Rail freight traffic between Spain and France is very low, about 6 million tonnes each yerar
Main trunck rail lines will be DEDICATED to AVE network at speeds of 300kmh or more ... secundary lines and MAIN regional corridors will be 200/250kmh due to local usage ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Compare this:
http://www.technologyreview.com/micr...n_trainmap.gif (planned "HSL" lines)
and this:
http://bueker.net/trainspotting/map....-peninsula.gif (existing network)

They shows about the same lines, that is, neraly all railways are planned to be upgraded to 200 km/h and UIC gauge.

It's true that Spain is planning to convert all of its network to standard gauge, it's true that al "green" line are planend to sue standard gauge in the future, but not from the beginning.
This is where most people make their mistakes ... the grren lines are NOT (in most cases) conversions of older routes ... they simply just follow the same stretch of terrain due to the peninsula mountainousness.

Quote:
Once again, I have travelled the Santiago-A Coruña line in summer 2006, and it used iberian gauge and diesel trains even on the upgraded parts. Some parts of this line have yet been upgraded, some not = my train used the old line here, then the new there, and again the old line, then the new...

At least this line is being (re)built with iberian gauge and diesel traction, and will be converted later. Zoltan here or on Tranvia.org will confirm that.
You got a HUGE problem .... you GET the ONLY case where something aplies ..i. and generalise to everywhere else ...

Atlantic corridos (Corunha-Vigo) is being doubled and realigned to 200/250kmh running ... only some (very few in fact) "regional" lines will suffer the same faith ... but some stretches or "renewed" lines are in fact 250kmh (could be even 300kmh in the future) ... but the cost of dedicated 300kmh + mixed (reusing the old lines for regional/freight) is lower than the extensive usage of 220/250kmh lines ... and the gains are much higher.

Quote:
So:
Phase one: new line, iberian gauge, 3 kV or diesel traction
Phase two: the new line will be converted to standard gauge and 25 kV
The "Corredor Atlántico" follows this scheme, and there is nothing shame in that.

Maybe some lines will built, or rebuilt, with standard gauge from the beginning, probably the lines near the French border, like the Y-Basca (Bilbao/Vitoria-San Sebastián-Irún-France).

I'm still unsure about what will happen with the Pajares base tunnel, anyway (León-Oviedo). Iberic or standard gauge...I think Zoltan answered that question somewhere.
You get it completely wrong ... for example:

Barcelona-FrenchBorder will be mixed 300kmh track from day one ... nothern Spanish lines are 100% new lines ... wonder where y

Lisboa(Portugal)-Badajoz-Madrid will be a +300kmh line CLOSE to the existing one that will be kept open for regional and freight train (and eventualy will be converted to UIC gauge) ... secundary connections will be 1.iberian+1uic or will even only receive new dual gauge sleepers and converted to UIC somewhere in the future.

You will get 3 or even 4 tracks almost everywhere in those green lines on that map ...
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Old January 29th, 2008, 03:16 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napo View Post
Yes yes, Spain is the most developped and richest country in the world, the spanish companies are the biggest on the planet, and spanish trains are the better in Europe. Ok?
But this doesn't mean that you can insult my country. You must be more modest, and you must have more respect for the others countries, many of which are more developped, more important, and richer than Spain.
This thread is called "new HSL in Spain", no "Spain vs Italy" or "Spain vs Germany" or "Spain vs England". If you want to say these things open a new thread:"Spain, the better country in the world".
I hope that this (Off Topic) dicussion ends now.

Saludos a todos amigos espanoles
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Old January 29th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
Yes no doubt. But you have to change electric system. In any case curently you can find train that can run on four different voltage system. A good example is Thalys PKBA unit sets. Renfe have some old locomotive adapted for 1,5 kV CC from some old lines that had that voltage system, but it hapenned many years ago and I don't know if these locomotives keep these electric systems, but in any case we are talking about quite old engines.
Different Signaling , current , gauge ... we should just BUILD a batch of "Iberia Express" LMBP (like thalys or Eurostar trains)

But there is no need to retrofit old trains .... new ones are being built and much more will be necessary in the next few years.

Lusitania + Sud express + all spain<->france express trains should benefit from it. << only naming international/cross border trains

Maiby the best solutions would be to just grab some Talgo 130 locomotives and make them 4 voltage ???
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Old January 30th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #384
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Here we are 3 pic's of Tonetti from the Sant Boi Bridge, very near of Barcelona Sants:






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Old January 30th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #385
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Old January 30th, 2008, 05:41 PM   #386
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Menuda preciosidad - What a beauty.

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Old January 30th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #387
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Great photos!

Only 5 or 6 km. before Barcelona city!

Its'coming, it's coming soon!!
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Old January 31st, 2008, 11:34 AM   #388
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Yeah, finally! I´m so excited
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Old January 31st, 2008, 02:07 PM   #389
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Wow what a pictures!
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Old February 3rd, 2008, 02:05 AM   #390
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HSL Madrid Puerta de Atocha-Málaga María Zambrano:

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Old February 5th, 2008, 01:20 AM   #391
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The first AVE talgo Test Train arrives at sants station in Barcelona!!








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Old February 5th, 2008, 01:25 AM   #392
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2 videos by my self:


Two AVE's 103 series Velaro E, in double composition...2 trains, 1608 seats...

Filmed at Lleida Station:

Camp de Tarragona-Madrid Puerta de Atocha:






Madrid Puerta de Atocha-Camp de Tarragona:





Regards!
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Old February 5th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #393
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How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!
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Old February 5th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!
The line is not open yet, the green and white train above is a test train.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!
From Tarragona (the end of the line right now) to St. Boi...10km for bcn sants...has tested for many months also, the only thing that they are testing now is the entry to sants, alone 3 or 4 km, which the trains will do to very low speed and which it is not necessary any more tests that these, but the whole line (this way like of valladolid and that of Malaga) has been tested for several months and have crossed hundreds of thousands of kilometres...
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Old February 5th, 2008, 07:53 PM   #396
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I know, the green train is (part of the) the prototype Talgo XXI used by Adif for test runs.

So, the longest stretch that has not been tested until yesterday, is only 15 km long? The other part from Taragona has been tested yet? I have misunderstood!

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Old February 5th, 2008, 09:49 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I know, the green train is (part of the) the prototype Talgo XXI used by Adif for test runs.

So, the longest stretch that has not been tested until yesterday, is only 15 km long? The other part from Taragona has been tested yet? I have misunderstood!

I quote the boss of renfe in a spanish forum tranvia.org...


Quote:
On 2008-02-03 23:44, Renfe-Operadora wrote:
Así se encuentran actualmente las obras en su accesos a Barcelona.

::Camp de Tarragona-Sant Joan Despí
Obras finalizadas
Pruebas finalizadas

::Sant Joan Despí-Sant Boi
Obras finalizadas
Pruebas finalizadas

::Sant Boi-L´Hospitalet
Obras finalizadas
En pruebas

::L´Hospitalet-La Torrassa
Montaje de vía finalizado próximo 5 Febrero
Instalación de catenaria y señalización en marcha
Inicio pruebas del ADIF con trenes diesel desde 4 Febrero

::La Torrassa-Sants
Montaje de vía finalizado
Instalación de catenaria y señalización en marcha
Inicio pruebas del ADIF con trenes diesel desde 4 Febrero

Saludos Cordiales

[ Este mensaje fue editado por: Renfe-Operadora on 03-02-2008 23:45 ]

I try to traduce well:

Quote:
On 2008-02-03 23:44, Renfe-Operadora wrote:
It currently works in their access to Barcelona.

::Camp de Tarragona-Sant Joan Despí
Works completed
Tests Completed


::Sant Joan Despí-Sant Boi
Works completed
Tests Completed


::Sant Boi-L´Hospitalet
Works competed
Testing


::L´Hospitalet-La Torrassa
Mounting track completed next February 5
Installing catenary and signage in place
Start testing ADIF with diesel trains from Yesterday


::La Torrassa-Sants
Mounting track completed
Installing catenary and signage in place
Start testing ADIF with diesel trains from Yesterday


Best Regards.

[ Este mensaje fue editado por: Renfe-Operadora on 03-02-2008 23:45 ]

So, Sant Boi is around 15km or less to Barcelona Sants Station...the only need to test 15km right now...the tests between Tarragona to Sant Boi starts aproximatly in Summer 2007...

The Line will be opened around 20 February...
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Old February 5th, 2008, 09:52 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!
The vast majority of the Madrid-Barcelona line already has passanger service (i.e., Madrid to Tarragona).

So there is no need to perform tests on this part of the line, but only the Tarragona-Barcelona part.
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Old February 9th, 2008, 03:34 AM   #399
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The AVE S103 arrives to Barcelona-Sants!!!











The next important date will be around 20 February...
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Old February 11th, 2008, 04:07 PM   #400
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The line is finished!!!


This morning I saw the AVE S103 and the Adif test train A-330 at the bellvitge tunnel...


Enjoy it!



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