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Old July 16th, 2008, 04:04 AM   #501
sotavento
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Isn't that the 2nd tunel under Barcelona to carry the HSL to france ?
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Old July 16th, 2008, 05:16 AM   #502
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It will be the 3r railway tunnel under Barcelona, but the 1st for high speed railway.

A strong renforcement of Sagrada Familia foundations is being made, do not worry!

Moreover:
Actually, now there are 2 metro tunnels under Sagrada Familia: line 2 and line 5.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 06:05 AM   #503
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Thanks for the info. Yeah I figured the metro would probably go underneath as there's a station basically right next to the church.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 10:41 PM   #504
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more info about the AVE tunnel under the Sagrada Familia can be found here (the sections in English, Spanish and Catalan are the most informing)
the tunnels don't go really under the temple, but right next to its foundations.
the metro tunnels are exactly under the roads in front of the temple.
The new tunnel is being constructed at a much deeper level, so it should be OK.

It shouldn't really be a problem to construct the new tunnel, if you see how the Antwerp rail tunnel was dug under the Central Station building.
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Old July 25th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pietje01 View Post
more info about the AVE tunnel under the Sagrada Familia can be found here (the sections in English, Spanish and Catalan are the most informing)
the tunnels don't go really under the temple, but right next to its foundations.
the metro tunnels are exactly under the roads in front of the temple.
The new tunnel is being constructed at a much deeper level, so it should be OK.

It shouldn't really be a problem to construct the new tunnel, if you see how the Antwerp rail tunnel was dug under the Central Station building.
If you know the recent history about the new tunnels that were built in Barcelona you know why many fear for this one.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 01:58 AM   #506
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What's the deal with the extremely generous Renfe timetables? A few weeks ago I bought a return ticket to Zaragoza with the AVE. On the Barcelona-Zaragoza trip the train made long stops in both Tarragona (5min) and Lleida (10 min). It also came to a complete stop in the middle of nowhere in between Lleida and Zaragoza for about 5min. Despite this the train arrived on time, actually a minute ahead of the timetable?

On the return trip (nonstop) the train came to a complete stop midway, after about six-seven minutes it began to move but still managed to enter the Barcelona trainstation 4 minutes ahead of the timetable.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #507
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It is because they give you all the money back if the train is delayed more than 15 minutes, so they "inflate" the journey time.
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 12th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
It is because they give you all the money back if the train is delayed more than 15 minutes, so they "inflate" the journey time.
It's stupid. I think the better would be to have a bigger fares, faster travel times and just pay for delayed.

I think thath Renfe need serious competition on your tracks.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 04:42 AM   #509
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I guess they're inflating the timetables until they set the top speed at 350 km/h. We just have to take a look to the timetables in the Madrid-Seville line and then ask somebody who has used this line, to see if the trains stop there as well.

Anybody?
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Old August 12th, 2008, 04:37 PM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubert Pollak View Post
It's stupid. I think the better would be to have a bigger fares, faster travel times and just pay for delayed.

I think thath Renfe need serious competition on your tracks.
It is what they do:
-Big prices: 106-125€ for one way!
-Faster train: 2h.38min.
-All money refunded if the train arrives to destination 15 minutes delayed or more.

The real travel time for direct services could be 2h.15min., but they set 2h. 38min.

I agree with you: RENFE needs serious concurrence!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHardMenPath View Post
I guess they're inflating the timetables until they set the top speed at 350 km/h. We just have to take a look to the timetables in the Madrid-Seville line and then ask somebody who has used this line, to see if the trains stop there as well.

Anybody?
From Madrid to Seville is 476km. From Barcelona to Madrid is 620km. Both high speed trains take more or less the same time: 2h.30min. approx.

At the beginning, in 1992, trains from Madrid to Seville took 3h. Now the faster train takes 2h.15min. approx. But those trains are slower and the distance is shorter. And, in Seville line, RENFE refunds all money back if the train arrives to destination 5 minutes late or more!

I have used both lines several times.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 12th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #511
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You forget that his line is new (the HST trains arrived at Barcelona since February), and the trains run over a new system (ERTMS / ETCS II)
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Old August 13th, 2008, 12:58 AM   #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
At the beginning, in 1992, trains from Madrid to Seville took 3h. Now the faster train takes 2h.15min. approx. But those trains are slower and the distance is shorter. And, in Seville line, RENFE refunds all money back if the train arrives to destination 5 minutes late or more!

I have used both lines several times.
Thanks a lot for the info, but they do (or did) stop in the Madrid-Seville line, or they (didn't) don't?
Because i see it like it's more a gap for timetable adjustement or more likely a safety mattress to avoid unforeseen events.
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Old August 13th, 2008, 04:54 AM   #513
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Some trains stopped/stops but some other trains were/are direct without stops between Madrid and Seville.
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Εγώ είμαι ο Νταβόρ!!
David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 13th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHardMenPath View Post
Thanks a lot for the info, but they do (or did) stop in the Madrid-Seville line, or they (didn't) don't?
Because i see it like it's more a gap for timetable adjustement or more likely a safety mattress to avoid unforeseen events.
Its known as recovery time or slack. Very common timetable tactic.
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Old August 13th, 2008, 04:31 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Its known as recovery time or slack. Very common timetable tactic.
Yea but normaly the timetable on any service has a recovery time of 5-10 min. On the Barcelona-Madrid line it has to be in the 30 min region for the 3h 23min service.

Only on the Barcelona-Zaragoza section there were some 15-20 min of recovery time (5-6 min of extra time space between every stop), that's insane for a 300km trip.

Last edited by gincan; August 13th, 2008 at 04:41 PM.
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Old August 13th, 2008, 04:44 PM   #516
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Yes, it is insane so much recovery time. RENFE is afraid of refunding money for delays, I presume...
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000

Last edited by Bitxofo; August 13th, 2008 at 04:55 PM.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 02:18 AM   #517
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I once went from Cordoba to Seville. The train arrived outside Seville station 10 minutes early (on like a 45 minute trip). It then sat there for 40 minutes due to a signal fault.

I got my money back. I had to come back the next day and fill in a long form. It tested my Spanish to its limits .
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Old August 16th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
Some trains stopped/stops but some other trains were/are direct without stops between Madrid and Seville.
I know. I'm spanish.
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Old August 16th, 2008, 08:43 PM   #519
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Last Friday the AVE leaving from Barcelona at 16.30 arrived to Madrid 5 minutes before the time: at 19.03. I was on that train.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 08:32 PM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
Fiat had a project of a super pendolino capable of 320km/h. This super pendolino named "Avrila) also had air brakes.
It was never built.
The story as I know it is a bit different:
The AVRIL train was not the projected (and never built) "Superpendolino":

Avril was projected as an 8-carriages EMU based on independent wheels trucks of very short length (just 1,800 mm.) and capable of speed of 320 kph.
The Superpendolino was meant to be a train joining a revenue speed of 300 kph on HSL lines and tilting mechanism on classical network.

The first never saw the ligth because the tests of the indipendent wheel bogie were not as good as expected (first of all.....)
The latter was abandoned when FIAT got rid of its railroad subdivision (FIAT Ferroviaria) and the French Alstom bought it.
Of course Alstom had to choose between developing its TGV and the Superpendolino and......guess what??
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