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Old September 1st, 2008, 02:25 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
When I was in Barcelona, the plane to Madrid was delayed 6 hours. I bet at least some of those people who had to wait will take the train next time.
Maybe yes, but I suppose that flight was not part of the "puente aéreo", in which you can buy a ticket for one day and travel when you want to. Normally the people who travels form Barcelona to Madrid or vice-versa by plane take the "puente aéreo", with flights every hour. So, these people aren't really affected by delays.

However, to take the "puente aéreo" you have to arrive to the airport 1 hour before the plane leaves (in opposition with the two hours of a normal flight), and once you've landed, take another taxi/metro to the center of the city, while the high speed train leaves you in the center of the city and arriving to the station 10 minutes before is enough.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 04:42 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Koen Acacia View Post
If the problem is the price, then I doubt that those prices will go down by speeding the thing up more. Every extra km of speed is more expensive than the previous one.
At those prices, I'd *definitely* take the AVE over the plane btw. You're just mentioning the cost of the plane ticket here, and for some reason I doubt that getting to/from the Madrid/Barcelona airports has suddenly become free.
From Barcelona centre to BCN El Prat airport by public transport the price is 1,30 or 2,60 euros and it takes by 25 min.
From Madrid centre to MAD Barajas airport by public transport the price is 2 euros and it takes by 45 min.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
When I was in Barcelona, the plane to Madrid was delayed 6 hours. I bet at least some of those people who had to wait will take the train next time.
That is NOT normal... Did you fly with VUELiNG?

You must know that, if the plane is delayed 5 or more hours you can get your money back plus indemnization.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old September 1st, 2008, 07:33 PM   #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
From Barcelona centre to BCN El Prat airport by public transport the price is 1,30 or 2,60 euros and it takes by 25 min.
From Madrid centre to MAD Barajas airport by public transport the price is 2 euros and it takes by 45 min.
In that case, you've spent one hour 10 minutes at minimum in order to save about 10 euro's. Most likely, there were waiting times involved, planes can be delayed, plane companies require you to check in a certain amount of time before lift off, you have to wait for your luggage.. let's be optimistic and assume that all that will take an extra 50 minutes. That's two hours total to save a tenner.

Sorry, and to each his own of course, but I don't work for 5 euro an hour.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 08:24 PM   #544
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But Bitxo works at the BCN airport, so...
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:15 PM   #545
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Yes, plane is better in my case.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 01:01 AM   #546
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[QUOTE=Bitxofo;24756106]From Barcelona centre to BCN El Prat airport by public transport the price is 1,30 or 2,60 euros and it takes by 25 min.
From Madrid centre to MAD Barajas airport by public transport the price is 2 euros and it takes by 45 min.
QUOTE]

45 min from Madrid centre to MAD Barajas?!?!well, if you want to go walking...by metro, from Nuevos Ministerios to Aeropuerto T4 is 20 min.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 04:15 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by gerarsx View Post
45 min from Madrid centre to MAD Barajas?!?!well, if you want to go walking...by metro, from Nuevos Ministerios to Aeropuerto T4 is 20 min.
Nuevos Ministerios is not Madrid centre, but the business district.

From Barajas to Sol (city centre) it takes around 45-50 min. by metro. I do it many times.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 06:43 PM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
Nuevos Ministerios is not Madrid centre, but the business district.

From Barajas to Sol (city centre) it takes around 45-50 min. by metro. I do it many times.

¿?

Nuevos Ministerios is the center. Sol is in the historic center.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 11:27 PM   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
Nuevos Ministerios is not Madrid centre, but the business district.
Come on...
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Old September 4th, 2008, 02:01 AM   #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
¿?

Nuevos Ministerios is the center. Sol is in the historic center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
Come on...
I was talking about historical centre.

And kilometre zero of Spain is in Puerta del Sol.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000

Last edited by Bitxofo; September 4th, 2008 at 02:26 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
I was talking about historical centre.

And kilometre zero of Spain is in Puerta del Sol.

The km. 0 of the Madrid radial motorways.
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Old September 5th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caminerillo View Post
The km. 0 of the Madrid radial motorways.
Not exactly: it is the kilometre zero of Spanish National roads: NI, NII, NIII, NIV, NV and NVI.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old September 5th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
Not exactly: it is the kilometre zero of Spanish National roads: NI, NII, NIII, NIV, NV and NVI.
I know. But is not the kilometre zero of all "spanish national roads", is the kilometre zero of only NI, NII, NIII, NIV, NV and NVI and their respective A-1, A-2, A-3, A-4, A-5 and A-6.

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Old September 6th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #554
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OK now to get the thread back on track I post a poster by Fomento about the viaduct south of Jerez that was inaugurated last summer. The poster basically give some information about the cost of the section put into service and the pic on the right side show the status of the Seville-Cadiz HSR project circa july 2007. The viaduct on the poster is the longest in Spain at 3222 meters. The section put into service was the one between Jerez de la Frontera and El Puerto de Santa Maria, it is possible to see it during its construction in Google Earth. At the same time another section between El Puerto de Santa Maria and Puerto Real was also put into service.

image hosted on flickr

Last edited by gincan; September 6th, 2008 at 10:17 PM.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 02:51 PM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post

That is NOT normal... Did you fly with VUELiNG?

You must know that, if the plane is delayed 5 or more hours you can get your money back plus indemnization.
I wasn't flying to Madrid, fortunately , but I noticed it on the "departing flights" screen.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 02:54 AM   #556
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Btw, are there any plans to connect Barajas Airport with the HSL-network in the near future?
During my last year's trip in Madrid I noticed that there are some platforms at the T4-Train station which weren't used yet.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 03:16 AM   #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doinel View Post
Btw, are there any plans to connect Barajas Airport with the HSL-network in the near future?
During my last year's trip in Madrid I noticed that there are some platforms at the T4-Train station which weren't used yet.
The railway between T4 and Chamartin Station (used for Northern HSL) is already under construction and should be on service in 2010. Conmuter trains will take around 10 minutes on that route. Atocha Station (the main HSL-station) and Chamartin Station are currently connected by conmuter trains in 12 minutes.

There were some talks about building a HSL-station in Barajas, but it was rejected if my memory doesn't fail.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 08:55 PM   #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETR401 View Post
So, there are two different projects sharing the same name.
The only "AVRIL" I knew of (short of: Alta Velocità, Ruote Indipendenti, Leggero) was the project I menctioned before, drawn by the italian engineer Romano Panagin.
I knew nothing about the spanish "Pato Avril". Thanks for the information.
BTW: where can I get some more details of the Avril train you are talking about?
Thanks in advance.
Here you are :

Quote:
Así es AVRIL, el nuevo tren de Talgo Las noticias - Técnica Lunes, 22 de Septiembre de 2008 01:29


"Alta Velocidad Rueda Independiente Ligero - AVRIL". Así de completo y dislocado es el acrónimo de la familia de trenes que la fabricante española Talgo tiene sobre el tablero de diseño. El tren -o más bien su concepto- fue presentado en primicia el jueves 18 de septiembre en una Mesa Redonda en la que no faltó nadie, y con la que los responsables del Máster de Sistemas Ferroviarios que ahora comienza su 7º curso querían dar una visión de conjunto del futuro de estos vehículos. A juzgar por lo expuesto, el de Talgo entra plenamente en esta categoría.


Para empezar con el rosario de sorpresas, la plataforma (lean familia) de trenes AVRIL está diseñada para un máximo de 380 km/h, y sigue el principio básico de los tiempos: en un mercado liberalizado, los operadores ferroviarios quieren trenes más rentables. Y eso significa más capacidad, y menos costes de operación.

Entre las escasas características técnicas de AVRIL que Talgo desveló ante el público, y ante una nutrida representación de su competencia (Siemens, East Japan Rail, Korail, CAF, Siemens, Bombardier), destaca una por encima de todas: la española insiste en el piso bajo, a la misma altura del andén interoperable, que permite que los viajeros suban y bajen con rapidez, ganando así tiempo en las paradas.

Para ello, claro, Talgo mantiene su clásico sistema de rodales (rodaduras con ruedas independientes entre sí) y tren articulado por ellos (sirven de apoyo a un coche y al contiguo). E insiste en sus bondades: es más ligero y más respetuoso con la vía.

Ligero pero matón


También llama la atención poderosamente la idea con la que trabajan en la fabricante para distribuir la tracción a lo largo del tren. Ni tracción concentrada (en las dos cabezas tractoras) ni tracción distribuida (a lo largo del tren), sino todo lo contrario.

El tren será así una ensalada de bojes con ejes motorizados (el 42% de los ejes) y rodales que, según Talgo, permitirá un mejor aprovechamiento de la energía y del espacio: hasta un 87% de la longitud del tren será utilizable para viajeros y servicios, hasta alcanzar las 470 plazas en su configuración estánda, y las 540 en una configuración denominada "de alta capacidad" (su diseño promete ser sorprendente).

Todo un salto si se tiene en cuenta que la Serie 102, actualmente en servicio con la librea de Renfe en servicios comerciales AVE, cuenta apenas con 318. No acaba ahí la cosa, porque Talgo promete que en su AVRIL caben hasta un 18% más de cabezas para cada configuración de las dos citadas, si hablamos de la versión de gálibo ancho.

Y es que la familia AVRIL no es un solo tren, sino una especie de combinación de anchos de vía y tensiones de electrificación difícil de enumerar (sumen y multipliquen por factorial). En su presentación, Talgo aseguró así que trabajan para diseñar trenes que puedan exportarse a países en los que el ancho sea de 1.435, 1.520 y 1.668 mm... o de varios de ellos a la vez, porque el ancho variable también está sobre la mesa.

Como no sólo con raíles se mueve el tren, la empresa señala además que los 8.800 kW de potencia total de los trenes de esta familia (ya parece tribu) podrán obtenerse de hilos de contacto a cuatro tensiones distintas: 25 kV/ 50Hz; 15 kV/16.7 Hz; 3kV CC; 1.5 kV CC. No se despeinen, que no hemos acabado. El tren también podría fabricarse en versión diésel... o híbrida, variando como es obvio la potencia total que es capaz de desarrollar, y con ella la velocidad máxima.

Consumo reducido


Con todas esas características, la empresa espera reducir el peso hasta las 287 toneladas (322 tiene la Serie 102), para reducir al mínimo el consumo energético desde un nivel que ya es pequeño, gracias a la estructura de rodales y al bajo perfil aerodinámico de los coches Talgo. Un 7% menos por kilómetro que su antecesor (que roza los 16 kWh/km) o lo que es lo mismo, un 31% menos por plaza-kilómetro.

Se trata en resumen, y siempre según la fabricante, de un diseño mucho más eficiente que su antecesor, que pretende aprovechar su concepto industrial clásico en un mercado de crecimiento explosivo y lleno de oportunidades, obteniendo lo mejor de la tracción distribuida y la concentrada, y maximizando las variables que más le gustan al operador. Que consuma menos, que quepan más.
http://www.altavelocidad.org/tecnica...se-llama-avril
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Old September 23rd, 2008, 01:00 PM   #559
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Interesting.....


Thank you very much!!!
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Old September 24th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #560
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But forget redesign the front of the train
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