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Old January 6th, 2007, 12:23 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Yes its about spanish trains, but someone here started to talk about Italian trains and putting them down...Given people started comparing the two countries' train systems, its only fair that one can defend the Italian system against the Spanish in this thread, as it still involves the Spanish trains.
People is explaing their own experiences and if your train came 3 hours later and you want explain it, it's natural.This is a forum, and people share our own experiences, and if you have to comment a bad one, you can do. In Spain didnt sell you two different tickets for the same sit or no trains come 3 hours later. I think you would take the energy to trying to improve that instead of refusing and say italian railways are better (No spanish said it, at least, i didnt read it).
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Old January 6th, 2007, 01:04 PM   #62
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- HSL in service (blue)
- HSL under construction (dark green)
- HSL in planning (yellow)
- improvements works on an existing line (light green)
- projected improvements (orange)
- existing line (black)



Again, that's not all HSL.

Anyway, the Pendolino tilting train (as the ETR 600) was developed by Fiat:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5688/img26704qu8.jpg
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Old January 6th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #63
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I've never seen TV's in trains before, that's really cool.
The interior looks very nice and modern, kinda reminds me of an airplane.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #64
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HSL network in Spain will be a combination of new lines (300-350kph), and old upgraded lines (220-250 kph). Generally, new lines will link Madrid to peripherical regions, and upgraded lines will be used as transversal and secondary connections. The objective is linking any provincial capital to Madrid in less than 4 hours and to Barcelona in less than 6.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #65
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Better than inside an airplane, actually!
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Old January 7th, 2007, 01:36 AM   #66
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Its amazing to think that Spain has now superior infrastructure than the UK, which is a richer country...Spain was once the poorest EU country, its quite amazing how it leapfrogged the wealthier nations -- it must be something to do with EU subsidies and in terms of the rail projects, Spain's low density population and large land mass in comparison to the UK would make things easier to build new HSR lines through the countryside... I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:07 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Its amazing to think that Spain has now superior infrastructure than the UK, which is a richer country...Spain was once the poorest EU country, its quite amazing how it leapfrogged the wealthier nations -- it must be something to do with EU subsidies and in terms of the rail projects, Spain's low density population and large land mass in comparison to the UK would make things easier to build new HSR lines through the countryside... I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.
That's not true. Spain never has been the poorest country in EU, do you know Portugal or Greece?
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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:46 AM   #68
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For some time now i have been looking at the remarkable developments in Spain. Both economically and socially. And what strikes me most are the reactions from especially english and italian side (where are the french?). The fact that they put so much effort in talking Spain down just says enough.

Aquablue, it is not just about subsidies. It is about having a a proper vision, proper planning and a system where a large number of construction companies compete for building stretches of the tracks. Thereby limiting the construction costs. Bear in mind that is no coincidence that Spanish companies are at the forewront in worldwide infrastructure construction/management.

Unlike some countries where no planning seems to exist, good money is thrown after bad and 'incentives' need to be offered to get the contracts.

Spain has indeed been receiving - and still is to a lesser extent - large sums of cohesion funds. Maybe we should conclude they put it at good work.

Then again, it is not one big success story. There have been some serious delays - like most of the infrastructure projects of this magnitude - and I seriously doubt it the HSL will reach Barcelona by the end of this year.

Also, I doesn't seem HSL lines are easier to build in Spain. It is a country full of mountainranges and its cities are densely populated. A lot of tunnel boring is involved as well building structures to cross the many valleys.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:52 AM   #69
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alot of people tend to forget that Spain has a trillion dollar economy and should be part of the G8. Most EU money goes to the poorer regions of Spain like Andalucia and Extremadura. Madrid, as well as Barcelona, is one of the wealthiest cities in europe and has one of the highest GDPs. Spain is very mountainous and most these projects are more difficult to build then in other flat nations. Spain has made a concerted effort to connect all their densely populated cities and they seem to plan and carry out their plans very effeciently(unlike many other nations). Spain has come a long way from the days of when it was under the rule of the tyrranical dictator Franco. But it has managed to show a great deal of resolve and ingenuity. I do agree, I do feel there are alot of jealous forumers from other nations that critique Spain. Maybe they should stop being jealous and look at that innovative thinking that the Spaniards bring forth.
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Last edited by oduguy1999; January 7th, 2007 at 03:59 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 04:16 AM   #70
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Another hijacked thread! Yeah!!

Bragveza rules.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:05 AM   #71
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Excellent shots.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 01:19 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.
That's true in the interior of the country (like the plateau of Castile), but not in the coastal regions, which have a pretty high density.

Moreover, Spain is the second most mountainous European country (after Switzerland), so we have to build big tunnels.

Spain will spend 43% of the 2005-2020 Strategic Plan for Infrastructures and Transport budget in railways (more than €100,000 million).
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:54 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodine View Post
Another hijacked thread! Yeah!!

Bragveza rules.
ˇViva la Bragveza!
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Old January 7th, 2007, 06:44 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Its amazing to think that Spain has now superior infrastructure than the UK, which is a richer country...
Quote:
Spain was once the poorest EU country
, its quite amazing how it leapfrogged the wealthier nations -- it must be something to do with EU subsidies and in terms of the rail projects, Spain's low density population and large land mass in comparison to the UK would make things easier to build new HSR lines through the countryside... I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.
Spain was one of the poorer but no the poorest (Portugal, Greece, central european countries, eastern european countries). And Spain was the richest country once too (century XVI) and?

Contruction in Spain is very difficult because is the second country in Europe in highlands (after Switzland). The average of altitude in Spain is about 700m over sea level. So it's difficult to build in a country full of range of mountains and try to contruct a train line from 0 meters (coast) to 700m (madrid altitude) or 800 m (most of Castillians cities are over 800m, Soria and Avila 1200m)


Last edited by frozen; January 7th, 2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:32 AM   #75
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I just wait for December of this year 2007:

Barcelona-Madrid in 2 hours 15 minutes, direct trains!
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:59 AM   #76
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To be honest, having to build tunnels, etc.. is nothing compared to dealing with citizen groups that are deadset on preventing their precious countryside from dissapearing or being divided by HSR infrastructure.. That is why I mentioned that in the UK it is more difficult to piece together such projects as there are more towns and villages to bypass, more opposition to percieved environmental impacts, etc.. This is of course a result of its higher population density. Spain's cities are dense, but its interior is rather not, and the majority of rail lines run through the interior. Not through cities but only ending/starting in them.

Having vast open spaces composed of mountain ranges and valleys like in interior spain is a detriment and it certaintly costs more in construction, but in reality it is a blessing in disguise. This is because the gelogical engineering challenges are not as severe a setback compared to the iron fist of political opposition and citzen organized protest groups which more often than not prevent such massive projects from ever getting rolling in the first place. This of course is resultant from the difficulty in aquiring enough land in the immediate vicinity of farms, small villages, etc. that lie along the various route options in such a country as the UK or elswhere.

Last edited by aquablue; January 8th, 2007 at 07:07 AM.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 04:12 AM   #77
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You're totally right, aquablue.
And an excellent post, by the way.
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Old January 9th, 2007, 03:15 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
To be honest, having to build tunnels, etc.. is nothing compared to dealing with citizen groups that are deadset on preventing their precious countryside from dissapearing or being divided by HSR infrastructure.. That is why I mentioned that in the UK it is more difficult to piece together such projects as there are more towns and villages to bypass, more opposition to percieved environmental impacts, etc.. This is of course a result of its higher population density. Spain's cities are dense, but its interior is rather not, and the majority of rail lines run through the interior. Not through cities but only ending/starting in them.

Having vast open spaces composed of mountain ranges and valleys like in interior spain is a detriment and it certaintly costs more in construction, but in reality it is a blessing in disguise. This is because the gelogical engineering challenges are not as severe a setback compared to the iron fist of political opposition and citzen organized protest groups which more often than not prevent such massive projects from ever getting rolling in the first place. This of course is resultant from the difficulty in aquiring enough land in the immediate vicinity of farms, small villages, etc. that lie along the various route options in such a country as the UK or elswhere.

So then can you explain me how is that the Uk has such a dense regular rails ,roads and motorways networks? I guess that all the troubles you mention above didn´t applied for that kinf of works...they just apply for the HST network.

The UK doesn´t have a HST network, not because the citizens oposition, neither because it can´t afford it, but because their politicians until now are lacking the willing of doing it.

See Germany, they have a similar population density and similar conditions, but they didn´t lack the willing.
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Old January 10th, 2007, 12:53 AM   #79
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estos trenes son una mi3rda...










just kidding. me gustaron mucho. quede muy impresionado con estos hipermodernos trenes. i'm very jealous. i wish we had trains like those in the US and A.
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Old January 10th, 2007, 05:50 AM   #80
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Cabin of the train:

[IMG]http://i13.************/2q80t1u.jpg[/IMG]
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川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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