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Old May 28th, 2010, 12:30 PM   #881
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Yeah, I suppose so. I'm just thinking there must be a reason for the Port of Barcelona being keen in the first place on having a standard gauge link, but I guess it may the port company wishing to be in a position to offer the market intermodal services, as oppose to anyone at the port actually knowing there will be a market for them.

I had at first, as my previous posts show, been getting enthusiastic about intra-European trade, but then I thought that perhaps Barcelona is not far enough away from Perpignan to make much difference. In other words, quite a bit of Spanish trade from the Barcelona region is already going via swap bodies on trucks to Perpignan, where they are then put on trains.

But then again, I guess a link into Barcelona will make intermodal much more 'sexy' in marketing terms. It can only be a matter of time before proposals come up to make the line to Valencia dual-gauge perhaps.
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Old June 5th, 2010, 01:59 AM   #882
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Direct from the Spanish Forum thanks to Mr Sanlucar-Playa
This is Girona, a french TurboTrain crossed the border! is there to carry out ERMTS testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlucar-Playa View Post
Algunas fotos de hoy:

En Llers, cerca de Figueras:
















Y en Vilafant, pegando al mismo de Figueras:






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Old June 5th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylandman View Post
updated map of the spanish HST network in December 2006



Green lines : on service
Yellow lines: U/C
Red lines: planned
AVE FAST TRAIN Tren de Alta Velocidad Malaga Madrid, TVSpain



Quote:
The service of the high speed AVE train from Madrid to Malaga opens on 23rd December 2007 by the Spanish President Rodríguez Zapatero. There are 11 trains a day going in each direction. The travel takes only 2.5 hours each way with the maximum speed of 350 km per hour. Special thanks to Ministerio de Fomento http://www.fomento.es and Administrador de Infraestructuras Ferroviarias http://www.adif.es for help in creating this breathtaking video. Embed this video in high quality, see how the train line was build and watch the new train Station in Malaga (coming soon) and find out how to but tickets at http://www.tvspain.tv.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #884
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Dude what your posting is out of date, things have changed a little since 2006.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 03:07 PM   #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres_Low View Post

Dude what your posting is out of date, things have changed a little since 2006.
Yes I know, but there was not video of Madrid-Malaga on this thread. So what new on this lane since 2007 ?
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:29 AM   #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
Yes I know, but there was not video of Madrid-Malaga on this thread. So what new on this lane since 2007 ?
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Old June 17th, 2010, 03:23 AM   #887
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Hi from Spain (am I mistaken in thinking that there arenīt that many Spanish contributors to this thread?).

This map above is a little out of date too. It does not entirely feature the HSL from Olmedo to Zamora and Orense, which is also under construction. Only the stretch between Orense and santiago is -itīs true though that itīs the most advanced.

By Christmas (maybe earlier?), the new HSL from Madrid to Cuenca, Requena/Utiel and Valencia, and a branch from Cuenca to Albacete will be open too.

By that time the mixed traffic HSL from Perpignan to Figueras is also expected to open, that would allow TGV trains to run into Spain (two Paris-Perpignan TGV would carry on to Figueras).

The strech between Girona and Mollet of the Barcelona-Figueras HSL, which will be used only by standard-gauge freight trains till the day the rest of the HSL is opens, is also expected to open by Christmas.
Freight standard gauge trains would be able to reach Barcelona at last.

Other issues: Due to crisis the construction of several HSL is/will be delayed, others will be built "maņana". Arenīt crisis wonderful?

Last edited by 437.001; June 17th, 2010 at 06:15 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 06:34 AM   #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres_Low View Post


Thanks 437.001 for the detailed info, as K mentioned above, do you think is technically feasible a service like a s130 from Murcia crossing the French border up to Paris, what is more, adding Talgo tren hotel cars?

would SNCF let spanish high speed trains running free on the other side of the border? Iīd love to see that...
Hi there, and sorry for the delay in my answer, I had not entered this thread in months. Sorry again.

Technically feasible it is. But Iīm not sure it is going to be worth it, because in several years the whole connection to France will be standardized in both gauge and electrical tension... Besides, the TGV-Dasye trains that are going to run these lines from Spain to France and Switzerland are going to be polytension (is that the right word?).

By the way, dunno if anyone else posted this info, but Iīve read somewhere -French or Spanish mag, I canīt remember very well-Iīve read an article about the train schedule between Spain, France and Switzerland.

It was something thus:

-One TGV Madrid-Barcelona-Geneva per day.
-One TGV Madrid-Barcelona-Paris per day.
-One TGV Madrid-Barcelona-Marseilles per day
-One TGV Barcelona-Toulouse-Bordeaux per day.
-One TGV Barcelona-Marseilles per day.
-One TGV Barcelona-Lyon per day.
-Two TGV at least Barcelona to Paris per day.
-One Barcelona to Lille TGV per day, stopping at Disneyland Paris, and Roissy CDG Airport.

Well, thatīs a starter (to open somewhere between 2012 and 2014). Sorry but I canīt recall the exact intermediate stops completely, but concerned are Zaragoza, Camp de Tarragona, Girona, Figueres, Perpignan, Narbonne, Beziers, Montpellier, Nimes, Avignon, Aix en Provence, Valence, Bellegarde.

Two routes which look VERY promising are Barcelona-Toulouse-Bordeaux, and Barcelona-Lyon.

Pity thereīs no direct link to Toulon and Nice, nor to Brussels, London and Zurich. I suppose it is just a matter of time.

As for Italy, I really donīt have a clue whether that will be possible in the near future...
Theyīll have to stick to their night Talgo Trainhotel Barcelona-Torino-Milan.
Maybe if thereīs a TGV Barcelona to Nice then it could carry on to Savona and Genova... (???)
Time will tell.

And about Eastern France and Germany, there was rumours of something concerning Strasbourg, Luxembourg, Stuttgart and Frankfurt/Main, but I dontīt think these rumours were talking about next week, precisely...

Cheers!

Last edited by 437.001; June 17th, 2010 at 06:45 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 07:38 AM   #889
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I read in a french railway magazine that Renfe and SNCF will choose one of those 5 candidates for trains :
- Talgo
- Caf
- Siemens
- ETR
- and TGV Duplex which is favorite because of increase capacity.

Is it your opinion from Spain ?

By the way, the LGV bypass around Nimes and Montpellier are U-C for this France-Spain project.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 12:35 PM   #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
By the way, dunno if anyone else posted this info, but Iīve read somewhere -French or Spanish mag, I canīt remember very well-Iīve read an article about the train schedule between Spain, France and Switzerland.
The wikipedia site on the line has a table. You can see it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_Per...%80%93Figueres

Quote:
Pity thereīs no direct link to Toulon and Nice, nor to Brussels, London and Zurich. I suppose it is just a matter of time.
Well, continuing beyond France would multiply the number of safety systems that would need to be installed in these trains. So I think we'll have to wait til ETCS gets more widespread. In the mean time good connections to Brussel and London exist in Lille, and connections to anywhere in Switzerland exist in Geneva.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
I read in a french railway magazine that Renfe and SNCF will choose one of those 5 candidates for trains :
- Talgo
- Caf
- Siemens
- ETR
- and TGV Duplex which is favorite because of increase capacity.

Is it your opinion from Spain ?

By the way, the LGV bypass around Nimes and Montpellier are U-C for this France-Spain project.
I believe itīs going to be TGV-Dasye Duplex.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 12:49 PM   #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

It was something thus:

-One TGV Madrid-Barcelona-Geneva per day.
-One TGV Madrid-Barcelona-Paris per day.
-One TGV Madrid-Barcelona-Marseilles per day
-One TGV Barcelona-Toulouse-Bordeaux per day.
-One TGV Barcelona-Marseilles per day.
-One TGV Barcelona-Lyon per day.
-Two TGV at least Barcelona to Paris per day.
-One Barcelona to Lille TGV per day, stopping at Disneyland Paris, and Roissy CDG Airport.

Well, thatīs a starter (to open somewhere between 2012 and 2014). Sorry but I canīt recall the exact intermediate stops completely, but concerned are Zaragoza, Camp de Tarragona, Girona, Figueres, Perpignan, Narbonne, Beziers, Montpellier, Nimes, Avignon, Aix en Provence, Valence, Bellegarde.

Two routes which look VERY promising are Barcelona-Toulouse-Bordeaux, and Barcelona-Lyon.



Cheers!
Once the strech pictured above opens, trains will have to stop in that provisional station and passengers switch from SNFC trains to Renfe trains to continue? until what you say come to reality only depends on the works being carried out in Barcelona city (Sagrera tunnel). My question is if is only the works being carried out in Barcelona city (Sagrera tunnel) the bottleneck for a direct connection between Spain and France/Switzerland
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Old June 19th, 2010, 01:20 PM   #893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
And about Eastern France and Germany, there was rumours of something concerning Strasbourg, Luxembourg, Stuttgart and Frankfurt/Main, but I dontīt think these rumours were talking about next week, precisely...

Cheers!
This was probably to show what great possibilities there will be once the first section of LGV Rhin-Rhone will take up operations. But they had better first start a train Frankfurt-Marseille (at present there is no such train, anybody travelling from Germany to southern France has to change several times; DB has talked about the possibility of introducing such a train post 2011).
A direct train Frankfurt-Barcelona is still hard to imagine.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 01:55 PM   #894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
This was probably to show what great possibilities there will be once the first section of LGV Rhin-Rhone will take up operations. But they had better first start a train Frankfurt-Marseille (at present there is no such train, anybody travelling from Germany to southern France has to change several times; DB has talked about the possibility of introducing such a train post 2011).
A direct train Frankfurt-Barcelona is still hard to imagine.
It all depend on how competitive the airline industry is, should there be a hike in ticket prices for airtravel then people will shift to trains even if the traveltime is twice or even trice that of flying.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 02:48 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
It all depend on how competitive the airline industry is, should there be a hike in ticket prices for airtravel then people will shift to trains even if the traveltime is twice or even trice that of flying.
It is not just the comparison of time. What is important is how to use the time.

Trains which travel for 5...6 hours are limited usefulness. If the train travels by day, it spends a lot of useful time and the passenger could save a couple of hours by flying. If the train travels by night, it is too short for good night's sleep.

Whereas 8+ hour train is better. It can travel through night and passengers get proper night's sleep - provided they have sleeping berths on train. If the passengers travelled faster by plane they would have to travel by day and spend a hotel night at origin or destination.

At present it seems all AVE and TGV trains are seat only. Are there any high-speed sleeper trains under construction? How long would it take to travel Madrid-Brussels? Madrid-London? Madrid-Berlin?
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Old June 19th, 2010, 05:59 PM   #896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
At present it seems all AVE and TGV trains are seat only. Are there any high-speed sleeper trains under construction? How long would it take to travel Madrid-Brussels? Madrid-London? Madrid-Berlin?
I believe China is intends to run sleepers once its high-speed net comes into operation. In Europe, where the provincialism of companies like Eurostar and Thalys prevails, I believe the nobody has seriously thought of this yet.
Personally, I find high-speed sleepers in Western Europe an interesting concept if they manage to offer competitive prices. Seeing Elipsos' rather wild prices even for conventional international night trains, I admit I am a bit sceptic.
If we take the estimated travel times indicated on the English wikipedia site, after completion of the Barcelona link-up, trave times would be

Madrid-Brussels 11:14
Madrid-London 13:30
Madrid-Berlin 17:45

This is based on the time high-speed trains need nowadays on these routes, so not including possible future line improvements, such as Rhin-Rhone or in the German southwest. So Madrid-Brussels and Madrid-London seem a definite possibility for a civilized night train; Berlin seems somewhat beyond their usual time scope. However Cologne or Frankfurt, also important railway hubs, seem a possibility.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
I believe China is intends to run sleepers once its high-speed net comes into operation.
They already do. Sleeper trains run at 200 km/h on old railways, covering Beijing-Shanghai in 10:04, and Beijing-Hangzhou in about 11:30.

Since Madrid-Paris looks to be over 9 hours, it would also be convenient for overnight trip. What are the plans for trains?
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Old June 20th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #898
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres_Low View Post
Once the strech pictured above opens, trains will have to stop in that provisional station and passengers switch from SNFC trains to Renfe trains to continue? until what you say come to reality only depends on the works being carried out in Barcelona city (Sagrera tunnel). My question is if is only the works being carried out in Barcelona city (Sagrera tunnel) the bottleneck for a direct connection between Spain and France/Switzerland
Once the stretch from Perpignan to Figueres opens, two Sncf TGV Paris-Perpignan will carry on to Figueres. There Renfe will provide a direct correspondence to Barcelona.

The main problem in the construction of this line are the two urban HSR-only tunnels underneath Barcelona and Girona, whose construction suffers a severe delay due to its extreme complication and some good deal of NYMBY-ism.
It is true though that the HSR tunnel underneath Barcelona goes right under the Sagrada Familia Church, Gaudiīs masterpiece, and Barcelonians have their eyebrows raised because of that.

And yes, the two bottlenecks for this HSL are the two tunnels, the rest of the line is at advanced stages of construction or already finished.
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Old June 20th, 2010, 01:27 AM   #899
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Freight trains will use the tunnel in Girona, or will have a surface route outside the city? The existing railway viaduct and station will be replaced by the tunnel (that would be double gauge) or will be maintained?

Thanks in advance
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Old June 20th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #900
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I doubt high-speed sleepers will be viable in Europe. Non-HS sleepers, despite having the same alleged advantages of "travelling overnight", have been cut steadily over the last decade. Sure, someone will point one or two successful services or cite a case of a relative who use those trains, but the European offer for such trains is diminishing fast.

The price of comfortable cabins (not couchettes where you share space with strangers, something that will not get a grip with high-income costumers) is way too high anyway. The lure of € 80 MAD-FRA flights will preclude any viable train service in the route.

If people don't travel anymore in significant number in night trains on shorter routes, why would them travel in longer distance routes? The marginal time advantage of plane is even higher for those long-distance (train) routes compared to short-haul flights, as the proportion of fixes time used in security and check-in at airports is essentially the same.

So I highly doubt night-trains, cost-inefficient as they are (if they were to compete with hotels in comfort with single en-suites with private bathrooms albeit small), will have a comeback in Europe.

It needs to be taken into account that many HS links are shut down for traffic at night too, though this is not a major issue.
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