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Old September 20th, 2010, 03:32 AM   #981
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Not only because while the soil beneath the English Channel is stable, the Gilbraltar-Morocco crossing is home to a tectonic plate border while seismic activity is high.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 09:05 AM   #982
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I have nothing against competing rail companies setting up schemes to allow connections between two rival trains. My fierce opposition is to have someone from GOVERNMENT to sit down and decide by her/himself that a train must leave Berlin to Hamburg every hour and stop at a/b/c and not c/d/e.
But you have no problem with the GOVERNMENT dictating that we should no longer be allowed to travel anonymously. A strange kind of libertarian you are...
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Old September 20th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #983
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Spain is going to open its tracks to private competitors. I said again and again that I don't opposte gov't building transport infrastructure (it's one of its functions) as far as this infrastructure is to be used only or almost only by private operators (e.g., the buses, trains, boats, ferries, airplanes running over it).
In other words: your opposition is purely ideological. You don't look at the quality of a system, you just want it to be consistent with your ideology. To paraphrase Deng Xiaoping: whether the cat catches mice or not is irrelevant to you, all you care about is if it's black or white.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 03:58 PM   #984
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In other words: your opposition is purely ideological. You don't look at the quality of a system, you just want it to be consistent with your ideology. To paraphrase Deng Xiaoping: whether the cat catches mice or not is irrelevant to you, all you care about is if it's black or white.
Democracy, respect for freedom of speech and due process of law are not always the most efficient or practical ways of handling certain short-term issues, yet we abide (the developed World) to them because they are above other practicalities.

I don't care if centralized schedule would yield a better timetable and faster connections for users of PT on short term. I couldn't care less, indeed: reasonably free markets and lack of involvement of State on running milk-and-butter daily transport direct operations are more important than whether users will suffer from a degraded service, because they are tantamount to our modern society where people are free do buy, own and operate their own vehicles.

Is the same reasoning I apply when I hear some fringe politicians supporting causes I don't. As much as some specific standpoints annoy and offend me as a citizen, I prefer them to be free to broadcast bigotry or racial slurs than have the State mingling with freedom of speech or imposing censorship, even it it can cause some pain and suffering amidst the offended parties (like me) by such hateful speech.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 05:41 PM   #985
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Linking your "more deregulation" campaign to not only the concept of democracy but now also to the right to a fair trial still does not mean that there is an actual link between these things. In other words: it's just ideological, nothing more.

Also, the fact that some train is being controlled by someone on the government payroll instead of a for-profit company's is in no way "are tantamount [sic] to our modern society where people are free do buy, own and operate their own vehicles."
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Old September 20th, 2010, 05:45 PM   #986
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We got a final date for the Madrid-Valencia HSL official opening: the first service will be served on december the 20th-22nd

More than 300km, only 90 minutes trip
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Old September 20th, 2010, 08:47 PM   #987
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We got a final date for the Madrid-Valencia HSL official opening: the first service will be served on december the 20th-22nd

More than 300km, only 90 minutes trip
How often do they stick with these deadlines in Spain? (I'm doubting them, just asking so I can compare with standard practice in Italy).
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Old September 20th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #988
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How often do they stick with these deadlines in Spain? (I'm doubting them, just asking so I can compare with standard practice in Italy).
well, government predictions are pretty bad, but always before the construction of the HSL. Just an example, the HSL between Valladolid and Burgos, should have been finished in 2013, but now it is due to 2014.

But this HSL is already built, it is in a testing period. Yesterday, the first train tried the new rail system.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 08:08 AM   #989
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How often do they stick with these deadlines in Spain? (I'm doubting them, just asking so I can compare with standard practice in Italy).
One thing I know for sure is that the spanish delays are much smaller than those in Belgium/The Netherlands. How much of HSL-Zuid/L3/L4 is in use at the moment (on full speed) and what was the original due date?

So if a date slips one or 2 years in Spain, that's not such a big deal.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 02:34 PM   #990
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One thing I know for sure is that the spanish delays are much smaller than those in Belgium/The Netherlands. How much of HSL-Zuid/L3/L4 is in use at the moment (on full speed) and what was the original due date?

So if a date slips one or 2 years in Spain, that's not such a big deal.
Agreed. The HSL-Zuid is 4 years behind schedule.
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:26 AM   #991
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well...we have the official date for the so long expected opening and put of service of the madrid-valencia high speed line....the line is to be opened on december the 18th....!!!! 3 days before, the 15th, the branch from madrid to albacete...(that branch will be extended to alicante in 2 years)...will be inaugurated too...
Well, our politicians claim that with these opening Spain can boast of having the longest high speed track in the world...but i dont rely too much about their statements....
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Old October 4th, 2010, 12:57 AM   #992
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More detailed:

December the 12th: Perpignan-Figueres (that will be operated by Sncf, so it is a TGV, not an AVE)

December the 15th: Madrid Atocha-Cuenca-Albacete

December the 18th: Cuenca-Requena-Valencia
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Old October 4th, 2010, 01:16 AM   #993
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Originally Posted by windawinda77 View Post
well...we have the official date for the so long expected opening and put of service of the madrid-valencia high speed line....the line is to be opened on december the 18th....!!!! 3 days before, the 15th, the branch from madrid to albacete...(that branch will be extended to alicante in 2 years)...will be inaugurated too...
Well, our politicians claim that with these opening Spain can boast of having the longest high speed track in the world...but i dont rely too much about their statements....
will spain have more than 7000km HSR? That's what China already has, and counting.
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Old October 4th, 2010, 03:07 PM   #994
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I'm not spanish, but the extension of the rail system must be compared to population density and the nation extension...
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Old October 4th, 2010, 03:37 PM   #995
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will spain have more than 7000km HSR? That's what China already has, and counting.
China has 30 times the population and 20 times the size of the spanish mainland. The 5 largest metropolitan areas in Spain are now connected to the HSR and by 2012 7 of the 10 largest on the mainland will have direct acces to HSR. In terms of global impact, China will not catch up to spain for another 20 years atlest. But hey, come back when China has a 100.000 km of HSR and we can start to debate which country has the largest HSR network
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Old October 6th, 2010, 08:07 PM   #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windawinda77 View Post
well...we have the official date for the so long expected opening and put of service of the madrid-valencia high speed line....the line is to be opened on december the 18th....!!!! 3 days before, the 15th, the branch from madrid to albacete...(that branch will be extended to alicante in 2 years)...will be inaugurated too...
Well, our politicians claim that with these opening Spain can boast of having the longest high speed track in the world...but i dont rely too much about their statements....
Not the longest network in km for sure, but probably Spain, right now, have the most densify HSL network, comparing km of HSL network with country inhabitants.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 05:38 AM   #997
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Spanish HSL are nearly all dedicated to passenger traffic, none of the new radial lines are designed for freight traffic, except the Barcelona-France part and maybe the Madrid-Lisbon line. The few surviving freight trains will continue to run on the existing lines, thats why they should be converted to standard gauge.
Hi,

Converting the gauge at this moment would be a chaos ... think that there are lots of lines used by commuter trains that can't be closed for more than a few days without collapsing some cities...

BUT the goverment have that in mind, all new trains may be converted easily if needed and when the lines are renewed (or new lines are built in old gauge) they use "something" (that i don't know how exactly works) that allows to change the gauge easily (hundreds of km in days).
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Old October 13th, 2010, 11:08 AM   #998
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Most tracks when renovated have dual gauge sleepers (1435 and 1668 together, or 1435 or 1668, but not at the same time).

The fact is that outside the Cercanías networks of Madrid, Barcellona and a few other cities most lines have no more than 20 trains per day. On a saturday I travelled from Madrid to Zaragoza on the old line, about 3h45m. I crossed three passenger trains and one freight train: that's nothing.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 02:02 PM   #999
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Most tracks when renovated have dual gauge sleepers (1435 and 1668 together, or 1435 or 1668, but not at the same time).
The biggest problem could be the stations. when you convert a line from 1668 to 1435 by moving one rail on existing sleepers you also move the trains 116 mm to one side. That means that all platforms have to be adapted too.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #1000
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The biggest problem could be the stations. when you convert a line from 1668 to 1435 by moving one rail on existing sleepers you also move the trains 116 mm to one side. That means that all platforms have to be adapted too.
Are the double gauge sleepers meant to convert by moving one rail, or both?

How does the loading gauge of 1668 mm Spanish network compare to the loading gauge of 1435 mm AVE?
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