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Old June 8th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #1401
alserrod
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The first check-in controls in Spain was only in the entrance of the platform. You had to show the ticket to entry the platform and without it, you had to remain outside of the platform (but you could remain close to it).
Later they made complicated, not useful and stronger... but if they just ask for ticket in the platform entry it will be very easy and faster... (and cheaper for the company)
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Old June 8th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #1402
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Many railway actually like it when people come to their stations. It is to the advantage of the railway company when a railway station becomes a lively place that functions as the anchor of a city. Where I live the station is where youngsters meet up to go out for example. It's a place where I go shopping.
It's exactly by making the station a "social" place that some countries are now seeing the rise of the "transit generation". A generation of young people so used to organizing their lives around public transit that they don't even bother getting a driving license anymore. And this is good news for the railway, as these transit orientated youngsters will provide them with an income stream that can last for decades.
I'm a functionalist. I believe in strict functional places. I dislike, for instance, people using streets (even pedestrianized ones) for parties or concerts. I'd rather have a "event space open lot" somewhere in the city for that. I abhor mixed used zoning/buildings to my bare bones.

I also believe in the general idea of making public spaces that have specific functions sterile, have a global/un-localzied look, and to a point impersonal. Not a cozy place, but a cool (aesthetically) one. Hence my ideal railway station would be very futuristic with long walls with LED displays changing colors, almost no bench in the access tunnels or non-paid passenger areas, and a monumental aspect that puts people for going there except for travelling or drop their jaws in awe and move one. This is beyond rail travel, I'd rather have no "hangout general spots" in universities (Except for students, I'm a huge fan of rural campuses disconnected from the urban tissue), museums, police stations, general administration buildings, train stations, airports etc.

To a point, I like new stations such as TGV Avignon (monumentality) and Liège-Guillemins (doesn't have much to do if not travelling).

Spain is doing a good job with some stations, but not others.
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Old June 8th, 2012, 04:01 PM   #1403
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Quote:
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I'm a functionalist. I believe in strict functional places. I dislike, for instance, people using streets (even pedestrianized ones) for parties or concerts. I'd rather have a "event space open lot" somewhere in the city for that. I abhor mixed used zoning/buildings to my bare bones.

I also believe in the general idea of making public spaces that have specific functions sterile, have a global/un-localzied look, and to a point impersonal. Not a cozy place, but a cool (aesthetically) one.
You would have felt right at home in Stalinist Russia in the 50ies...
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Old June 8th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #1404
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Sometimes an image is better...

This is a sample of the station in my city



Picture is taken from Arrivals area. Conveyors are ready only for going from platform to the hall (not upside down).

Four lines in the right, International gauge. Four lines in the left, Iberian gauge. In the end of the station (outside the building) there is an interchange system to cross from Iberian gauge to International gauge. As you know, all high speed lines are international gauges, so trains from Bilbao, Valladolid, Irun, Vigo, etc... will run until the entrance to Zaragoza by the Iberian gauge (no other alternative) and there they change the gauge in several minutes. They enter in the station in the lines 1 to 4.

Mainly Line 2 is to Barcelona (train stopped) and Line 3 is to Madrid (train entering the station). You get there by the same platform and is bigger than the other ones.

In the departure halls you have a restaurant, some shops, press, cafeteria, etc... and of course, the ticket selling office
In the arrival halls you have a little cafeteria (for those who are waiting for a passenger), a tourist office, train customer service, rent a car...

The street in the departures hall has a taxi area prepared only for short stops (leaving a passenger there). In the arrivals it is prepared for parking a lot of taxis.

The Iberian gauge lines (5 to 8) are used even by regional trains or by commuter train, so you can enter by any hall (they are used mainly for very local traffic).

In any case you can use the ramp in the middle of any platform and, downer them, change platform with minimal distance or... going to the parking (without using departures or arrivals halls).


The procedure NOW is the following:

- For the area before the conveyors you have to pass the baggage scanner and show you have a ticket (only to know that you are going to take a train)
- To use the conveyors and arrive the platform, you have to give your ticket. It will be cancelled, scanned (e-tickets are scanned and they go to a computering system). This is the "check-in control". Just one or two people who checks your ticket before taking the conveyor to get the platforms.

In fact there are two different check-in. One if you are in departures hall, and second one if you are in the parking. You can take anyone, doesn't matter. Both check-in will give (computered) the list of tickets checked to train conductor (who has the unique and only official list for the train). If your ticket was requested to get into the platform, conductor will not ask it to you.


Before setting the baggage scanners, people could arrive until the entrance of the conveyors... but only passengers with a ticket could enter there.

There is a service for those passengers disabled or with any handicap for traveling alone. Should you take one of them to the station you may advice some hours before and they will receive them in the last point you can arrive and will take his/her baggage and help to get into the train (or upside down if it is an arrival).
I have seen it only two or three times. It is not usual for these people to travel alone and more often that other person travel with them and helps. My father travelled with my grandmother and, obviously he carried all for both.


Should they remove baggage scanners, means they will allow to everybody to arrive until the entrance of conveyors... but conveyors will be used only by passengers.

To say goodbye... you may say it in the hall.




P.S. Take a look about station dimmensions and....... NO COLUMNS IN THE MIDDLE.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 12:28 AM   #1405
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Has anything been done in the mean time? A fence would have been easy to implement.
I have never seen a station with a fence between tracks in order to prevent people from crossing them, people should know that they cannot cross the tracks if there's an underpass, no fences are needed.

I know Castelldefels Platja station very well and the 2010 accident was 100% fault of that people who decided to cross the railway tracks instead of using the underpass. They wanted to arrive as soon as possible to the beach and they did not want to wait until the underpass was empty. Furthermore it is quite obvious that a lot of people were drunk that night (I don't mean the victims, but most people get drunk every year in Spain on the 23rd of June), so it had nothing to do with the station.

The only possibility one could allege is that the underpass was new, because until that year there used to be a bridge connecting both platforms, and it closed few months before the accident, when the new underpass was built. Therefoe, people could have not seen the underpass and think that the only possible way to leave the station was to cross the tracks, but that's quite absurd.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #1406
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I have never seen a station with a fence between tracks in order to prevent people from crossing them, people should know that they cannot cross the tracks if there's an underpass, no fences are needed.
Strange. In Hungary ALL stations have fences between the tracks. However people usually cut the fence ang keep crossing the tracks at grade eliminating the using of underpasses.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #1407
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Quote:
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I have never seen a station with a fence between tracks in order to prevent people from crossing them, people should know that they cannot cross the tracks if there's an underpass, no fences are needed.
I've seen them quite often. Especially in stations where platform access once was at grade and is now via an underpass.

A line gets modernized, frequencies doubled, and underpasses installed, but if you don't do anything people will keep crossing the tracks as they've always done. Here fences become very useful...
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Old June 10th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #1408
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We should remember that, even in little stations, in Spain there are some platforms that invites you not to cross the tracks (too high to "climb") and other ones that are prepared to cross the tracks in a considered point.

In the case we talk they had the bad lucky that they take off the train in the last wagon and cross the tracks "behind" the train and not in front of them. So then, they couldn't take care that a long distance train with non stop there will arrive very fast (maybe passengers in the first wagons had the same situation but... they could see a train arriving).

Furthermore, the passenger pass under the tracks was not prepared for so many passengers at the same time and the long distance train was delayed. It had to be there about 30 minutes before (but I am sure no one knew its schedule).


There were too many things to learn.
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Old June 10th, 2012, 11:25 PM   #1409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I've seen them quite often. Especially in stations where platform access once was at grade and is now via an underpass.

A line gets modernized, frequencies doubled, and underpasses installed, but if you don't do anything people will keep crossing the tracks as they've always done. Here fences become very useful...
I don't know how's the situation in other countries, but in Spain, at least in Barcelona area, these fences don't exist. Installing them would suppose to acknowledge that people are stupid and cannot cross where indicated. In stations spoken messages are continuously repeated reminding people not to cross the tracks to change platforms (and I think that's too much).
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Old June 18th, 2012, 03:58 PM   #1410
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Yesterday, 17th June, the first regular Talgo S-730 hybrid (diesel-electric) automatic gauge (iberian and standard) train begun operation. At the beginning it will run between Alicante and Galicia (La Coruña and Vigo), about 1100 km length. Speed will be something like 180km/h diesel, 220 km/h iberian gauge, and 240 km/h standard gauge. More info on
- http://www.ferropedia.es/wiki/Renfe_Serie_730
- http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...o#post92468714
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Old June 18th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #1411
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And yesterday it started a direct service too. Valencia-Sevilla and return (go on morning, back on afternoon).
This train has a connection with another train at Cordoba to go to Malaga. It runs 300 km/h and do not stop at Madrid. They approach there taking line Valencia-Madrid and later changes to the Madrid-Sevilla several km. southern Madrid.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 03:48 AM   #1412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I've seen them quite often. Especially in stations where platform access once was at grade and is now via an underpass.

A line gets modernized, frequencies doubled, and underpasses installed, but if you don't do anything people will keep crossing the tracks as they've always done. Here fences become very useful...
In Spain, if you build an underpass, and take away the rail-crossing between platforms, people stop crossing the rails.

Except uneducated people in the Mediterranean regions, some tourists might be among them.

The problem is the lack of these underpasses in some stations, thus the only solution is to cross the rails, but normal people do it through the rail crossing as indicated.

Last edited by 437.001; June 19th, 2012 at 03:55 AM.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #1413
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Aldaia-Alaquàs- Station. Valencia



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Old July 18th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #1414
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First French tunnel that crossed the Canfranc tunnel (more than 8 km) on July 18th, 1928.

It was received at Canfranc by French President Mr. Gaston de Doumergue and Spanish King Alfonso XIII

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Old July 20th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #1415
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Spain Opens New High-Speed Rail, Now Best in Europe
Which new line just opened?
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Old July 21st, 2012, 04:57 AM   #1416
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Who knows...

There are important news though: on January the 1st, 2013, the state-owned railway company Feve, which runs narrow-gauge lines mostly in Northern Spain (Atlantic coast), will cease to exist as it will be absorbed by Renfe and Adif.

This allows the state to eliminate duplicities.
Besides, it will enable to do some routes with one single ticket, and will lead to unification of fares in suburban commuter services in some commuter networks Northern Spain.

On the other hand, Renfe is getting ready to be privatized in part, and to allow new companies in as concurrence.

Last edited by 437.001; July 21st, 2012 at 05:08 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 05:23 AM   #1417
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They should privatize the high-speed operations of Renfe. They can make billions of euros with that, I think (only the operations, not the infrastructure)
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Old July 21st, 2012, 10:37 AM   #1418
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Private profits, public expenditure. The dream of every economist
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Old July 21st, 2012, 11:44 AM   #1419
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Private profits, public expenditure. The dream of every economist
No, the dream of every rent seeker. Economists are against this socializing of losses, privatizing of profits, as this is very inefficient.

I think that in the case of Renfe it would be a good thing. Right now Renfe appears very good at running trains, but not that good at selling them...
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:00 AM   #1420
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Indeed. They´ve never cared. The funny about it is that they´ve only just started to behave as a railway company should... just when they´re about to be privatized.

Did anyone say 'mockery'?
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