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Old October 26th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #1501
alserrod
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From Spanish SSC forum

Quote:
Puerta de Atocha son 15 vías en topera, originalmente las vías de la 1 a la 11 eran en ancho internacional, y de la 12 a la 15 en ancho ibérico, pero con la apertura de la LAV Madrid-Valencia la 12 y 13 se cambiaron a UIC, tanto por la desaparición de su usuario habitual, el alaris, como por la necesidad de mayor espacio para los AVEs.

Las vías 14 y 15 están en espera, ya que para construir la estación pasante será necesario desmantelarlas.

Ahora mismo ninguna de las vías de la actual estación Puerta de Atocha tendrá continuidad hacia Chamartin, sencillamente porque su cota es la misma que la estación histórica/jardín botánico; y aunque no estorbasen esta cota sigue siendo demasiado elevada para poder entroncarlas a un túnel, que ademas estaría casi a nivel de calle. Por lo tanto el túnel UIC en construcción pasa por debajo de la estación (exactamente bajo las vías 10 y 11), y cuando se inaugure este 3º tunel Atocha-Chamartin los trenes que lo usen perderán la parada en Atocha, siendo Chamartin su única parada en Madrid hasta que se construya la nueva estación pasante bajo las vías 14 y 15 y la calle aledaña, y que efectivamente constará de 4 vías pasantes.
Fast and digest translation.

15 platforms ending at Puerta de Atocha.
Sometime ago, 1 to 11 were international gauge and 12 to 15 were Spanish gauge
After opening high speed lane Madrid-Valencia, platforms 12 and 13 were changed to international gauge as far as they were maily used for trains to Valencia (and required different gauge then)
Platforms 14 and 15 are waiting for enlargement to Chamartin because they will have to be erased.


And... connection Puerta de Atocha-Chamartin will be under current platforms 10 and 11. In first, when built, all trains to Chamartin will NOT have a stop at Atocha as far as they will drive under that station.

It is expected to have a second phase using the ground under the current plattforms 14 and 15 so then there will be 13 plattforms at Puerta de Atocha and four underground plattforms (which will be beneath these ones) where trains will be able to stop at Puerta de Atocha and Chamartin.



Obviously you can reckon the status of these works...



Should you have more questions, just ask them. I know something about the project but there are some forumers with a lot of information and it is enough to ask in some threads.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #1502
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Quote:
Puerta de Atocha son 15 vías en topera, originalmente las vías de la 1 a la 11 eran en ancho internacional, y de la 12 a la 15 en ancho ibérico, pero con la apertura de la LAV Madrid-Valencia la 12 y 13 se cambiaron a UIC, tanto por la desaparición de su usuario habitual, el alaris, como por la necesidad de mayor espacio para los AVEs.
The text says that the AVE service required more tracks. However, when I'm in Atocha Renfe (which happened once or twice a year recently) I see a lot of trains parked on these trains doing nothing...so Renfe needs these tracks because this station is inefficiently managed, not because there is a technical need to have 15 (or 13) tracks.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 01:48 AM   #1503
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It happens two things:

- More tracks because they had enough international gauge tracks for AVE to Barcelona (Huesca, Pamplona, Logroño...), Sevilla, Toledo, Malaga (Algeciras, Huelva, Cadiz, Granada...) and they used several tracks with Spanish gauge for trains Alaris Madrid-Valencia.

This last service dissapeared when starting AVE Madrid-Valencia so they just replaced gauges. No more Spanish gauges and more international gauges.

- The passengers flow is prepared to be as comfortable as they could (departures and arrivals) but require to have somewhere trains that arrive and somewhere trains that departs.

Furthermore, after an arrival they supply goods for the bar, clean it, etc... There is a train park near but while tracks are available no need to move them from there.
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Old October 28th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #1504
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From SSC Spanishs threads.

Thanks to jotaerre forumer, who made this scheme about the future railway network in Puerta de Atocha

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Old October 28th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #1505
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I think that a geographic map would make more sense as this schematic one have things that seem a little bit absurd...
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Old October 29th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #1506
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It would not be easy as far as we have to take care that the network is until 30 km away from Madrid.

I will try to put in a map some examples...
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Old October 29th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #1507
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I find too difficult to have a map as far as they are more than 30 km to put in a sample.

I will link some points and explain them

Google maps have an old image from there, before the line to Valencia was opened, so then, they appear several tracks with Spanish gauge.


This is the Madrid-Puerta de Atocha image.

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=madrid...de+Madrid&z=17

Eastern track is the number 1 and western is the number 15.

All tracks could be used for any destination but eastern one are used for Barcelona (Huesca, Pamplona, Zaragoza, Logroño...) and western one are used for Sevilla and Valencia (Algeciras, Huelva, Cadiz, Toledo, Granada, Alicante...)

They could make it conversely but they might cross lines between them, having less capacity.

In this point we can see northern two tracks for Barcelona line, middle one for Sevilla line and southern ones were the conventional gauge to Valencia (today the service is under international gauge).

You can see there that it is possible to change from gauges used to Barcelona through gauges to Sevilla/Valencia and upside-down.
https://maps.google.es/maps?q=madrid...de+Madrid&z=19

Lines to Barcelona and Sevilla go parallel near Madrid until this point, where each one takes its direction.

And, opened in 2009, in this point it begins the by-pass to go Barcelona-Sevilla without stopping at Madrid
https://maps.google.es/maps?q=madrid...de+Madrid&z=16

And looking from the line of Sevilla, the same by-pass

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=madrid...de+Madrid&z=17


Southern, direction Sevilla, in this point you have the cross to Valencia and by-pass for a Valencia-Sevilla with non-stop at Madrid. As can be seen, it is southern than Barcelona-Sevilla by-pass.

Google photos are old and this infrastructure is already on service.

Here you can see where Valencia and Sevilla lines go to each destination and can "reckon" the by-pass Sevilla-Valencia

https://maps.google.es/maps?q=madrid...de+Madrid&z=14



All these infrastructures are already on service.

What it is planned:

1- A tunnel under platforms 12 to 15 at Puerta de Atocha to go to Chamartin. It will be under the rest of platforms. At first there will be non-stop at Puerta de Atocha. Later, with four platforms, trains could stop at both stations.
2- A bridge for Barcelona line to arrive to that tunnel. It will be possible to go over the rest of the tracks but cutting all service because they should have to change from track 1 to 12 in a minute.


More or less this is the scheme with the crosses and bridges.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #1508
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HeyHo,

in just a few weeks I will be travelling to Spain to test the High speed railway network. I will get to be on some "old" rails too, but mainly it will be the new AVE trains that I use.

What is in your opinion the most scenic high speed rail of all of them? The one that goes through mountains and where you really have a nice scenery?

Thanks for information!
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Old November 28th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #1509
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"only" high speed railway (this is, speed 300 km/h) maybe Zaragoza-Calatayud and around Cuenca.

Madrid-Segovia is half nice... half a looooooooong tunnel.

Should you want information about old trains too, you can send me a PM. There are too many.

There are some trains that starts at 300 km/h and change gauges to continue via old line.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #1510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
HeyHo,

in just a few weeks I will be travelling to Spain to test the High speed railway network. I will get to be on some "old" rails too, but mainly it will be the new AVE trains that I use.

What is in your opinion the most scenic high speed rail of all of them? The one that goes through mountains and where you really have a nice scenery?

Thanks for information!
Two things I can recommend :

- trains from Madrid to Granada. High speed line to Antequerra Santa Anna,
pass through a gauge interchange, and from there diesel traction on an
old single track line (still with mechanical signals et all) to Granada, over a
wonderfully scenic landscape. And you get to see the works of the new
high-speed line being built there too.

- entirely on old network : the train "Garcia Lorca" that leaves Barcelona
every day ay 8AM to reach points much farther south : Granada, Cordoba
and Malaga. Magnificent lanscape all the way, and time to see it, as the
train is quite slow (takes a full day).

So you could for example do a Madrid-Barcelona-Granada-Madrid...
and visit Sagrada Familia and the Alhambra gardens on the way .
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Old November 28th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #1511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Madrid-Segovia is half nice... half a looooooooong tunnel.
The old line via Cercedilla is nice.

But be careful, in Spain it is extremely easy to find blind seats (with no view on the outside of the train). In fact, on Talgo and Siemens trains seats near windows are quite an exception, which forms the majority of high speed services.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #1512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The old line via Cercedilla is nice.
+1
and the line via Avila too... but I answered only about high speed lines.

If he had said he wanted specific scenics I would have wrote several ones.

Another line I would reccomend is the Zaragoza-Canfranc-Pau. You can enter/quite the border with France with a French train and a bus managed by SNCF. In Canfranc there are two daily trains that come from the Pyrenees heart


Quote:
But be careful, in Spain it is extremely easy to find blind seats (with no view on the outside of the train). In fact, on Talgo and Siemens trains seats near windows are quite an exception, which forms the majority of high speed services.

+1

It is a detail to be considered!!!.
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Old November 29th, 2012, 07:06 AM   #1513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The old line via Cercedilla is nice.

But be careful, in Spain it is extremely easy to find blind seats (with no view on the outside of the train). In fact, on Talgo and Siemens trains seats near windows are quite an exception, which forms the majority of high speed services.
When reserving on renfe.es one can often pick a seat on a car diagram. What are the best seats to look for?
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Old November 29th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #1514
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Thank you very much for your help! My current plan (for the 5 days I got in spain) is currently something like this (without excact timings yet).

1: Montepellier-Valencia-Madrid (Talgo du jour from France, goes along the coast! and then an AVE to Madrid (I got one hour to change and it will still be daylight when I arrive to Madrid!)
2: Madrid-Granada (the diesel old line)-Malaga
3: Malaga-Sevilla-Madrid
4: Madrid-Valladolid-Madrid
5 Madrid-Barcelona (maybe I take it again in the afternooon, Barcelona-Madrid and then again Madrid-Barcelona, it's such an important railway!)
6: Barcelona-Firgueras-Paris


What railway going north of Valladolid is good to choose? There are running so many trains in that line going further north, so I don't mind if I only travel to Valladolid or a city north of it, as long as I get to see the high speed rail! Should I take Gijon, Santader, Bilbao? What has the most beauiful direct-connection with Madrid and the high speed rail Valladolid-Madrid?

Thank again!
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Old November 29th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #1515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Thank you very much for your help! My current plan (for the 5 days I got in spain) is currently something like this (without excact timings yet).

1: Montepellier-Valencia-Madrid (Talgo du jour from France, goes along the coast! and then an AVE to Madrid (I got one hour to change and it will still be daylight when I arrive to Madrid!)
2: Madrid-Granada (the diesel old line)-Malaga
Madrid-Granada, as far as I know, goes via Antequera, with high speed railway until there and later old line


Quote:
3: Malaga-Sevilla-Madrid
Here you can choose an Avant train (regional train in the high speed network, running about 250) or the old line via Antequera and direct through Sevilla. Have a look to timetables


Quote:
4: Madrid-Valladolid-Madrid
5 Madrid-Barcelona (maybe I take it again in the afternooon, Barcelona-Madrid and then again Madrid-Barcelona, it's such an important railway!)
6: Barcelona-Firgueras-Paris


What railway going north of Valladolid is good to choose? There are running so many trains in that line going further north, so I don't mind if I only travel to Valladolid or a city north of it, as long as I get to see the high speed rail! Should I take Gijon, Santader, Bilbao? What has the most beauiful direct-connection with Madrid and the high speed rail Valladolid-Madrid?

Thank again!


Everyone will have his preferences. I live far away... and not suggested into local issues there.

I will recommend you to go to Gijon (or just Oviedo... a nice city and there is a huge shuttle network in the surroundings of both cities).

Why?. Just.... take a look after Pajares mountain pass!!!!. The strech has... a few curves... and imagine the scenic.

If you are going to do a Madrid-Barcelona-Madrid I would recommend you two things. One of them is taking a non-stop train in one way and a trains with several stops in the other way. You will notice a lot of differences around type of passengers.
The other thing is... try to return via Canfranc.
AVE Madrid-Zaragoza, regional Zaragoza-Canfranc, SNCF bus Canfranc-Oloron, train Oloron-Pau and later a Pau-Toulouse and... keep on.




Canfranc station...
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Old November 29th, 2012, 04:41 PM   #1516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Thank you very much for your help! My current plan (for the 5 days I got in spain) is currently something like this (without excact timings yet).

1: Montepellier-Valencia-Madrid (Talgo du jour from France, goes along the coast! and then an AVE to Madrid (I got one hour to change and it will still be daylight when I arrive to Madrid!)
2: Madrid-Granada (the diesel old line)-Malaga
3: Malaga-Sevilla-Madrid
4: Madrid-Valladolid-Madrid
5 Madrid-Barcelona (maybe I take it again in the afternooon, Barcelona-Madrid and then again Madrid-Barcelona, it's such an important railway!)
6: Barcelona-Firgueras-Paris


What railway going north of Valladolid is good to choose? There are running so many trains in that line going further north, so I don't mind if I only travel to Valladolid or a city north of it, as long as I get to see the high speed rail! Should I take Gijon, Santader, Bilbao? What has the most beauiful direct-connection with Madrid and the high speed rail Valladolid-Madrid?

Thank again!
Sorry about vallesoletanos friends but this day I think is better do:

4: Madrid - Segovia (old line Iberian gauge, crossing a mountain very nice) and return Avant (HST) Segovia - Madrid (HSL)

Segovia is a beautiful city with many monuments and exceptional cuisine
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Old November 29th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #1517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
Sorry about vallesoletanos friends but this day I think is better do:

4: Madrid - Segovia (old line Iberian gauge, crossing a mountain very nice) and return Avant (HST) Segovia - Madrid (HSL)

Segovia is a beautiful city with many monuments and exceptional cuisine


+1

you will be able to run over two different lines.
Likewise.... you can try making a return journey in the Cercedilla line... but take care of timetables and think it will be an absolutely full day of trains!!!!!!!!!
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Old November 29th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #1518
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And if JumpUp loves the train, the journey could be:

Madrid - Cercecedilla (Iberian gauge)

Cercedilla-Cotos-Cercedilla (metric gauge)

Cercedilla - Segovia (Iberian gauge)

Segovia - Madrid (HSL UIC gauge)

The line Cercedilla - Cotos was built for sky tourism. And allows you to see a natural park (Peñalara) in the mountains of Madrid
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Old December 1st, 2012, 05:14 AM   #1519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
Sorry about vallesoletanos friends but this day I think is better do:

4: Madrid - Segovia (old line Iberian gauge, crossing a mountain very nice) and return Avant (HST) Segovia - Madrid (HSL)

Segovia is a beautiful city with many monuments and exceptional cuisine
Segovia is definitely worth a day-trip. I spent my first year of university there (IE University). The aqueduct, Cathedral, and alcazar are wonderful. And yes, the cuisine is great, but avoid the restaurant Candido at the aqueduct. It will be recommended to you without a doubt but is nothing out of this world and very pricey, instead eat around the Plaza Mayor.
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Old December 1st, 2012, 07:59 AM   #1520
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Thank you very much for your information ! I will check out some timetables and then come back to you. Currently I am in Italy testing their High speed service! In half an hour I will be boarding my freciarossa Torino-Napoli going 300 on that railwap for 5 hours
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