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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:30 PM   #1561
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Thanks for the clarification on Renfe's brands and trains. It helps me to understand the system a bit better

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
And what about stoptrains?
NS has dropped the name "stoptrein" in favor of "sprinter". Other carriers (such as Arriva) do still use the name "stoptrein".
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Old December 27th, 2012, 05:40 AM   #1562
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News:

Feve (Ferrocarriles de Vía Estrecha -Spanish for 'Narrow Gauge Railways'-) is integrated into Adif (infrastructure) and Renfe (operations) from New Year´s Day.

Feve website, announcing the end of their website (in Spanish)

Adif website, new section 'Metric gauge' (in Spanish)

There´s nothing on the Renfe website yet.

A new chapter for railways in Spain starts. Good or bad, we´ll see...
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Old December 28th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #1563
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Feve will disappear and replace by Renfe Operadora/Adif?
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Old December 28th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #1564
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Yes.
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Old December 28th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #1565
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News:

The Ministry has announced which rail services will be considered as of "compulsory public service", and which wont.
Those services which wont, will be either supressed, or transferred into coaches, or maintained if the region pays the whole deficit of the train.

It´s been announced that four stations in La Rioja region will be closed (Cenicero-San Isidro, Haro-El Pardo, Arrúbal, and Recajo).

It´s also been announced that:

-the regional train Monzón-Lérida is suppressed.
-the regional train Zaragoza-Mora la Nueva is shortened to Zaragoza-Caspe.

That´s all we know for now.

I could post the whole document, but it´s not very clear as it´s quite contradictory, so I´d rather post the news as long as we get to know them...
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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:42 AM   #1566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Feve will disappear and replace by Renfe Operadora/Adif?
Yes, and nevertheless... there is one touristic train over classic rails that is (was) managed by FEVE, as far as not all FEVE services are in the north of Spain (almost, almost all of the, but there is a little line in the south).



FEVE has two touristic trains:

- Transcantabrico. Journey Leon-Santiago via Bilbao (or vice-versa). Departing Leon the train arrives to the sea and turns back besides the sea until Ferrol. Later coach to Santiago.
One week

- Al Andalus express
Six days around Andalucia, departing and arriving from/to Seville and calling in some of the most beatiful cities in the region
Runs in spring and autumn

In 2013 and 2014 while summer the same train will run Madrid-Zaragoza (or vice-versa) making a tour in the middle-north Spain with calls at Segovia, Salamanca, Burgos, Vitoria, Pamplona, etc...


Price without discounts would be about 2500 EUR per person in a double deck.
It is all included. Normally meals would be in luxurious restaurants in the area and breakfast in the train while running. All buses, entrances, etc... are included
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Old December 30th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #1567
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Many questions...

HeyHo,

as I promised, I got LOTS of questions concerning the high-speed rail in Spain:

I'd like to know about all new HSR railways that are currently under construction. Can you please give me a quick comment on the following railways how far the construcion is and a (very approximate date) of HSR opening. Sadly wikipedia is not always up-to-date or simply delivers no information at all:

Sevilla-Cadiz: I can't really find any information, is it already in the building phase?

Madrid-Badajoz: It should be part of the Madrid-Lisbon connection. How much future does this railway has if Portugal doesn't build on their part of the country? Will there be high-speed gauge/border crossing gauge changing? Any opening year yet to be known?

(Malaga)-Antequera-Sevilla: I've seen parts of the building already when I visited Antequera, is there an opening year?

Alacant-Almeria: Albacete-Alacant will be opened in summer 2013, what about the ongoing connection HSR all the way to Almeria? Is it already under construction?

Antequera-Granada: They are building very fast along that line - I could see it on my visit. Any opening date? Is there a plan to connect it to Almeria? Then there would be a big circle: Madrid-Albacete-Alacant-Almeria-Granada-Antequera Cordoba-Madrid

Madrid-Valladolid-Irun: Is there already an approximate opening date for the standart gauge going all the way up north of Spain into France?


After opening soooo many lines in the next year. Did Renfe already order more 300+ km/h trains for the network? If you got more network, you need more trains, so did they order already some? Any information about future high-speed rolling stock?

Barcelona-Valencia: As far as I know this line will not be an HSR line, just an "upgrade" line. Is it already finished? Will it be in standart gauge too?

Valencia-Alacant: Is there a plan to connect Valencia with an HSR to the new HSR direction Alacant? So a new line around: Valencia-La Encina?

Wikipedia says the following:

"Services from Lyon to Barcelona in under four hours are planned, probably in 2014, using the classic line in France between Perpignan and Nîmes. A new company jointly owned by RENFE and SNCF is to be formed to run services between Paris and Madrid. Ten new trains are to be purchased at a cost of €300 million."


What are those 10 new trains and is the schedule still correct for "2014 AVE class 100 to France?" Will they indeed take the old trains for a border-crossing service? How likely is a direct connection AVE/TGV Paris-Madrid via Montepellier-Perpignan and Girona?

How accurate is this map? Is there something missing? Does anybody have a better or more up-to-date map?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HighSpeedSpain.png

Last question:
Is there something like a year ticket for all of RENFE high-speed network (incl. AVE of course?) A ticket where you pay an annual fee and then get to ride as much as you like? In Germany it's the Bahncard100, in Swiss the Generalabo, so maybe there is something like that in Spain too? (I'm not talking of interrail)


Thank you so much for all your answers Have a nice sunday!

Philllip
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Old December 30th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #1568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Sevilla-Cadiz: I can't really find any information, is it already in the building phase?
It is an upgrade of the existing railway, dubbeltracking and straitening of curves. The only part if this railway where you will see trains running above 200km/h is the section between Utrera and Jerez which partly support speeds up to 250km/h but generally 200/220.

Some photos taken this summer

http://www.tranvia.org/modules.php?n...=asc&start=320


Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Madrid-Badajoz: It should be part of the Madrid-Lisbon connection. How much future does this railway has if Portugal doesn't build on their part of the country? Will there be high-speed gauge/border crossing gauge changing? Any opening year yet to be known?
Until the Portuguese side is built (who knows if ever), it will be an ultra expensive railway and a complete black hole in the Spanish railway budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Alacant-Almeria: Albacete-Alacant will be opened in summer 2013, what about the ongoing connection HSR all the way to Almeria? Is it already under construction?
The main tunnel on the line is now drilled, hopefully it will not end up in a similar way another Spanish railway tunnel did http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enga%C3%B1a_Tunnel The way things are going I'm not to optimistic though

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Madrid-Valladolid-Irun: Is there already an approximate opening date for the standart gauge going all the way up north of Spain into France?
The line between Madrid and Burgos will be operational in the near future (2015 or 2016) but then there is a 90km section after Burgos (4-5 years worth of construction at least) that is not even started. So Madrid to Irun might open in the next decade, 2020-2030.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
How accurate is this map? Is there something missing? Does anybody have a better or more up-to-date map?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HighSpeedSpain.png

Fairly, but the best map you will fin anywhere on the net is this one:

http://www.geotren.es/ferrocarril.html

Dotted lines in black show railway construction, ongoing and upcoming for 2013.

This map below is maybe easier to understand, it shows funding for HSR construction for 2013

http://www.geotren.es/blog/presupues...-por-corredor/

Last edited by gincan; December 30th, 2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 11:38 PM   #1569
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That last link is particularly informative. Can somebody comment why funding favours the line to Galicia over alternatives (line to Asturias or to Basque country or Barcelona-Valencia etc)?

How much more work is needed until the long dug Pajares base tunnel could be used?

Last edited by Sunfuns; December 31st, 2012 at 12:11 AM.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 12:07 AM   #1570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That last link is particularly informative. Can somebody comment why funding favours the line to Galicia over alternatives (line to Asturias or to Basque country or Barcelona-Valencia etc)?

Sorry for talking about politic topics but... current Spanish president is from Galicia.

They had regional elections in november but where estimated for march, so they worked a lot to have something prepared or on works while elections...


Things are like this. Everyone know why first HSL was Madrid-Sevilla...
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Old December 31st, 2012, 12:51 AM   #1571
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Video AVE Málaga-Barcelona. Zaragoza Delicias station.



It is the first train does not stop in Madrid Atocha station together with AVE Sevilla-Valencia.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 01:25 AM   #1572
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There are five daily train per direction with no call at Madrid but running close to it:

2x Barcelona-Sevilla
2x Barcelona-Malaga
1x Valencia-Sevilla (option to shuttle to Malaga)

In the case of the train that appear in the ADPG video, it drives for almost 1200 km in 5h 40 min entirely over high speed line.


you can leave Malaga, in the south Spain, Mediterranean coast looking to Africa at 8:20 and be in Barcelona at 14:00 for lunch time.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 06:36 AM   #1573
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Hi there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
HeyHo,

as I promised, I got LOTS of questions concerning the high-speed rail in Spain:

I'd like to know about all new HSR railways that are currently under construction. Can you please give me a quick comment on the following railways how far the construcion is and a (very approximate date) of HSR opening. Sadly wikipedia is not always up-to-date or simply delivers no information at all:
Ok then, here I go:

Quote:
Sevilla-Cadiz: I can't really find any information, is it already in the building phase?
Strictly speaking, this is not a HSL, but an upgrading and double-tracking of the existing line. In Iberian gauge btw.
Very recently a new strecth has been double-tracked, between Jerez de la Frontera and Aeropuerto de Jerez (station formerly known as La Parra).
The following two stretches, between Aeropuerto de Jerez and Lebrija, and between Lebrija and Marismilla, are very advanced, especially the former.

The line has also been double-tracked in several phases, which started in some cases more than fifteen years ago, between Seville and Utrera, between Jerez de la Frontera and Las Aletas, and between Puerto Real and Cádiz. Right now, the only single-track remaining section between Aeropuerto de Jerez and Cádiz is Puerto Real provisional station, since the works for the new underground station are, be it halted, be it advanging at a snail´s pace.

The remaing section in single track, between Marismilla and Utrera, saw platform works start, then halt, and no works have taken place there in years.

Quote:
Madrid-Badajoz: It should be part of the Madrid-Lisbon connection.
There are works between Navalmoral de la Mata and somewhere around Plasencia, between Cañaveral and Cáceres, and between Cáceres and Badajoz (excepting the Mérida station and its approach). Works in the remaining stretch between Navalmoral de la Mata and Pantoja (where it would connect with the Madrid-Seville HSL) have not started at all. Not a single rail on the line yet, far from that.

Quote:
How much future does this railway has if Portugal doesn't build on their part of the country?
It could still be done, travel times between Madrid and Portugal (and between Extremadura and the rest of Spain) would decrease incredibly even in that case. Portugal announced it will build the Badajoz-Évora stretch, but only single-tracked and in Iberian gauge, albeit prepared since its opening for double-tracking and Standard gauge in the future if need (and budget) be.

Quote:
Will there be high-speed gauge/border crossing gauge changing?
Could be, could be not. We´ll see.

Quote:
Any opening year yet to be known?
No!

Quote:
(Malaga)-Antequera-Sevilla: I've seen parts of the building already when I visited Antequera, is there an opening year?
This one´s a mess... And of course there is no opening date yet.

This HSL was started by the Andalusian regional government, and they built the platform between Marchena and Antequera-Santa Ana (not Antequera proper, which is on the Antequera-Granada HSL), where it would connect with the Madrid-Cordova-Malaga HSL.

The problem is that the works between Marchena and Seville haven´t started at all, since the Andalusian regional government lacked the funds to build this section, which includes a rather long and expensive tunnel under Seville airport.

Finally the Ministry took over the Andalusian regional government as the master of works for this HSL, only to stop them, as the line has been relegated behind others (actually, nearly all the other HSLs) in the list of priorities.

It has to be said that this HSL was not so necessary, since there are already high speed trains between Seville and Malaga via Cordova.

Quote:
Alacant-Almeria:
Actually, it´s two HSLs, not one (two different projects): Albacete-Alicante-Murcia is one thing, and Murcia-Lorca-Almeria another.

Quote:
Albacete-Alacant will be opened in summer 2013,
Correct.

Quote:
what about the ongoing connection HSR all the way to Almeria? Is it already under construction?
Er... this is a bit too complex to explain, since as I said, there are two very different sections. But these two lines can also be divided in two or even seventeen or eighteen sections, such are the varying stages of construction.

Planification here has been a bit... weird (I don´t want to use rude language).

The Ministry says that the stretch between Monforte del Cid (just outside Alicante) and Murcia could be opening in 2015/16. We´ll see...

This section will consist of a normal HSL between Monforte del Cid and Crevillent (till right here, no problem at all)...

...and an upgraded line (with commuter trains and freight) between Crevillent and Murcia. It will be transformed to Standard gauge, with no third rail.

And this is one of the biggest debates in HSR in Spain, since it will have commuter trains, freight, and HSR together, and its coexistence is source of future trouble to many (including myself). Now, that wouldn´t hurt in other sectors, but I think it does in this particular one.

Its construction is... fragmented at the very least.

Some parts are already in use but in Iberian gauge as a provisional thing, others are in works (various stages, including a new, and in my view totally unnecessary new Orihuela underground station)... and then there´s Murcia station.

Murcia station, which is supposed to be much bigger and underground (thus very expensive) than the current one, has not started at all, which is an enormous problem since current Murcia station (population 445,000) has only four platforms, which damages the performance of the whole passenger traffic in all the Southeastern region.

======================================================

Then there´s the Murcia-Lorca-Almería section, which is a part of a different project, but depends completely on the construction of the new Murcia station.

Its construction is also quite fragmented, since it was the first section to be started (don´t ask!), and can be very clearly split in three sections:

-Murcia to Lorca.

It is the most complex section concerning stages of construction. What started out as a simple double tracking and upgrading of the Murcia-Lorca classic line has turned into a full HSL... during the works.

There are three sections (Alhama de Murcia to Totana, and Totana to Lorca -excepting the Alhama de Murcia, Totana, and Lorca approaches, where works haven´t even started-) that have been built to HSL standards, and have platform works finished or at a very advanced stage.

The problem is that one particular strech of the original upgrading project of the classic line (between Sangonera and Librilla) is finished but has never been opened.

Contrarily to the Crevillent-Murcia section of the Alicante-Murcia line, here the line has been built separated from the classic line (while in this case it was perhaps less necessary than between Crevillent and Murcia...), excepted the infamous and yet unused Sangonera-Librilla stretch, which is totally and so disruptive that it´ll have to be demolished and re-built to match the rest of the line, that is, having never been used!!!

-Lorca station and Lorca-Pulpí.

Lorca station is a problem nearly as big as Murcia, since Lorca station (population 90,000) has only two platforms.
Like in Murcia, the new station should be an underground and much bigger one. Its construction hasn´t started (budget again).

Works between Lorca and Pulpí haven´t started yet.

And actually the Ministry has more than enough to cope with in this sector: the classic line here is closed after it got very severely damaged in the last September floods.

-Pulpí-Almeria.

This is already in Andalusia, we leave the Murcia region behind.
Works here seem to go very slowly, since this is not a big priority.
There are some viaducts and a long tunnel built, but they take it easy.

But once in service, it will be a great thing, since there are no rail services between Murcia and Andalusia since 1985: now it takes 12 hours to travel by train from Barcelona to Almeria, with this stretch, travel time from Barcelona to Almeria will shorten to only 4h30!!!

Quote:
Antequera-Granada: They are building very fast along that line - I could see it on my visit. Any opening date?
Strange as it might seem to you: NO!

It is very advanced in many sectors, but it lacks three crucial ones:

-Antequera central station (different to the current HSL Antequera-Santa Ana parkway station). The current Antequera station cannot cope, too small, and they´ll build a new one, not underground, but in a half-covered trench. Works haven´t started (budget again), and it looks like they´ll use the current small station provisionally.

-HSL around Loja and Loja station. This is a geologically very complicated sector, so complicated that it has been postponed!! Trains will run on the classic line here then... that is, once it gets the 3rd rail or is transformed to Standard gauge. The HSL around Loja and Loja station will only be built when there are funds again and after many other lines and sections, since it´s so expensive and complex.

-Granada station. Again, another uncertain station.
The original project was an underground and very expensive and posh station (again).
Current Granada station might do (WILL do), although the station will have to be extensively refurbished. Contrarily to Murcia, Lorca, and Antequera stations, there´s no problems of space, the current Granada station is big enough.

Quote:
Is there a plan to connect it to Almeria? Then there would be a big circle: Madrid-Albacete-Alacant-Almeria-Granada-Antequera Cordoba-Madrid
There´s a plan, but only in the very long term. No project yet.
This is normal, since Granada to Almeria is one of the most difficult and steep (and beautuful!) lines in Spain. It´s a mountain line, so building a HSL here would involve big tunnels.

Quote:
Madrid-Valladolid-Irun: Is there already an approximate opening date for the standart gauge going all the way up north of Spain into France?
No, not at all. There was one (2016), but it has been scrapped, as it was irrealistic.

-Madrid to Valladolid is in service.

-Valladolid to Burgos is at an advanced to very advanced stage. Should be ready by 2015/16.

-Burgos to Vitoria: works haven´t started here yet.

-Vitoria to Bilbao and San Sebastian (the "Basque Y"): advanced to very advanced works, yes... but Bilbao, Vitoria and San Sebastian station approaches haven´t been started yet (which is understandable since the area is rather mountainous but very densely populated, which makes things quite complex).

-San Sebastian to Irun: its construction depends on the construction of the French part of the line, which isn´t very clear since the French Basque are very opposed to it (nymbys).

Quote:
After opening soooo many lines in the next year.
No, just two (Barcelona-Figueras and Albacete-Alicante).

Quote:
Did Renfe already order more 300+ km/h trains for the network? If you got more network, you need more trains, so did they order already some? Any information about future high-speed rolling stock?
No, trains are already there.
Actually there´s a number of yet-unused trains, waiting for extensions to enter service (or to be more busy than they are now).

As for future rolling-stock, we don´t know, given that it´s likely that Renfe might be privatized. Keep an eye then.

Quote:
Barcelona-Valencia: As far as I know this line will not be an HSR line, just an "upgrade" line.
This line was much much more necessary than some others, but for some reasons too long to explain, it will still take long time since we see a HSL between Valencia and Tarragona.

It can be divided in three sections:

-Valencia-Castellon-Vandellos.

It was going to be a HSL, the section between Valencia and Castellon was about to start works (in fact I even think that some preliminary works actually started, iirc). And between Castellon and Vandellos there were studies for a HSL. But this week we´ve known that it´s all been scrapped, and that the current line will simply be transformed to Standard gauge between Vandellos and Castellon (with a few upgradings here and there), and 3rd rail between Castellon and Valencia.

-Vandellos-Vilaseca-Camp de Tarragona.

a) Vandellos-Vilaseca:
The neverending line. It has become somewhat of an icon of unfinished lines.
Works started twenty years ago, as a supposed-to-be upgrading of the classic line. Enough said. The platform is finished (excepting a viaduct at Cambrils and a trench at Vilaseca), but after 20 years of being unused it has deteriorated, so it will need some minor upgrading.
Looks like works have AT LAST restarted very recently, but with very few workers.
This is another one of the main sources of debate though, because even if it´s all been approved, this will involve the closing of the classic line stretch between Tarragona and Vandellos, which includes four rather used stations: Port Aventura, Salou, Cambrils, and L´Hospitalet de l´Infant. We still hope the classic line will be maintained, since it would be anti-economical to close it.

b) Vilaseca-Camp de Tarragona.
This is just the connecting section with Camp de Tarragona HSL station. Works are advanced, though stopped. This section was started much later than the rest of the stretch till Vandellos.

It will finally have Standard gauge till Castellon. No 3rd rail here.

Quote:
Is it already finished?
NO WAY!!!

Quote:
Will it be in standart gauge too?
See above.

Quote:
Valencia-Alacant: Is there a plan to connect Valencia with an HSR to the new HSR direction Alacant? So a new line around: Valencia-La Encina?
Not so new, actually...

The HSL has been in service for many years between Xativa and La Encina, though in Iberian gauge. Here they are rebuilding and upgrading the old classic line (which had been abandoned between Moixent and La Encina, and left for the commuter trains only between Moixent and Xativa, and it was in single track, now it´s being double-tracked) to keep the Iberian gauge for the freight, since this is part of the old classic Madrid-Valencia main line. After the old classic line is rebuilt, works to change the gauge on the HSL will start.

Between Xativa and Valencia, the new HSL (built much later than Xativa-la Encina) is nearly finished, actually it even has the rails and everything excepting the signalling and catenary. It should have been opened more that a year ago by now, but for some unknown reason, works suddenly halted.

When the Valencia-La Encina will FINALLY open, travel time will decrease by one hour between Valencia and Alicante. About time!

Quote:
Wikipedia says the following:

"Services from Lyon to Barcelona in under four hours are planned, probably in 2014, using the classic line in France between Perpignan and Nîmes. A new company jointly owned by RENFE and SNCF is to be formed to run services between Paris and Madrid. Ten new trains are to be purchased at a cost of €300 million."


What are those 10 new trains and is the schedule still correct for "2014 AVE class 100 to France?" Will they indeed take the old trains for a border-crossing service?
Wikipedia hasn´t been updated.

Indeed, the initial idea was to buy 10 new double-decker TGV trains to Alstom.
That was scrapped due to budgetary reasons, and instead Renfe chose to upgrade the old 1992 AVE S-100 trains to make them able to run through France.

Quote:
How likely is a direct connection AVE/TGV Paris-Madrid via Montepellier-Perpignan and Girona?
As likely as the fact that in a week it will be possible (or at least this is what we presume), but you´ll have to still change trains at Figueres-Vilafant station.

This is due to Spanish Renfe AVE trains not having finished their homologation tests in France yet, and French Sncf TGV trains not having started their homologation tests in Spain yet.

So they can´t do the whole Paris to Madrid line yet... but it´s only a matter of months.

Meanwhile, you´ll have to change at Figueres (if the French train is not delayed, the wait at the station will not be long, like 20 minutes or so).

Quote:
How accurate is this map? Is there something missing? Does anybody have a better or more up-to-date map?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HighSpeedSpain.png
Reasonably accurate, though there are some small errors, possibly due to the moment at which the map was concocted.

Currently, the map should feature this:

-the whole Valladolid (Olmedo, not Valladolid itself) to Ourense line should be all yellow, since all of it is in works. Out the red parts then.

-same goes for Valladolid to Burgos, works reach Burgos now. Out the red parts too, yellow only.

-the colours between Murcia and Almeria should be inversed, the yellow part should be red, and vice-versa.

As for the rest, it´s quite correct. Though it might perhaps be a good idea to include the name "Barcelona" in it.

Quote:
Last question:
Is there something like a year ticket for all of RENFE high-speed network (incl. AVE of course?) A ticket where you pay an annual fee and then get to ride as much as you like? In Germany it's the Bahncard100, in Swiss the Generalabo, so maybe there is something like that in Spain too? (I'm not talking of interrail)
No, we wish there was one...

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Thank you so much for all your answers Have a nice sunday!

Philllip
You are welcome Phillip, feel free to ask more.


Last edited by 437.001; December 31st, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 04:20 PM   #1574
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Why is the Irun to Madrid line proposed to go via Burgos rather than via Pamplona and Plasencia de Jalor which could be shorter and offer the option of trains from West France to Barcelona?

Also, any possibility of a loop from Madrid Charmartin through the airport to the Barcelona line?
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Old December 31st, 2012, 04:37 PM   #1575
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Why is the Irun to Madrid line proposed to go via Burgos rather than via Pamplona and Plasencia de Jalor which could be shorter and offer the option of trains from West France to Barcelona?

That could be a very nice question that no one could answer me.

Trains Irun-Madrid with calls at Alsasua go via Valladolid.
Trains Pamplona-Madrid go via Calatayud

Take a look about distance between both cities.

Before Valladolid HSL there was one daily train that made Madrid-Pamplona-Irun but after Valladolid line it remained as Madrid-Pamplona.


If you ask me I would say that they are more interested in having full trains despite better journeys.


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Also, any possibility of a loop from Madrid Charmartin through the airport to the Barcelona line?

Wow!!!!... that's matter of opinion and we were talking about it in some Spanish thread.

Quick wrap-up:

- When building the line it could be possible to make trains departing from M.Chamartin instead of M.Atocha. That will help have a direct stop in the airport.

- So then it could be possible to have lines from Valladolid and Barcelona arriving to Chamartin, lines from Valencia and Sevilla arriving to Atocha and a by-pass in the Eastern Madrid for all those lines.

- Making a line under the airport (and all those terrains) would be really expensive, but making a tunnel under Madrid to connect both stations is being expensive too... and journey time to Madrid will remain the same, although time to airport would decrease.

Today no solutions except making tunnel under Madrid. As I said, matter of opinion.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 05:24 PM   #1576
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Iteresting discussion we are having here although I guess it's not quite the right thread

Spanish HSR is particularly interesting to me because a lot of things are going on at the same time even if slowly. Sure, there is a lot more activity in China but the names like Wuhan or Chongqing don't mean as much to me.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 05:51 PM   #1577
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Iteresting discussion we are having here although I guess it's not quite the right thread

In my opinion never mind!!!!. There are two international threads. This (supposed) for classic lines and another one for HSL.

But happy to talk about any topic somewhere...
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Old December 31st, 2012, 07:16 PM   #1578
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How much more work is needed until the long dug Pajares base tunnel could be used?
Breakthrough was achieved on 13 September 2008, 4 years later and they still have not begun installing the rails and the electrical installations (14 months worth of construction), the superstructure is 99% finished though. Opening is now pushed back to late 2014 or early 2015.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 12:02 PM   #1579
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Trains as correspondance for planes?

Hey,

thank you so much for all the answers concerning my questions. I got another thing to ask

Now that many of the biggest citys in Spain are connected with AVE trains and basically run 300 km/h all their way they made a hard life for national airlines...

Are there any plans to connect the biggest airports of Spain (Madrid, Barcelona and perhaps Malaga and Alicante) with the AVE network? Then people for international or continental flights wouldn't need to take a domestic connecting-flight to Madrid Barajas or Barcelona. They could check in at their local AVE station and get carried by train directly to their flight.

In Germany there is this system where they use trains and give them a flight number (e.g. Frankfurt-Cologne or Frankfurt-Stuttgart) so that you basically step into a train while literally bording your plane... And if the train is late you don't need to worry about paying fees for another flight, as in theory, your ICE train runs as a Lufthansa flight!
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Old January 1st, 2013, 12:14 PM   #1580
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Another thing I'd like to talk about are ticket prices. I just looked out on renfe.com for the most important spanisch HSL Madrid-Barcelona. Even if I book 2 months in advance I don't find a ticketprice below 100 Euro one way! Isn't that freaking expensive? Deutsche Bahn and sncf (and also trenitalia) offer really good discount prices if you book in advance . just renfe seems to be always expensive.

Can anybody tell me the cheapest possible price for Barcelona-Madrid with AVE if you book in advance?

Thanks
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