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Old May 27th, 2013, 01:32 AM   #1681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I've been in that area with a car (Gibraltar-Malaga-Almeria) and building a railway line there would indeed be expensive and difficult...
Between La Línea (just off Gibraltar) and Fuengirola (end of the current commuter line of the Costa del Sol from Malaga to the West) it will be expensive, but it´s one of the lines that would justify the cost, that would be almost like a metro, and it´s really really needed.
Btw, there already is a railway line between La Línea and Algeciras, for freight only.

East of Malaga, that would be possible only till Nerja. East of Nerja the coast is too steep, and far less populated so the cost wouldn´t be justified.

Still, that won´t be for next week.

Quote:
By the way is there currently a train Madrid-Almeria? If yes then which route does it take?
There is one indeed, and it follows the straight route, one of the most scenic railway lines in Spain.

Madrid-Aranjuez-Alcázar de San Juan-Manzanares-Linares Baeza-Moreda-Guadix-Fiñana-Gérgal-Gádor-Almeria (more info at www.renfe.com).

The section between Linares-Baeza and Moreda is one of the loneliest, if not the loneliest, railway lines of the whole country.
No villages, and completely isolated stations.

The section between Guadix and Almeria is rather American Far West, desert landscape.

I really recommend to travel on that line.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 01:34 AM   #1682
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Nowadays there are two daily Madrid-Almeria and they go through Alcazar-Linares

Several years ago it was a Madrid-Granada/Almeria but since HSL arrived to Antequera, it is a little faster going through Ciudad Real-Cordoba-Antequera to approach Granada and classic line to Almería.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #1683
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Nowadays there are two daily Madrid-Almeria and they go through Alcazar-Linares

Several years ago it was a Madrid-Granada/Almeria but since HSL arrived to Antequera, it is a little faster going through Ciudad Real-Cordoba-Antequera to approach Granada and classic line to Almería.
It isn´t.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #1684
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The terrain between Malaga and Almeria is this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amsie on Tranvia.org
In the image we can be see the works for the new highway. Very very complicated to build a railway in there, even more when the places is much less populated than the rest of the spanish coast. The road traffic average of the corridor at this place place isn't high at all.

Quote:
Several years ago it was a Madrid-Granada/Almeria but since HSL arrived to Antequera, it is a little faster going through Ciudad Real-Cordoba-Antequera to approach Granada and classic line to Almería.
It is 20 minutes faster via the classic line than via Antequera and the HSL.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 05:52 PM   #1685
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It´s been announced that the classic line between Medina del Campo and Salamanca will be electrified. 24.5 M€.

We still don´t have the details, but we guess it will be electrified at 25kV.

It is phase 1 of the electrification of the whole classic line running from Medina del Campo to Fuentes de Oñoro/Vilar Formoso (Portuguese border).
Phase 2 would obviously be Salamanca-Fuentes de Oñoro/Vilar Formoso.

When the missing link will be completed, there will finally be no "diesel gap" between France and Portugal, all under wires.
Besides, the Alvia/IC Barcelona-Valladolid will be extended to Salamanca, like the old Talgo did.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #1686
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And they could run elektric Alvias from Madrid to Salamanca via Medina del Campo. That could bring down the runtime from 2:40 to 1:50 oas soon as the electrification is finished.

Once the high speed line is finished between Olmedo and Media del Campo and a direct connection is build, the runtime should come down by a further 15-20 Minutes.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 09:09 AM   #1687
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Barcelona-Gijón nigh train (trenhotel) is going to be down.
We will have, instead, a daily Barcelona-Gijón train.

This makes two daily frequencies (and one per night) Barcelona/Zaragoza to Vitoria, Leon and Palencia instead of conversely (two per night and one per day)
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Old May 28th, 2013, 09:27 AM   #1688
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Makes sense, with new high-speed lines old nighttime services must go, they lose their reason of existing.

Italy and France cut many night trains after high-speed links opened.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:05 AM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Makes sense, with new high-speed lines old nighttime services must go, they lose their reason of existing.

Italy and France cut many night trains after high-speed links opened.
The night train still uses HSL from Zaragoza to Barcelona but it is not as used as while the day. They just offer luxurious cabins or comfortable seats. No lits.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Makes sense, with new high-speed lines old nighttime services must go, they lose their reason of existing.

Italy and France cut many night trains after high-speed links opened.
It is a 10 hours travel.

If it has been changed to a day train is because they want to promote the traffic between the intermediate stops, wich have more potential than the complete route.

The new train have a lot of offer tickets, 27 € for a 10 hours and 1000 km travel.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #1691
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10 hours to Gijón?

What route does it follow?
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:45 AM   #1692
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Barcelona-Zaragoza (two hours for a 200 km/h train) by HSL
Zaragoza-Leon takes about six hours
Leon-Gijon takes two hours

(more or less)

The problem is that current hotel trains were designed before crisis. They are quite luxurious and not easily affordable for everyone. Using rates are low.

On the other hand you can have, for instance, someone who wants to travel from Vitoria to Zaragoza or from Leon to Burgos or... Two o three hours journey.

If the train has nice timetables they will consider it (currently there is only one daily train)
If the train calls there at four in the night... they will forget it.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
10 hours to Gijón?

What route does it follow?
More or less this one:

https://maps.google.es/maps?saddr=B-...=1,2,3,4,5&z=7
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Old May 28th, 2013, 08:35 PM   #1694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
It might make perfect sense to follow this route to hit all the right intermediate stations, but in terms of speed alone it would be faster to follow the HS line to Valladolid via Madrid (ca 3.5 h) and then take a classical line from there (ca 4.5 h).
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Old May 28th, 2013, 10:47 PM   #1695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It might make perfect sense to follow this route to hit all the right intermediate stations, but in terms of speed alone it would be faster to follow the HS line to Valladolid via Madrid (ca 3.5 h) and then take a classical line from there (ca 4.5 h).
That's possible with 2 transfers at Madrid, if you want to put a direct train following your route it would be an operational nightmare as it would have to change the gauge arriving at Madrid, pass through Atocha (the cercanías station, not the HS Station) go to Chamartin using the collapsed cercanías tunnels and change the gauge again there (and I don't know if it's possible at Chamartin)...

That situation will change soon with the opening of the HS tunnel under Madrid, but for now... it's complicated.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #1696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
10 hours to Gijón?

What route does it follow?
Barcelona-Camp de Tarragona-Lleida-Saragossa (there it leaves the HSL)-Tudela-Castejón-Pamplona-Vitoria-Miranda de Ebro-Burgos-Palencia-Leon-Oviedo-Gijon.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 01:08 AM   #1697
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and in a couple of years Burgos-Palencia-León (and later until near Oviedo) with HSL too


We will have these HSL streches before the Madrid tunnel
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Old May 29th, 2013, 01:13 AM   #1698
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Isn't the Madrid tunnel opening this year?
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Old May 29th, 2013, 01:25 AM   #1699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
We will have these HSL streches before the Madrid tunnel
Really? Late last year it was announced in one of these threads that the tunnel would be partially open already this year. In fact I somehow thought that it already is...
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Old May 29th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #1700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
Isn't the Madrid tunnel opening this year?
- The Seville HSL and the Valencia HSL arrive Madrid from the south. They meet at Torrejon de Velasco, 20 km out of Madrid, but they continue independently until Madrid (they are by-passes between the lines at Torrejon de Velasco).

- The tunnel is part of the Valencia HSL line. Now the Valencia HSL line isn't finished between Torrejon de Velaco and Madrid, so the trains comming from the east change to the Seville HSL the last 20 km to reach Madrid.

- The only place were the Valencia HSL has a conection with other lines is in Torrejon de Velasco (20 km out of Madrid as I said), you can't access the new tunnel via the tracks of Atocha.

- The tunnel is almost done, but the rest 20 km between the end of the tunnel and Torrejon the Velasco aren't expected to be done soon. If the tunnel is completly done it can't be used until the rest of the section is finished.

- Due to the isolation of the Valencia HSL until 20 km south of Madrid, the tunnel can't be reach from the Barcelona line. When the section Torrejon de Velasco-Chamatin will be done we could have trains from Valencia to Valladolid and from Corboba to Valladolid, but not from Barcelona to the North HSL.

A quick graphic of the situation:



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