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Old April 4th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #161
Falcon83
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Originally Posted by frozen View Post

According to Spanish president Spain will be the first country in number of High speed reilway in the world in 2010.
...and the Italians are going to give you the electricity to make it work...
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Old April 4th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #162
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Old April 4th, 2007, 02:21 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by sdf11 View Post

Of course that Italy now it's more powerful than spain, but you can't say that Spain is poorer that our country beacause I think that the quality of life in our city's are better than you.

I can't understand why all the "old" powerful countries in Europe (France, Italy...) want to remember to Spain that is poorer that them...

The time, will say all...
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Old April 4th, 2007, 02:22 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Falcon83 View Post
...and the Italians are going to give you the electricity to make it work...
Stupido e infantile
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Old April 4th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #165
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Am I wrong or the title of the post isn't "Spain: Economic Facts and Comparaison with Italian's Economy and its Worldwide Brands". I might be getting blind lately...
Let's start with "Napo", a modesty example for us all, users of SSC:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napo View Post
Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 .
Who started the discussion in here? What happened is that Spanish forumers replied to your post and they showed how wrong you were. But I'll repeat again what they said before. 30 years ago, only the French (in Europe) had a full high speed line set up and running between Paris and Lyon in 1981 with its world famous TGV with top speeds of 300Km/h. What you had was a TAV line whose construction began in 1970 and only a FIRST STAGE was opened back in 1978. Its construction ended finally in 1991. It's average was 206Km/h and it tops 250Km/h. Spain was JUST one year behind you, since our firt truly HSL opened in april 1992 between Madrid and Seville with speeds as high as 300Km/h and larger than Roma-Florence one.
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Originally Posted by Napo View Post
The Italian High Speed train is the ETR500 (built in Italy by an Italian company, AnsaldoBreda, with technologies developed in Italy, not like in Spain, whose high velocity trains are constructed by French (Alstom) and German(Siemens) companies, with French and German technologies, not spanish.)
While our first HST were based on French technolgies, they were modified for Spanish needs and they were constructed in Spain. I guess you didn't know that. To give facts and not to leave just words here without facts, I'll leave an ALSTOM document that supports my post. Here's the LINK.
Have you ever heard about Talgo or CAF, both of them Spanish? You said you did, but I suppose you didn't thought about them when you wrote that statement above.
Talgo is best known for a design of articulated railway passenger cars in which the wheels are mounted in pairs, but not joined by an axle, and being between rather than underneath the individual coaches. Another feature of the design is the suspension, which allows the vehicle to passively tilt into curves, aiding passenger comfort.
The first successful European tilting train designs were imagined by Talgo, developed in the 1970s as a lightweight, fast train using passive tilt, but the first commercial service of these tilting trains really appeared in the beginning of the eighties, with the Canadian Turbo-Train as a second generation of TALGO. The TALGO is still in production in its 21st generation. TALGO trains are in service in various parts of Europe, and built under licence in Latin America and Asia. In North America, Amtrak uses TALGO trainsets in its Cascades service in the US Northwest, having earlier experimented with them in the Northeast Corridor.
Talgo also introduced Variable Gauge Axles as a need to change the gauge between the Spanish and French borders. It has been used in other places such as China, Russia and Kazakhstan.
Talgo history is full of achievements and has entered recently the HST market with its Talgo 350, designed for a top speed of 330Km/h. It is one of the fastes trains on commercial use around the world and in tests, it reached 368Km/h on spanish tracks with an usual commercial composition and without too much hassle. As an interesting note, Talgo Pendular passenger cars reached an atonishing speed of 500Km/h in a Test Bank in Switzerland back in 1990, very similar to its TGV counterpart.
Spanish High Speed fleet includes some different types of trains, but mainly Spanish developed ones as you can see here: 18 units S-100 (Alstom), 6 units S-101 (Alstom), 16 (30 U/C) units S-102 (Talgo/Bombardier 350), 16 (10 U/C) S-103 (Siemens Velaro), 20 units S-104 (CAF/Alstom), 12 unit S-120 (CAF/Alstom), 26 units S-130 (Talgo/Bombardier)... not to carry on.
In term of HSLs, Spain has already +1000 Km on service (+300Km/h) of them. I believe, and I've made a deep research, that's already larger than the Italian one, if you, Napo, insist in compairing our HSLs system. Our goverment intends to have built and on service 2230Km of them in 2010; and in 2020, 7000Km. The government and its opposition are aware of how important these developments are as Spanish society see "the arrival" of the AVE to their city as a sign of progress. In fact, the government invested another 800 million € for the AVE last 30/3/2007.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napo View Post
Yes yes, Spain is the most developped and richest country in the world, the spanish companies are the biggest on the planet, and spanish trains are the better in Europe. Ok?
But this doesn't mean that you can insult my country. You must be more modest, and you must have more respect for the others countries, many of which are more developped, more important, and richer than Spain.
This thread is called "new HSL in Spain", no "Spain vs Italy" or "Spain vs Germany" or "Spain vs England". If you want to say these things open a new thread:"Spain, the better country in the world".
I hope that this (Off Topic) dicussion ends now.

Saludos a todos amigos espanoles
You cannot say we started these "insults". You made a post arguing that Spanish companies are not known worldwide, we answered you. You said Spain was not developing fast, we gave you facts.
We didn't "denigrate" anyone here. You cannot say Spanish companies are not known or that Spain is developing lately in regards with HST or HSL and saying that this disccussion is ended without letting the other part involved to answer you back.
Sdf11 gave you some data, so did frozen and so will I again.
Spain is not the most developed country, neither the richest or the most important, but you cannot "take away" the one we have.
Spanish companies ARE known worldwide... Telefonica, third largest communication group in the whole world, just behind Veizon and NTT Docomo; Repsol, one of the biggest petrol enterprises in the world; BSCH, the largest bank in Europe and Latin America; BBVA, another bank building its own empire in south-eastern USA -where it's already the largest bank- and Latin America and among the biggest ones in the world.
Spanish construction companies lead the run: Acciona, ACS, FCC, OHL, Ferrovial, Sacyr-Vallehermoso... Six of the 10 top transportation concession companies are based in Spain, constructing and/or managing about 40 percent of all major transportation concessions in the world. Spanish companies are taking their knowledge and experience into an increasing number of markets each year. Indra is the leading Information Technology and Defense Systems company. A third of the world’s air traffic is managed by countries that use systems developed by Indra and ticketing systems developed for underground railway systems, such as those in Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Shanghai, Athens and Santiago de Chile are developed by Indra too.
ZARA and all its other stores: Pull & Bear, Massimo Dutti, Bershka and Stradivarius (INDITEX), group which have stores all around the globe. Spanish fashion designers are also worldwide known as Manolo Blahnik (That famous shoes which make Hollywood actress go mad), Victorio & Lucchino, Roberto Verino, Adolfo Domínguez, Antonio Miró, Agatha Ruiz de la Prada, Pura López... and many other enterprises related to the clothing world such as El Corte Inglés, Loewe, Camper, Mango, Bershka or Pronovias.
Energy Utilities such as Iberdrola, who its expanding really fast and it's the biggest worldwide in terms of renewable energy, Gas Natural or the already mentioned Acciona. Acciona WILL CONTROL Endesa, Spanish largest utility, not Enel. Acciona will have 50.01 of its stakes and ENEL 49.99.
To give you more economical facts Spanish market is the third most active one just behind USA and UK.
This is the last time I'm going to talk about the Spanish economy in this thread. It seems that any post a Spanish forumer does becomes a debate about our economy. We arent the center of the world, we know it, but we are not undeveloped and our enterprises AREN'T NOT known.
This post was about HSL and has become a battle between Spain and Italy. I believe no Spanish forumer started this battle. Anyway as many others said many times... time will say...
"Our convictions" are to learn from what others do, make it better if is possible, and apply it to our needs. We learned from the TGV, a great HST and HSL system with no rival right now.
By the way, Spanish GDP(2005) is 1,236 Trillion $ (IFM) or 1,115 Trillion $ (World Bank)

Last edited by growingup; April 4th, 2007 at 03:24 PM.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #166
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Stupido e infantile
è la verità, babbeo.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #167
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We were talking about a high speed line, weren't we?
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Old April 4th, 2007, 03:43 PM   #168
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STOP WiTH THAT!!

You are childish.

This thread is for High Speed Trains in Spain.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 04:01 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picassoborseli View Post
It will not matter how hard Spain's effort is to develop the country. Others will say that thanks to "their" money Spain is able to built infrastructure like the HSL. No matter how many times we explain that Spain's poorest regions receive the money from the European Union. And that the greatest part of the projects ar fund by the spanish gouvernment and several enterprises...

But that is not their real problem. They are just jalous about the fact that Spain will be a richer country than theirs. When they take a look to the images of new HSL-lines. they look back to the past when Spain was a poor country and when Spaniards always had to look up to the others.
Time is changing and Spain is a devolopped country like France, UK, germany, Italy and The Netherlands.

There's nothing wrong there and those countries are wonderfull in their specific way! Spain has it's bad and good things, like any other country.
This threat is talking about Spanish HSL. If you think it's crap, don't post your crap, because in Spain they allready know that you think In Spain "Things can't be better than in nothern Europe".
Who are you talking about? Which country?
IMO all those self pride arguments are pityful.One can be proud of his country without bashing others. Besides claiming that one's country will have the longest HSL network in the world means what? Did the guy who said that took part in any way in that? Is it thanks to him? I think not.
The less we have, the more we talk. It's like posting pictures of fancy cars in your city (see Dubai thread)...like if they're yours ! Better took the Japanese example: I never heard anybody there who was squirting talking about his country beeing the best, his Maglev beeing the fastest, his Tokyo beeing the richest, his Electronic industry beeing the most powerful, or any shit like that.
Those who say Spain is a poor country should travel a little, and those saying crap like "HSL in my country do 20km/h faster than in yours" may be engineers in this sector(if not, they should shut their trap).
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Old April 4th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #170
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Old April 4th, 2007, 04:34 PM   #171
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Seeing these high-speed developments...makes me envious.

The US has fallen so behind in High-speed rail, that I don't think we will ever catch up.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #172
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To stop the discussion, plese post some pics and more details about Spanish HSL in stead of posting how great each country is!


Some pictures of Spanish High Speed trains:



The Euromed Trains:








AVE 100:








The Old Ave train & The Duck ("pato")


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Old April 5th, 2007, 12:07 AM   #173
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I don´t mind if I repeat my words..:

veery nice pics picassoborseli..!!

thanks..!!
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 11:29 AM   #174
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AVE's birthday: 15 years of High Speed in Spain.
- By 2010, Spain will be the country with the largest High Speed network.
- Connections from La Meseta to Galicia and Asturias are still pending.
El Mundo
Madrid- Seville High Speed Line (HSL), the first in Spain to fulfill those characteristics, began service 15 years ago this saturday. 15 years in which Renfe's fastest train has transported more than 81 million passengers.
Expo '92 could not take away the prominence AVE was worth. Its service, its comfort, and, of course, its speed, has turned it to be passengers' best ally. Today, 15 years ago, nobody could imagine the importance of this railway service. For instance, more than a half of all passengers who used the line, did it in direct services between Madrid and Seville.
As all beginnings, it went little by little. Firstly, just 6 daily trains, then 10, 11, 12, and until the 20 it includes now. Besides, there are services every thirty minutes in rush hours and weekends. Its demand has experienced and ongoing increase in passengers, being diffucult to get a ticket without booking.
Just two hours and a half to bring togheter two cities that were forced to be joined by plane or N-IV highway. It made dissapear long and tiring taffic jams, waiting hours at the airports and made easy a "travelling-worker's life".
Later on, service started in Madrid-Toledo, Madrid-Zaragoza-Huesca and Madrid-Zaragoza-LLeida-Camp de Tarragona lines. This year new stretches will be opened such as Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona, Córdoba-Málaga and Madrid-Valladolid, giving the whole network a total length of 1230 kilometers. But this doesn't stop here. By 2010, Spain will have turned to be the country with the largest Hish Speed network in the world, with 2230Km; surpassing Japan, which will have 2090Km, and France, with will possess 1893Km.
Although AVE has a brigth short-term future, with a 2007 full of lines and trains inaugurations, there are still pending tasks,as the connections with north-western Spain, Galicia and Asturias, which are in informative study; or the Basque "Y".
However, it seems AVE is going to recover in the next years all the building and expanding spirit it lost in 1992, when Madrid-Seville line's 471Km joined the cities in just two hours and a half.
--------
To celebrate it, Renfe is exposing its new HSTs in Madrid and Seville. These are the S-102(Talgo 350), S-103(Siemens Velaro E) and S-130(Talgo), a variable gauge train that will link Madrid with nort-western Spain until HSLs in those places are constructed, using from Valladolid to Madrid the HSL which will be opened later on this year; as it did with Barcelona with the S-120(CAF ATPRD S-120) and Málaga with the Talgo 200. The first Ave's, the French Alstom S-100 are under reforms as a result of a new half-life programme, being the first units reformed exposed during this weekend.
Exteriors:



Clase Club:

Clase Preferente:

Clase Turista:

S-102:

S-103:






S-130:

Last edited by growingup; May 1st, 2007 at 11:29 AM.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:36 PM   #175
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Spain just continues to amaze me on how well and how quickly it builds its infrastructure. The HSL's is a classic example of this. I just wish that our governments in Australia look at how Spain do it. Here we seem to spend so much on studies, studies and more studies but never get anything done. A good example is the NSW Govt's attempt to build a connection link between the North Shore line and the North Western line within its CityRail network, a relatively small distance compared to what they do in Spain, and it costing us so many billions of dollars and is around 6-7 years behind schedule....

Well done Spain...perhaps some of your larger construction companies could look at Australia for investments. The NSW govt as well as some other state govt's are in favour of Public-Private partnerships which allow them to build infrastructure projects much quicker than if the govt's fund it themselves...

Again well done...
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Old April 27th, 2007, 02:01 AM   #176
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Nice new railway lines.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 03:49 AM   #177
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15 years of high speed trains in Spain: since 20/4/1992.
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川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old April 27th, 2007, 04:04 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growingup View Post
S-102:

[IMG]
the duck..

unique..
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Old April 27th, 2007, 01:03 PM   #179
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Todo eso estaba en atocha

Simplemente para correrse...
que flota!!!


madre mi que suerte tenemos...
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Old April 27th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #180
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Magnificent!!!

Post more pics of the Velaro please.

Hope Malaysia gets the Velaro to run on its planned KL-S'pore HSL.
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