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Old December 7th, 2009, 04:45 PM   #2021
slooparch
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Quote:
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^Hard to say for sure. The top was always going to be light metal strips, which could easily be erected with a couple of guys and a small derrick or scaffolding. The bottom two rows were installed. I would have guessed that merely meant they were waiting until roof chiller units were installed using a helicopter lift, but people are now living in the building.

SouthLoopArch/PilsenArch keeps asserting that the top will never be installed, but cites no source for his info.
Based upon general knowledge of construction techniques and structural requirements necessary to build what was originally proposed. What is there now is not a structural system that could ever possibly support the proposed design. Like much of the rest of the building that was seriously dumbed down from the drawings presented to the neighborhood groups, the buidling's crown was chopped off to save $$
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Old December 7th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #2022
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^Sounds like you're assuming the pyramidal top would be masonry, or at least something solid with wind loading considerations. But suppose it was simply a series of 12-inch-wide steel slats arranged in squares, each square 12 inches inside and 8 inches higher than the previous one. Look at the two squares that are already up there, and imagine that series continuing upward. This would only amount to a few hundred pounds of steel.
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Old December 7th, 2009, 07:26 PM   #2023
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^Sounds like you're assuming the pyramidal top would be masonry, or at least something solid with wind loading considerations. But suppose it was simply a series of 12-inch-wide steel slats arranged in squares, each square 12 inches inside and 8 inches higher than the previous one. Look at the two squares that are already up there, and imagine that series continuing upward. This would only amount to a few hundred pounds of steel.
No, I wasn't assuming masonry. The construction you describe would need very significant steel framing behind it to transfer the wind loads which still would be very substantial. Based upon the framing already up there, there is no indication that they intend to have any future significant wind load other then the minimal conditions that would result from the existing (rather minimal both visually and structrually) construction. Futhermore, just based upon construction techniques of the various trades, it would be highly unlikely for the subcontractor to construct 10% of the pyramid only to have to come back and set up all over again to construct the rest without a very good sequencing reason.

Hey, I would love to see this finished, but based upon the other cuts they already made to this project and this particular developers desire to put up arguably the worst schlock on the skyline during the recent boom, that is why I can gurantee you, it is finished.
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Old December 8th, 2009, 10:54 PM   #2024
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So is the "Illinois Center for Broadcasting" taking part of the first floor space in Library Tower?
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Old December 8th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #2025
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I haven't heard that. I've been told that Columbia is leasing space there.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 03:28 AM   #2026
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Fogelson's Gateway project

http://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdo...dogs14.article

What was Michael Scott's last big deal?
BY TIM NOVAK, CHRIS FUSCO, FRAN SPIELMAN AND DAVID ROEDER
December 14, 2009


Even as he served on the city's Olympic planning committee, Michael W. Scott, the late Chicago School Board president, was also involved in a multibillion-dollar lakefront development project near the proposed Olympic village, records and interviews show.

Scott, who was a close friend and political ally of Mayor Daley, was a consultant on the proposed condo-and-hotel project across from Soldier Field when he committed suicide last month. Since January, he had been getting paid an undisclosed monthly fee from developer Gerald W. Fogelson, according to B. Timothy Desmond, president of Fogelson Properties Inc.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 04:17 PM   #2027
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They want half a billion dollars in TIF money? Good luck with that.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 04:52 PM   #2028
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Hell, Roosevelt Collection is now trying to get TIF money for tenant buildout.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 08:49 PM   #2029
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With all the students taking up residence in the S. Loop, it seems to me that this area of town will evolve into something akin to the NYU area of Greenwich Village (although less intense). Even Dearborn park may some day become student housing once the old fogies who live in those houses pass away
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Old December 19th, 2009, 06:51 AM   #2030
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Just got this Friday in a newsletter from Ald. Fioretti:

[COLOR="Navy"][FONT="Georgia"]LaSalle-Congress Intermodal Transfer Center

I am very happy to present this project to 2nd Ward residents and businesspeople. The City of Chicago intends this project to make it easier to get from the La Salle Street Metra station to nearby CTA buses. The new connection will feature two new dedicated CTA bus lanes on Financial Place.

[img]http://i40.************/24griht.jpg[/img]

What ever happend with this project? I thought it was supposed to break ground in August?
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Old December 19th, 2009, 07:55 AM   #2031
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Even Dearborn Park may some day become student housing
Already happening in the highrises, which at age 30 are nearing 25% rental. Some are straight rentals from investment owners; others are daddy-owned. My building seems to have a fair number of med students for some reason. You know how rowdy they can be.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 06:09 PM   #2032
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^

Rowdy, drunk college students also make for less vocal NIMBY's, so that in 20-30 years when a developer comes in and starts buying up property in Dearborn Park, perhaps there is hope that something worthwhile can be built to replace it.
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Old December 19th, 2009, 11:16 PM   #2033
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I don't see that really happening, because all of Dearborn I and most of Dearborn II is grouped into condo and homeowner associations. So until a developer owned two-thirds of the units in the association, he'd be unable to change the declaration. Stranger things have happened, though; in the 1990s there were entire small subdivisions in Atlanta, Houston, and Oakbrook Terrace that sold out en masse to developers.

It's rather naīve to assume that townhouse-scale development always and inevitably gives way to highrise development. There's obviously a market for both, and it's so much easier to develop new highrises on vacant or nonresidential sites that the troublesome and expensive land assembly you posit almost never occurs in North America. Even Manhattan is still full of townhouses.

Last edited by Mr Downtown; December 19th, 2009 at 11:22 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 06:05 AM   #2034
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^ I'm not talking about the whole neighborhood (DP 2, especially) being redeveloped, just the perimeter of it, such that:

1) higher density mixed uses face the surrounding streets
2) something less insulting than a wall faces Clark

and, perhaps some day:

3) Better street connections to the surrounding neighborhood.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 07:59 AM   #2035
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Well, you'll get no argument from me that the place would be nicer if those things happened. But what force is there to bring them about? Our only imperialist, Mayor Daley, looked at the low crime rate of Dearborn Park in the 90s and--misinterpreting the reasons--promptly began turning streets all over the city into cul-de-sacs.

People tend to like their neighborhoods the way they are, and resist any change. How will you get them to voluntarily do things that they perceive as detrimental to their own enjoyment and safety?
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:37 AM   #2036
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With all the students taking up residence in the S. Loop, it seems to me that this area of town will evolve into something akin to the NYU area of Greenwich Village (although less intense). Even Dearborn park may some day become student housing once the old fogies who live in those houses pass away
I don't see students taking over Dearborn Park. With the two new towers at Roosevelt, I see everyone shifting north. The University Center and other student residences will lose residents from Roosevelt and open up space for other students. Some students will continue to rent in some of the taller buildings in DP or Printers Row, but I can't imagine any students wanting to live in the townhouses of DP.

Plus with JCP being one of the top 100 high schools in the country (which may be the top in the City after they rebuild it) and with the CPS looking like they will give more spots to local residents, I am anticipating the townhomes in DP and DPII will become much more valuable to families. Just think of all the money people pay to live in Naperville and Hinsdale (instead of the town next door) just because of the schools.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:37 AM   #2037
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People tend to like their neighborhoods the way they are, and resist any change. How will you get them to voluntarily do things that they perceive as detrimental to their own enjoyment and safety?
^ By waiting for them to die. And once their descendants rent out their property to oblivious temporary residents they'll be less hesitant to sell at a higher price to real estate developers who will, like vultures, be circling this highly underdeveloped piece of real estate in a future in which developable land in the South Loop becomes scarce
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Old December 21st, 2009, 07:21 AM   #2038
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^You do know that, generally in the US, when someone ages or dies, they just sell their house to someone else, right? There's no requirement for it to stay with their heirs. I doubt that more than 20 of the white townhouses are owned by the original owners at this point. Nor are they rented out. They have appreciative new owners who aren't going to be any more keen than their predecessors on having a highrise next door or having through traffic on the street out front.

And when you really study it, there's not really much place to put a new highrise. There are already highrises or midrises on nearly the whole periphery. Those little townhouses that back up to State Street south of 11th are bad for the streetscape on State, but the parcels are really not deep enough to ever build anything else there. About the only opportunity I see for a highrise would be the Garden Homes and their garages at NWC Plymouth/Roosevelt. That was originally to have been the site of the third highrise, but the first two had sold so slowly that in 1984 DPC gave up and sold it to a townhouse developer. I could maybe imagine a developer, 20 years from now, buying those up and doing a building entered from Roosevelt, with the good views north across the white townhomes to the skyline.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 07:35 AM   #2039
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^ Point taken.

Perhaps economic/development pressures will change things in the future? God knows.

All I know is, DP2 doesn't have to completely bite the dust to be a more neighbor-friendly, city-embracing development. 90% of the neighborhood can remain completely unchanged, it just needs a few tweaks and I would never criticize that place again..
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Old December 31st, 2009, 03:49 PM   #2040
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16th/Wabash Garage Gone

The old garage on 16th/Wabash was completely torn down this week. Does anyone know if there's a new building that will replace it? The last rumor I heard was that only the roof of the garage was being replaced, but apparently that's not true since the whole building is now gone.

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