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Old May 9th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #341
Abner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latoso View Post
Not true. This is the laziest way: I like it therefore it should be put up. That notwithstanding, is the reason I am for it. Also, my great grandmother was 100% full blooded Native American so please don't tell me my reason isn't good enough. Besides, 99% of the time the people "defending" Indian rights aren't even Native American, just white people trying to clear a guilty conscience of something they didn't even do, their ancestors did.
Why would you bother responding to an argument you either did not read or did not understand? I think there's such a thing as manners, even on the internet. How many times do I have to say that I don't care who is or is not Native American? This isn't about being sensitive to any organization's demands. That's a copout.

It's painfully ironic to me that this city's way of honoring history is apparently to distort it, and that the people clamoring most loudly to put up this monument to commemorate an event are the people who apparently are the least thoughtful about the event.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 10:12 AM   #342
Latoso
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You're saying that American Indian Center Executive Director Joseph Podlasek does not speak for American Indians, but that you, being one-eighth Indian, are capable of doing so?
I doubt he's 100% with a name like Podlasek, unless there's some lost Eastern European tribe I didn't learn about. And I'm actually more than 1/8 Native American, it's just that my great grandmother was the most recent 100% Native American in my family and because of my ancestry my opinion is as valid as anyone elses, Mr, Podlasek included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abner View Post
Why would you bother responding to an argument you either did not read or did not understand? I think there's such a thing as manners, even on the internet. How many times do I have to say that I don't care who is or is not Native American? This isn't about being sensitive to any organization's demands. That's a copout.
Just because I don't agree with someone's argument doesn't mean I don't understand it. Talk about bad manners. And I realize you don't care about who is or isn't Native American or being sensitive to an organizations demands. That's the real problem, not a copout.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 05:27 PM   #343
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Can We Move this to another thread?

Fascinating and valuable debate on the sculpture. However, this seems to have had enough discussion to merit its own thread or to be had in the cultural development thread were other memorial and artistic sculptures reside. Anyone agree that the Black Partridge Park should have its own thread?

Last edited by Chicagotom; May 9th, 2007 at 06:48 PM.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #344
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VOID

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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:47 PM   #345
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..

Last edited by Loopy; May 18th, 2010 at 07:01 PM.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #346
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HOM=Aristocrat Tower

Same design, Same height. Just got this email and called to confirm that the building is exactly the same design, height and location as the Aristocrat Tower.

Thank you for registering as a VIP with HOM, the South Loopís newest concept in condo living! For one week only, we are offering our esteemed VIP web registrants the opportunity of a special sneak preview of HOM! Included in the sneak preview are exciting exclusive offers just for you, the HOM VIP, including:

5% off the purchase price of your home
1 year of free assessments
AND
3 amenity package selections instead of 2

Canít decide between the gourmet kitchen, smart home and spa bathroom package? You donít have to! You can have them all, but only if you schedule your preview appointment today!

We are now making VIP appointments from Monday, May 14 through Sunday, May 20, 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Sneak preview incentives will only be offered to those who schedule an appointment.

Please feel free to contact me via e-mail or at 312.528.1000 to schedule your appointment today!

Warmest regards,


Ellen Amerikan
Sales Manager




HOM
2028 S. Prairie Avenue
Chicago, IL 60616
312.528.1000
312.528.0551 (fax)
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Old May 9th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #347
ErmDiego
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Warman Aristocrat

[QUOTE=Chicagotom;13082716]Same design, Same height. Just got this email and called to confirm that the building is exactly the same design, height and location as the Aristocrat Tower.

Thank you for registering as a VIP with HOM, the South Loopís newest concept in condo living! For one week only, we are offering our esteemed VIP web registrants the opportunity of a special sneak preview of HOM! Included in the sneak preview are exciting exclusive offers just for you, the HOM VIP, including:

5% off the purchase price of your home
1 year of free assessments
AND
3 amenity package selections instead of 2

1. Tower looks to be another 2-3 stories taller
2. Looks like they eliminated the studios -
3. Some of the packages (like molding) are not worth $15K - take
the money and do it yourself.
4. I really hope his quality is better than all of his recent projects, which
almost ALL have bombed with problems (East 14th, 1717, 221 East
Cullerton, 1515 State (lofts)). We are talking major assessments for
new construction, and Warman's quote in Sun Times, 'I am the developer,
how am I supposed to control the quality of the contractors'...are you
kidding me. You may has well put $15K in savings for problems.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 07:24 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abner View Post
Why would you bother responding to an argument you either did not read or did not understand? I think there's such a thing as manners, even on the internet.
Please read your own posts again before you start lecturing anyone about manners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abner View Post
It's painfully ironic to me that this city's way of honoring history is apparently to distort it, and that the people clamoring most loudly to put up this monument to commemorate an event are the people who apparently are the least thoughtful about the event.
Through your apparent superpowers, I see that you have been able to determine who has been thoughtful about the event. Let me guess. Hmmmmmm.....you?
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Old May 10th, 2007, 08:29 PM   #349
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Quote:
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SLScotty, Your right. I should have said "everything stopped" on Astoria Tower. I think the mid-rise that you bought in will be great for that stretch of State. Have you heard of any retail leases signed on the ground floor?
I haven't heard of anything other than an X-Sport Gym that is supposed to go in. More food options would be nice! A Trader Joe's would be even better!
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Old May 10th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #350
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I haven't heard of anything other than an X-Sport Gym that is supposed to go in. More food options would be nice! A Trader Joe's would be even better!
I would love to see a Trader Joe's around here. My wife and I were talking about that the other day because we hope they put one in the Roosevelt Collection.
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Old May 12th, 2007, 02:13 AM   #351
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Quote:
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I would love to see a Trader Joe's around here. My wife and I were talking about that the other day because we hope they put one in the Roosevelt Collection.

Surely 100,000 residents will warrant one! (I don't care where, as long as it's in walking distance)
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Old May 13th, 2007, 01:30 AM   #352
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Southloop Skyline





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Old May 13th, 2007, 02:18 AM   #353
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Vision on State,
What a mistake.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 06:11 AM   #354
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Now that's what I like, a man outstanding in his field. Sorry edsg.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 06:17 AM   #355
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Quote:
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Vision on State,
What a mistake.
I partially disagree. I think some good can come out of having such a good poster child of what can happen when you listen to NIMBYs. If you don't want tall and thin, this is what you're going to get.
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Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will themselves not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work, remembering that a noble, logical diagram once recorded will not die. - Daniel Burnham
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Old May 13th, 2007, 06:57 AM   #356
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Quote:
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I think some good can come out of having such a good poster child of what can happen when you listen to NIMBYs.
What do you mean by "listen to NIMBYs?"

I was in the neighborhood meetings. The only questions we raised were whether the developer could put in black iron so one of the retail tenants could be a real restaurant. Vision on State is exactly as the developer envisioned it.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 07:48 AM   #357
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Not to sound deriding, but why didn't you raise the question to have a little better design?
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Old May 13th, 2007, 04:39 PM   #358
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Better Design

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Originally Posted by BorisMolotov View Post
Not to sound deriding, but why didn't you raise the question to have a little better design?
How can you do this, when architects claim "better design" is subjective, and in the eye of the beholder?
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Old May 13th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #359
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What?

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I partially disagree. I think some good can come out of having such a good poster child of what can happen when you listen to NIMBYs. If you don't want tall and thin, this is what you're going to get.
What do "NIMBYs" have to do with this? The developer built exactly what his original design submitted for the project. If people started complaining about the design, the would be instantly labled non-educated NIMBYs. I like beautiful buildings, regardless of "tall and thin" or "short or squaty", as long as it is quality work and material, but when did developers start having the only say in development?

The use of "tall and thin" design phylosophy is a convenient phrase or excuse to throw out when DPD or developers want to go higher than what should be normal. Kind of like when they credit or praise a developer who refers to the Central plan in his presentation (Post Office), but claims the plan is not binding when it is a controversial project.

By your standards, would you consider 1712 S. Michigan "tall and thin"?
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Old May 13th, 2007, 07:47 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisMolotov View Post
why didn't you raise the question to have a little better design?
Well, why don't you lay out how that conversation would go? You're sitting in a room with the developer and the architect and his renderings of Vision on State. What exactly do you say?

I did ask if the architect considered making the "fins" deeper, to provide more of a reveal and greater interplay of light and shadow. As best as I remember, he responded that the developer had been concerned about the additional materials cost of doing that. I also remember that they had started the meeting by explaining that they wanted to do a "solid-looking" building that would be a counterpoint to the glassy towers of Central Station when viewed from the west.

I left the meeting knowing it would be a background building, but that it committed no horrible urban design sins. I feel the proper rŰle for community groups is to look at the urban design implications of a new building--impact on pedestrians, contribution to the streetscape, microclimate effects--and impact on the surrounding infrastructure. The one instance I remember where community groups weighed in on the design of a new building was Marquee on Michigan. So the developer/architect simply amputated the features we pointed out as objectionable (namely the mansard roof capping corner balconies) without doing anything to improve the composition of the building, so we ended up worse off than before.
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