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Old January 7th, 2008, 11:38 PM   #1321
Sir Isaac Newton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Avenue View Post
So why is it up to PDNA? What are people here doing to preserve this particular building? PDNA has a pretty focused charter and this is outside those boundaries isn't it?
X/O is out of the Prairie District, just as this building is. True, X/O might only be a half block away from the Prairie District, but this building in only 2 blocks away itself. So it seems pretty hypocritical that PDNA would not say anything about a nearby historic building being DEMOLISHED, whereas they threw a fit about a new building being constructed, that wouldn't even involve demolishing a historic building.

And as for what people are doing to preserve this particular building - people on here, including TUP who lives all the way in NYC, are already voicing their opposition to it. You and the rest of PDNA live two blocks away and are doing nothing. Like a few people have already mentioned, it doesn't seem that you and PDNA cared about the "character" and "integrity" of the Prairie District, as you all claimed, when opposing X/O. Rather, it just seems that all of you protested against X/O because of the typical NIMBY reasons - don't want to lose views, want to hog a neighborhood all to yourself and a few other select few, somehow expect that you should be entitled to 100% traffic free streets in your neighborhood in the 3rd largest city in the US, etc.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 11:38 PM   #1322
ardecila
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People here are doing things. I know of several people at the moment who are working to foment a preservation movement for the ABC Building - it must be done ASAP.

It is Orange-rated, which means it cannot be demolished without a public notice and a delay of up to 90 days.

Rather than being sore about our points of disagreement, why not work together on this one issue? The property in question is within a stone's throw of the historic Prairie District. It and Lakeside Center next door are handsome bookends to the neighborhood against the monolithic McCormick Place to the south and east. Surely you must see the value in preserving this building, which maintains human scale in detail and massing, when the replacement is likely to destroy that same scale insensitively?

Maybe this is just a stab at the dark, but the new hotel building will be designed by Lucien LaGrange! Come on, he's your nemesis!

Last edited by ardecila; January 7th, 2008 at 11:59 PM.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Avenue View Post
So why is it up to PDNA? What are people here doing to preserve this particular building? PDNA has a pretty focused charter and this is outside those boundaries isn't it?
They have a chance to throw their significant heft against a project that seeks to destroy an existing, culturally-important structure. If you maintain this to be the view of the PDNA, and if they furthermore bristle at the request for help out of spite, then they are the most useless, contemptible urban group in the city. EDIT: Hyperbole, but historic buildings like this slated for demolition are heartbreaking, especially when there ways around it. It really strikes a nerve.

Last edited by Ch.G, Ch.G; January 8th, 2008 at 01:54 PM.
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Old January 7th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by Prairie Avenue View Post
I agree that the building and streetscape there is worthy of preservation, but having walked by there constantly can't recall any activity in that building.
It has been owned for several years by Pam Gleichman and Karl Norberg, who have sadly let the building sit largely unused. They have made several redevelopment proposals over the years. These proposals always included the preservation and re-use of the ABC Building and so nobody was worried. Now they have made motions to sell the property to Alter Group, which may have a radically different plan.

Besides the plywood windows on the tower and in the arches on the first story, the ABC Building looks in remarkably good condition.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 12:11 AM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
It has been owned for several years by Pam Gleichman and Karl Norberg, who have sadly let the building sit largely unused. They have made several redevelopment proposals over the years. These proposals always included the preservation and re-use of the ABC Building and so nobody was worried. Now they have made motions to sell the property to Alter Group, which may have a radically different plan.

Besides the plywood windows on the tower and in the arches on the first story, the ABC Building looks in remarkably good condition.
Just curious - does the ABC Building like on the entire property that the Alter Group is planning on buying? Or is part of the property an empty lot/undeveloped? If part of the property is undeveloped, why not just build one hotel tower and build it on the undeveloped area and simply make it taller....and the ABC Building could be used for a casino - it does seem to have the wide floorplan to allow for that.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 02:42 AM   #1326
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Last edited by Loopy; May 19th, 2010 at 02:59 AM. Reason: Re-sized image
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Old January 8th, 2008, 05:24 AM   #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Avenue View Post
This forum has banned the most prominent PDNA spokesperson here. Kind of hard for "them" to respond in those cirumstances.
^ You know, would it kill you to recognize, at least in part, what he was banned for? Childish, insulting, often sexually-explicit name-calling and rude behavior. J. Zekas and others at YoChicago have called him out for the same thing several times (unfortunately, there is no such thing as 'banning' at YoChicago), if you ever visit that site.

Quote:
I agree that the building and streetscape there is worhty of preservation, but having walked by there constantly can't recall any activity in that building. What happened to let the market decide development?
^ All I'm saying is, perhaps if PDNA wants to make the case of 'character' front and center in their argument for everything as they have before, they should take a stand against the demolition of a pretty nice looking classic Chicago structure that's in the vicinity of their neighborhood.

PA, these two buildings, even if they're not technically within PDNA's "jurisdiction" (nor is X/O, as others have mentioned), form a pretty important gateway to the neighborhood from McCormick Convention Center. I can only give my opinion, but I find the combination of both classic buildings next to eachother simply stunning. And for a city that is fighting off Vegas and Orlando as a convention destination, buildings like this are one thing Chicago has TO ITS ADVANTAGE. Where in Vegas or Orlando can you look out the giant windows of your convention and gaze upon a century old, graceful, masonry-clad streetscape from the glory days of American industry?
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Old January 8th, 2008, 06:22 AM   #1328
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TUP hit the nail on the head. By the way, Preservation Chicago is working on the American Book Company issue at this very moment. This effort is very important.

Preservation Chicago and Landmarks Illinois have been struggling with the McCormick Place area for the past seven years. With the Indiana Avenue side of Motor Row (partly demolished), the Indiana Flats (now demolished), the Adams Laundry Company building (now demolished) and the Platt Luggage (now demolished but with facade saved and reconstructed nearby.

The fights have all been balanced against the need for expanding the convention center itself. The American Book Company DOES NOT FIT THAT CRITERIA. It's demolition is completely avoidable. It is not in the way of any expansion by McCormick Place. In fact, the well-being of McCormick Place would actually be harmed by demolition, for the reasons so well put by TUP. The American Book Company must be saved. Let's see if city officials, including DPD officials and Alderman Fioretti, do the right thing.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:44 PM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loopy View Post
The red outlined area is the property that Alter purchased and wants to develop. As you can see, there is plenty of room to build a hotel while saving the structure in question.

The area outside the red boundary but within that block: are those surface lots or rooftops? And, if they are surface lots, they're not part of the purchase?
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Old January 8th, 2008, 04:51 PM   #1330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
The area outside the red boundary but within that block: are those surface lots or rooftops? And, if they are surface lots, they're not part of the purchase?
Take a look at the picture in post #1316 of this thread. Cars are parked on the west side of the ABC building along Cermak. That must be a parking lot that belongs to the building just to the north of it.

As far as the cutout on the north side of the parcel along 21st street, i have no idea.

EDIT: I'm going to check out google maps streetview to take a look around. =)
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Old January 8th, 2008, 05:37 PM   #1331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Urban Politician View Post
^

All I'm saying is, perhaps if PDNA wants to make the case of 'character' front and center in their argument for everything as they have before, they should take a stand against the demolition of a pretty nice looking classic Chicago structure that's in the vicinity of their neighborhood.

PA, these two buildings, even if they're not technically within PDNA's "jurisdiction" (nor is X/O, as others have mentioned), form a pretty important gateway to the neighborhood from McCormick Convention Center. I can only give my opinion, but I find the combination of both classic buildings next to eachother simply stunning. And for a city that is fighting off Vegas and Orlando as a convention destination, buildings like this are one thing Chicago has TO ITS ADVANTAGE. Where in Vegas or Orlando can you look out the giant windows of your convention and gaze upon a century old, graceful, masonry-clad streetscape from the glory days of American industry?
I am not within the leadership of PDNA, nor hooked into their daily activities and probably should have drawn on sources there before even posting. But here is good information on the subject from PDNA:

"Any plan that does not include the restoration and reuse of the ABC Book Building at 2132 S. Calumet is absolutely unacceptable. The tear-down of such a great structure would be akin to architecturally negligent homicide. As an example, the city and McPier spent millions to add the facade to the neighboring McCormick Utility building /Hyatt Garage in 2003, thus it is unconscionable that anyone would not want consider adaptive reuse of this terrific structure next door.

The PDNA is already engaging the development team to understand scope, positive and negative impacts to neighboring residents, and ensuring development integrity is in character with the surrounding Prairie District. However, realize, plans have only publically surfaced in the last two weeks.

It seems Ardicela is the only one with common sense. This is the 3rd such proposed projects for these parcels (Prairie Blocks by Gleichman, followed by a proposal by Thor Industries and Bill Warman). All original plans included reuse of the ABC Book Building. Note this did not include the secondary add-on behind the ABC Book building on the corner of 21st and Calumet. As such, such current plans have a long way to go, including ensuring that this is not a 3rd publicity stunt to drum up value for this property, or impact property value of the neighboring parcel, which McPier is seeking to obtain under eminent domain.

As to claims that "X/O is out of the Prairie District, just as this building is. True, X/O might only be a half block away from the Prairie District, but this building in only 2 blocks away itself.". Again, this is factually false, as defined by the City of Chicago development plans, the "Prairie District" includes parcels from North of 16th street to 21st. The Prairie District is more than just the landmarked parcels in the center. However, the parcel for this development borders and directly impacts the Prairie District, and as such the PDNA will be actively involved in all phases including a primary goal of ensuring preservation of the ABC Book Building."

Hope that answers the question originally posed about what is PDNA doing and also ends the false assumptions here that because this building doesn't block any views they had no interest in preservation.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 06:53 PM   #1332
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Old January 8th, 2008, 10:03 PM   #1333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Avenue View Post
I am not within the leadership of PDNA, nor hooked into their daily activities and probably should have drawn on sources there before even posting. But here is good information on the subject from PDNA:

"Any plan that does not include the restoration and reuse of the ABC Book Building at 2132 S. Calumet is absolutely unacceptable. The tear-down of such a great structure would be akin to architecturally negligent homicide. As an example, the city and McPier spent millions to add the facade to the neighboring McCormick Utility building /Hyatt Garage in 2003, thus it is unconscionable that anyone would not want consider adaptive reuse of this terrific structure next door.

The PDNA is already engaging the development team to understand scope, positive and negative impacts to neighboring residents, and ensuring development integrity is in character with the surrounding Prairie District. However, realize, plans have only publically surfaced in the last two weeks.

It seems Ardicela is the only one with common sense. This is the 3rd such proposed projects for these parcels (Prairie Blocks by Gleichman, followed by a proposal by Thor Industries and Bill Warman). All original plans included reuse of the ABC Book Building. Note this did not include the secondary add-on behind the ABC Book building on the corner of 21st and Calumet. As such, such current plans have a long way to go, including ensuring that this is not a 3rd publicity stunt to drum up value for this property, or impact property value of the neighboring parcel, which McPier is seeking to obtain under eminent domain.

As to claims that "X/O is out of the Prairie District, just as this building is. True, X/O might only be a half block away from the Prairie District, but this building in only 2 blocks away itself.". Again, this is factually false, as defined by the City of Chicago development plans, the "Prairie District" includes parcels from North of 16th street to 21st. The Prairie District is more than just the landmarked parcels in the center. However, the parcel for this development borders and directly impacts the Prairie District, and as such the PDNA will be actively involved in all phases including a primary goal of ensuring preservation of the ABC Book Building."

Hope that answers the question originally posed about what is PDNA doing and also ends the false assumptions here that because this building doesn't block any views they had no interest in preservation.
You gotta like the sound of that.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #1334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Avenue View Post
"Any plan that does not include the restoration and reuse of the ABC Book Building at 2132 S. Calumet is absolutely unacceptable. The tear-down of such a great structure would be akin to architecturally negligent homicide. As an example, the city and McPier spent millions to add the facade to the neighboring McCormick Utility building /Hyatt Garage in 2003, thus it is unconscionable that anyone would not want consider adaptive reuse of this terrific structure next door.

The PDNA is already engaging the development team to understand scope, positive and negative impacts to neighboring residents, and ensuring development integrity is in character with the surrounding Prairie District. However, realize, plans have only publically surfaced in the last two weeks.

It seems Ardicela is the only one with common sense. This is the 3rd such proposed projects for these parcels (Prairie Blocks by Gleichman, followed by a proposal by Thor Industries and Bill Warman). All original plans included reuse of the ABC Book Building. Note this did not include the secondary add-on behind the ABC Book building on the corner of 21st and Calumet. As such, such current plans have a long way to go, including ensuring that this is not a 3rd publicity stunt to drum up value for this property, or impact property value of the neighboring parcel, which McPier is seeking to obtain under eminent domain.

As to claims that "X/O is out of the Prairie District, just as this building is. True, X/O might only be a half block away from the Prairie District, but this building in only 2 blocks away itself.". Again, this is factually false, as defined by the City of Chicago development plans, the "Prairie District" includes parcels from North of 16th street to 21st. The Prairie District is more than just the landmarked parcels in the center. However, the parcel for this development borders and directly impacts the Prairie District, and as such the PDNA will be actively involved in all phases including a primary goal of ensuring preservation of the ABC Book Building."

Hope that answers the question originally posed about what is PDNA doing and also ends the false assumptions here that because this building doesn't block any views they had no interest in preservation.
This update was very helpful; thank you for clarifying the subject. I especially like just how emphatic their statement is about adaptive reuse of the structure in question.

Considering the choice of architect, I wonder if the community would favor stock Lagrange "traditional" architecture over something perhaps more modern a la Eerie on the Park? Especially given the to-do over the other Lagrange building that will likely bookend this project...?
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #1335
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I would be interested to see what studio gang could do with this while tying in the current ABC book building; that is, of course, if it's a good idea to go modern.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 05:28 AM   #1336
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Old January 9th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #1337
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http://www.suntimes.com/business/roe...eder09.article

Live Nation has eyes on Uptown
BY DAVID ROEDER


DOING THE DEALS:In a $3.1 million sale, a partnership controlled by Near South Side investor Karl Norberg purchased a 30,000-square-foot industrial building at 2229 S. Michigan, an area getting heavy attention these days because of the McCormick Place expansion. Norberg will convert the first floor to a restaurant and the second and third floors to offices, said Paine/Wetzel Oncor International, which represented the seller, John Clarkson.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 03:55 AM   #1338
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Old January 12th, 2008, 05:42 AM   #1339
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The 5-story addition is on the parking lot behind the building. This may be our only chance to lose this particular lot, so whatever the design, I'll take it, so long as it's sufficiently urban (comes up to the sidewalk). It won't modify the existing building and it won't be visible from Michigan unless you look down Congress.

Steinway Hall used to stand where this lot is today. In this building, many early Prairie School architects set up shop in order to be close to their mentor, Louis Sullivan, across the street in the Auditorium Building.
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Old January 12th, 2008, 06:35 AM   #1340
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