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Old February 4th, 2008, 02:30 AM   #1381
McCreative
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheLoopSam View Post
Ok - as I read the article in the Trip about the school issue referendum I actually became a little nauseated.......
I hear you on that. My wife's a part of the South Loop Mom's & Tots group. They're all fired up over this and they put up anti-referendum fliers adjacent (not on top) to the pro-referendum fliers only to have them all ripped down in less than 24 hours.

The whole Dearborn Park Community Group is spearheading the referendum but is rather secretive about who actually belongs. I guess a secret handshake is needed...that and a lot of useless anger.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 09:20 AM   #1382
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Sorry, I was clear as mud on that one. The lot I'm referring to is at the northeast corner at Clark and Cermak. It's the square parcel that's just south of the Hillard Homes' parking lot. The hotel lot is on the western side of Clark and Archer. That project has yet to begin.
According to Zoning, that parcel is part of the Hillard Homes PD, so whatever is going on there must be something done by CHA. If you go on their website, CHA has a video showing 3d renderings of the renovated Hilliard Homes. No new buildings, but the landscaping is drastically re-done. The parcel that you describe is shown as being grass-covered, so they may just be breaking up the pavement for topsoil and grass seed/sod.

Last edited by ardecila; February 4th, 2008 at 09:43 AM.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #1383
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this xenophobic hysteria from the people in their little fortress is pretty disgusting
haha, I think we can all sleep well at night with the assurance that xenophobia has very little to do with this referendum. Big word, though!
Nice
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Old February 4th, 2008, 04:26 PM   #1384
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Public Questions

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Originally Posted by McCreative View Post
Being a neophyte to the political process, how does one get such a referendum on the ballot? I would think that it would take a certain number of signatures.
It takes a percentage of voters in that precinct that voted for the winning governor in that race's last cycle. In this case it took 40 signatures on the petition. Those signing were the same anti-school, fence lawsuit residents in DP II, including Journal contributor McGrath. Again I say the NIMBYism of those folks far exceeds anything you can allege against PDNA. I ought to post a copy of their fence lawsuit -- one of the allegations is that an unnamed south loop student told an unidentified resident to get out of the park as it now belonged to the school -- boo hoo! This group posted vote yes signs and when an opposing group of their own residents responded by posting vote no flyers, they tore those down. Where do people find time and energy for this stuff?

Last edited by Prairie Avenue; February 4th, 2008 at 05:01 PM. Reason: correction
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Old February 4th, 2008, 04:44 PM   #1385
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Where do people find time and energy for this stuff?
Indeed John. But weren't YOU walking around DPII posting silly Fioretti anti-referendum flyers on every door in the neighborhood yesterday?

On Super Bowl Sunday no less?
Yeesh.
How many did you hand out? Over a hundred?
You're absolutely right - you'd think there would be better things to do

Go Bears!
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Old February 4th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #1386
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frk4hky is back

Banned as frk4hky now back as Chicago Geek. Who controls the IP address check here?
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Old February 4th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #1387
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Banned as frk4hky now back as Chicago Geek. Who controls the IP address check here?
?

Dunno about all that.

I'm just pointing out the subtle hypocrisy of your stated position.
Or is that not allowed somehow? Or perhaps its just inconvenient?

<sigh>
Another small example of our fine local leadership at work. Go team!
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Old February 4th, 2008, 06:26 PM   #1388
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[QUOTE=ChicagoGeek;181818
I'm just pointing out the subtle hypocrisy of your stated position.
Or is that not allowed somehow? Or perhaps its just inconvenient?

My post didn't refer to electioneering but the ripping down of signs posted by Dearborn Residents with a view that apparently is the opposite of yours. Hypocrisy would be calling for voter input by filing public questions on the one hand, and stifling voter activity by ripping down opposing signs and making harrassing phone calls to people who put their names on those flyers.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 06:57 PM   #1389
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[QUOTE=ChicagoGeek;181818
Hypocrisy would be calling for voter input by filing public questions on the one hand, and stifling voter activity by ripping down opposing signs and making harrassing phone calls to people who put their names on those flyers.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps. Alternatively,
hypocrisy is more succinctly defined by saying one thing and doing another

Your attempts to label all people in DBII with a single broad stroke of NIMBY'ism, elitism, racism, anti-children, etc... IMHO simply shows a lack of critical thought. I mean really, do you think that people who live on one side of State Street are somehow fundamentally different from the other side? There's no other explanation that might be a bit more plausible? Really?

You may not agree with their positions, but to reduce yourself to such divisive politicking and name-calling doesn't lead toward toward solutions, but rather continues to fester the problems. Which, not to point out the obvious, it has.

Not sure who did the ripping down, that was indeed silly.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 07:55 PM   #1390
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I don't live in the area, I have no personal interest in this fight and I am not choosing a side.

I am just writing to disagree with critics who say things like "...Don't you have anything better to do?...."

Such statements ignore the fact that persons from BOTH sides of this issue may very likely be doing many other things, from volunteering to activism elsewhere.

Furthermore, I respect people who take the time to stand up for what they feel is best for their community. Maybe, just maybe, people who want less traffic are not evil. Maybe, just maybe, people who want a neighborhood school are not evil. You may disagree with them, but to do so from atop a high horse is not admirable.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #1391
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Your attempts to label all people in DBII with a single broad stroke of NIMBY'ism, elitism, racism, anti-children, etc... IMHO simply shows a lack of critical thought.

You may not agree with their positions, but to reduce yourself to such divisive politicking and name-calling doesn't lead toward toward solutions, but rather continues to fester the problems. .
You are off the talking points completely. Review your leader's comments in the Tribune where he states "we are not a small group of whackos and nut jobs" that we are protrayed as, but rather a large group. The allegation has been that the brush painted with was too small, not too broad. Clearly there are good and worthy folks in DB Park II, people who aren't afraid to stand behind their public positions by name, as opposed to anonymous ads in the Journal, dark of night vandalism or groups like DPCG where only insiders are allowed to know who else is a member.

Judging from DPCG's website accounting of 8 members, it does appear any statement that they are representative of DP II residents would indeed be false.

Solutions require compromise. DPCG's whole purpose is to control the enclave they live in and prohibit outside influence within their boundaries, as shown in their public questions that would strip resources and great programs from a school and ban parents from being able to stop their cars to let their children off as a means of making the school less atrractive so that traffic within DB II would decrease. If DB II is incapable of co-existing with a school because of the design of the enclave you have two rational choices, change the enclave or get rid of the school. Attacking the school so enrollment goes down shouldn't really be on the table.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 08:43 PM   #1392
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[QUOTE=NearNorthGuy;18184216]I don't live in the area, I have no personal interest in this fight and I am not choosing a side.

I am just writing to disagree with critics who say things like "...Don't you have anything better to do?...."


Furthermore, I respect people who take the time to stand up for what they feel is best for their community. /[QUOTE]

I do too. My comment had to do with people tearing down opponents signs in the dark of night, not political participation.

Last edited by Prairie Avenue; February 4th, 2008 at 09:26 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 09:51 PM   #1393
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As far as I know, neither the LSC nor our achingly blonde alderman has not come forth with any sort of public acknowledgment of the relationship between the two. This is in fact a good question - can you publically confirm or deny the *full* extent of the relationship between Alderman Fioretti and LSC leadership?
I'll take this as a "no", John? You'll neither confirm nor deny the *full* extent of the relationship here?

Last edited by ChicagoGeek; February 6th, 2008 at 04:53 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #1394
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So why is it that Dearborn Park deserves an amenity that no other neighborhood in Chicago near a magnet school gets--to be traffic-free at the beginning and end of the school day? The magnet school system in Chicago is in great demand. Why does Dearborn Park deserve to eliminate one such school?
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Old February 5th, 2008, 12:00 AM   #1395
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..

Last edited by Loopy; May 19th, 2010 at 02:56 AM.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 01:46 AM   #1396
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You won't find me going very far to defend these particular shitstirrers in DPII, but let's at least acknowledge that there is a unique problem at South Loop Elementary. The neighbors didn't make the choice to put a school in between two cul-de-sacs--and then turn it into a magnet school that all the kids would be driven to. They didn't make the decision to make Federal and Plymouth narrow 28-foot cartways, yet the only way into and out of their garages. When the decision was made to have Roosevelt elevated over Plymouth, foreclosing any through street there, it was honestly thought that would aid the safety of kids walking from the neighborhood to the school.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 01:59 AM   #1397
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I'd be curious as to the ratio of in-boundary vs out of boundary attendees (now as opposed to old data). As we're south of the border we're having our daughter "test" for magnet placement. That said, I would guess that 90% of the families that I know (25-30 families) are within the boundaries and that includes a lot of magnet and non-magnet kids. I would attribute the boom in population to families like this that are tight-knit and want to stick together.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 03:19 PM   #1398
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I'd be curious as to the ratio of in-boundary vs out of boundary attendees (now as opposed to old data). As we're south of the border we're having our daughter "test" for magnet placement. That said, I would guess that 90% of the families that I know (25-30 families) are within the boundaries and that includes a lot of magnet and non-magnet kids. I would attribute the boom in population to families like this that are tight-knit and want to stick together.
Yep, that would be interesting data - I don't have it. Would also be illuminating to see how this ratio has been changing year-over-year... Perhaps our local LSC leadership representative on this board has this yearly data?

With ALL the dense construction going on within school boundaries, it stands to reason that the number of in-boundary students will increase DRAMATICALLY over the next few years. This will clearly compound the issues that currently exist.

As far as I've heard, there's no concrete plan by the school to adjust for these changes. I've heard rumours of various potential strategic alternatives, but nothing concrete. Again, perhaps our local LSC leadership representative on this board can illuminate their strategy and the data behind it?

Or, should we perhaps instead contact our local alderman for this info?
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Old February 5th, 2008, 03:45 PM   #1399
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Again, perhaps our local LSC leadership representative on this board can illuminate their strategy and the data behind it?
Oh and just to mention - If our local LSC leadership representative here can illuminate the school's reasonably detailed plan to deal with these impending demographic changes, it'll probably sway my vote on the referendum. And probably others as well. Just so you know.

Balls in your court.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 05:21 PM   #1400
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With ALL the dense construction going on within school boundaries, it stands to reason that the number of in-boundary students will increase DRAMATICALLY over the next few years. This will clearly compound the issues that currently exist....
Sure will. ALL the families I refer to are pre-k. I do know that this year the school got around twice as many Kindergarten kids than what they were expecting and had to scramble to add another class. One would think that they would see the growth trend and pro-actively address it.

Last edited by McCreative; February 5th, 2008 at 05:22 PM. Reason: marbles in mouth
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