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Old February 5th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #1401
Abner
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So the response to more school-age children in the neighborhood is to reduce capacity at the school? What the hell?

Sorry, not a single thing you people have said comes across as anything but mean-spirited, despite your insistence that you give a shit about what's best for the kids at the school.

Maybe the solution is to level one corner of Dearborn Park and erect a second elementary school, if the current one is so overburdened.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 07:09 PM   #1402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abner View Post
So the response to more school-age children in the neighborhood is to reduce capacity at the school? What the hell?
? Didn't say that. Nor do I want to reduce capacity as I'm a NO on the referendum. What we do need are more options. The CPS just needs to get their act together and realize that this is going to get a ton worse!
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Old February 5th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #1403
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Quote:
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So the response to more school-age children in the neighborhood is to reduce capacity at the school? What the hell?
No, apparently there's a miscommunication. Moving the magnet program somewhere else should be *one* of the options discussed, among the many that are out there. I suppose levelling Dearborn Park could be on the plate as well

Like most things in life, there are pros and cons to each of the various options - and there needs to be an open discussion regarding them. Its clearly an issue that raises a lot of hackles around here...

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Originally Posted by Abner View Post
Sorry, not a single thing you people have said comes across as anything but mean-spirited, despite your insistence that you give a shit about what's best for the kids at the school.
Sorry you feel that way. It's certainly not the intent.


Unfortunately, still waiting to hear our local LSC representative's illuminations regarding the earlier questions here about what the alternatives being discussed actually ARE. Given the impending growth, continuing the status-quo is untenable. IMHO.

Referendum voting closes in a few hours. I hope to get an answer before then.

Last edited by ChicagoGeek; February 5th, 2008 at 07:34 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old February 6th, 2008, 04:42 PM   #1404
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Huge project proposed over Metra railroad tracks near McCormick Place
By Robert Manor and Kathy Bergen | Tribune reporters
February 6, 2008


A developer who has helped redefine the South Loop is planning a vast new project near Lake Michigan south of downtown that would include thousands of residences, a large office tower and a major hotel near McCormick Place at a cost of $4 billion.

Jerry Fogelson, founder of Fogelson Properties, which built the Central Station complex of thousands of condominiums and townhomes south of the Loop, said his proposal would involve building over the Metra rail yard on the west side of Lake Shore Drive near Soldier Field.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,7695483.story
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:09 PM   #1405
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You won't find me going very far to defend these particular shitstirrers in DPII, but let's at least acknowledge that there is a unique problem at South Loop Elementary. The neighbors didn't make the choice to put a school in between two cul-de-sacs--and then turn it into a magnet school that all the kids would be driven to. They didn't make the decision to make Federal and Plymouth narrow 28-foot cartways, yet the only way into and out of their garages. When the decision was made to have Roosevelt elevated over Plymouth, foreclosing any through street there, it was honestly thought that would aid the safety of kids walking from the neighborhood to the school.

Happy to extend and respond to most of the rational thought processors here, although I will ignore cooments from one who seeks to out yet doesn't proclaim his own identity.
As to population demographics, at school changeover (regional gifted start-up in kindergarten and first grade and magnet fine arts) in the first year only 5% of students were in boundary and 95% were out of boundary. No attack on the programs then nor any traffic attack. This year approximately 65% are in boundary and 35% are out of boundary. What is apparently lost on the vote yes residents is that the sea change in the school only took place by parents devoting huge chuunks of their time and money to make it so, and those same parents now feel under attack as is their "baby" because of traffic issues?

The Regional Gifted center is a single classroom in each grade, currently kindergarten through 6th. As each grade level moves up the school adds a year. Currently the 7th and 8th graders are largely grandfathered in students out of boundaries, although the school has had transfers in from the neighborhood over time. So as those classes graduate the % of in boundary for the neighbrhood will increase but the two added gifted will probably offset.

The school by law has to admit into the neighborhood program any student living within the boundaries that applies. Thus, the Magnet lottery spots which in years where neighborhood applications were low were more plentiful than now when the school has to be prepared for local enrollment.

Here is the big picture that cannot be denied. The school was a failing school forever really, a school that no parent with a choice would send their child to. The local neighbors shunned the school (no value judgment here just the facts) wanting a better option (understandably.) In order to drive neighborhood enrollment CPS added the gifted (selective) classrooms one year at a time and opened up the magnet option hoping to fill what would be untaken neighborhood slots with lottery students from other areas of the city in early years -- families interested in education -- while the school got to its feet and until neighborhood families would trust the school as enough of an option to start sending their children there. That sea change has occured -- again not because of anything the fence hating traffic complainers did, but because of efforts and time and treasure of parents now scowled at and written about in terms of their driving BMWs.

When test scores finally got past a critical point and the school became an option it got over the hump and the neighborhood applications began coming in. With the schools rise in every metric it also saw more competition for its non neighborhood slots, increasing aplications and of course being able to select higher achieving students in the gifted center. Success breeds success.

Right now the percentage of students attending from nearby the school is undoutbedly higher than in its history since it used to be almost entirely made up of students who are now outside thye boundaries. Right now enrollment is lower than in years before the changeover as well. So the school is not overcrowded. And the school is a great attraction real estate wise -- for the first time buyers are asking realtors is this unit in the school boundaries.

But these 2 public questions -- submitted to only DB Park II residents and which passed by very slim margins which is a great result for the school in reality -- at their base sought to diminish enrollment and were promoted as reducing traffic and congestion and having DP II take back control of the school.

There are fair questions about the future of the school if population trends continue and if an when the school becomes overpopulated (it currently has at least 100 less students than before the changes so it's not there yet). Those are issues that are being raised in the proper arenas every day by school and political leadership. But face facts please, CPS is not a forward leaning organization, it like every tax based entity today is in crisis management. And it has a lot of schools and issues to handle in a crisis mode every day as opposed to satisfying the what ifs about the future of dearborn park II and their traffic complaints.

There are 29 schools in the ward. If anyone with an activist or proper political perspective would go to each one South Loop and Jones would be the last of the 29 that needs or deserves special political help or attention, from a perspective of devoting resources to the betterment of student opportunity, safety and achievement.

For Dearborn Park II residents to demand that their every issue be front page and to have the attention and focus of every politican and CPS administrator is so laughable from a real needs test . . . . well come on, this message board is so familiar with the inconvenience of the few somehow being elevated to override the betterment of the whole that I am always shocked to see excuses being made here.

Bottom line what you have here is what NIMBYism is all about. This is a major metropolitan area. Ever been stuck in cab traffic in NY? I mean really, "I can't go north on Plymouth from 13th street to my alley entryway because of that damn South Loop traffic from 8:45 to 9:10 on school days so shut down the school." Really?

Last edited by Prairie Avenue; February 6th, 2008 at 06:14 PM.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 08:23 PM   #1406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creil View Post
Huge project proposed over Metra railroad tracks near McCormick Place
By Robert Manor and Kathy Bergen | Tribune reporters
February 6, 2008


A developer who has helped redefine the South Loop is planning a vast new project near Lake Michigan south of downtown that would include thousands of residences, a large office tower and a major hotel near McCormick Place at a cost of $4 billion.

Jerry Fogelson, founder of Fogelson Properties, which built the Central Station complex of thousands of condominiums and townhomes south of the Loop, said his proposal would involve building over the Metra rail yard on the west side of Lake Shore Drive near Soldier Field.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,7695483.story

wow!
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Old February 6th, 2008, 11:50 PM   #1407
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About that project...
"Tentative plans for the more than 23-acre development, to be named Gateway, include a monorail and an 18th Street ramp and street connecting Lake Shore Drive with Michigan Avenue. A pedway is also planned for Lake Shore Drive."

What! I wonder what that would be used for? But it would be freaking sweet.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 12:05 AM   #1408
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No, it'd just be weird. Rather than investing MILLIONS in a monorail system, vehicles, tracks, and stations, just purchase a few electric cars and then "borrow" a single track from Metra to run a shuttle service.

Or, even cheaper, run a bus shuttle on the McCormick Place road.

A monorail is a huge waste of money for these developers. If the city has any say as to how the developers use their discretionary funding, they ought to insist on retail spaces and high-quality park land.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 01:20 AM   #1409
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
No, it'd just be weird. Rather than investing MILLIONS in a monorail system, vehicles, tracks, and stations, just purchase a few electric cars and then "borrow" a single track from Metra to run a shuttle service.

Or, even cheaper, run a bus shuttle on the McCormick Place road.

A monorail is a huge waste of money for these developers. If the city has any say as to how the developers use their discretionary funding, they ought to insist on retail spaces and high-quality park land.
Buses are so ******* boaring. If the developer is willing to spend the money on these improvements that will benifit many, LET HIM!!!
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Old February 7th, 2008, 01:48 AM   #1410
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I have always thought it would be great to run a monorail from McCormick to "downtown." With the monorail discussed at Navy Pier, perhaps we could see a new form of public transportation that is easier on the eye and tourist-friendly for the tourists and conventioneers.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 01:50 AM   #1411
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail! ...
What'd I say?
Monorail!
What's it called?
Monorail!
That's right! Monorail!
I hear those things are awfully loud...
It glides as softly as a cloud.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
What about us brain-dead slobs?
You'll all be given cushy jobs.
Were you sent here by the devil?
No, good sir, I'm on the level.
The ring came off my pudding can.
Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
Monorail!
What's it called?
Monorail!
Once again...
Monorail!
But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Mono... D'oh
!
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Old February 7th, 2008, 01:54 AM   #1412
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are there any posters here who live in DPII, just curious?
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Old February 7th, 2008, 03:01 AM   #1413
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are there any posters here who live in DPII, just curious?
Yep, I do. Though sometimes I'm almost afraid to admit it around here

<covering my ears for the semi-automatic "NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY" Jacoby attack>


yeah. Anyway, what's up?
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Old February 7th, 2008, 05:54 AM   #1414
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Buses are so ******* boaring. If the developer is willing to spend the money on these improvements that will benifit many, LET HIM!!!
I would like to see a rail system used that can be integrated into the city-wide system. This is a perfect opportunity to promote a south lakefront CTA line from McCormick to UC and further south.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 02:27 PM   #1415
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Why would Forest City (or anyone) announce such a massive development during these troubling economic times? I can't help but think that in 2008, this project is not about towers in the sky...but pie in the sky.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #1416
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I would like to see a rail system used that can be integrated into the city-wide system. This is a perfect opportunity to promote a south lakefront CTA line from McCormick to UC and further south.
I can imagine that this will be completely separate and similar to the Vegas caisno monrails. I also think it will probalby be free for hotel patrons to rail back and forth to McCormick Place. I think the developer is also throwing this out there for its benefits for the Olympics, but I imageine they are looking for lots of TIF funds. I don't think the developer is offering to construct a new form of public transportation, although I think it would be great to extend to Millenium Park and Navy Pier (and ultimately Lincoln Park Zoo / North Avenue Beach) as a free monorail for tourists. Much of the original upfront costs would be in place by the original stretches (14th to 22nd by developer, Navy Pier area by McPier). Monorails are extremely expensive and I don't see them running a line to UofC (but I suppose if they extend it South to the Olympic Village, it would only be a few more miles). UofC always has the green line not too far.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #1417
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I can imagine that this will be completely separate and similar to the Vegas caisno monrails. I also think it will probalby be free for hotel patrons to rail back and forth to McCormick Place. I think the developer is also throwing this out there for its benefits for the Olympics, but I imageine they are looking for lots of TIF funds. I don't think the developer is offering to construct a new form of public transportation, although I think it would be great to extend to Millenium Park and Navy Pier (and ultimately Lincoln Park Zoo / North Avenue Beach) as a free monorail for tourists. Much of the original upfront costs would be in place by the original stretches (14th to 22nd by developer, Navy Pier area by McPier). Monorails are extremely expensive and I don't see them running a line to UofC (but I suppose if they extend it South to the Olympic Village, it would only be a few more miles). UofC always has the green line not too far.
I've never seen the point of a monorail line in Chicago. If it's from this property to McCormick then OK, but a full line on the lakefront just doesn't make sense. The cost alone, as you pointed out, is prohibitive. Plus, do we want an elevated transit line running through Grant Park? If there are any remote ideas about eventually making this more then just a small hotel connector line, then it should not be in monorail form.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #1418
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Chicago2020, let me compliment you on those "Monorail" lyrics (no sarcasm). They cracked me up!
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Old February 7th, 2008, 08:45 PM   #1419
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Why would Forest City (or anyone) announce such a massive development during these troubling economic times? I can't help but think that in 2008, this project is not about towers in the sky...but pie in the sky.
NOT EVERYONE IS SUFFERING MASSIVE LOSES
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Old February 7th, 2008, 09:22 PM   #1420
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Yep, I do. Though sometimes I'm almost afraid to admit it around here

<covering my ears for the semi-automatic "NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY" Jacoby attack>


yeah. Anyway, what's up?
how long have you lived there? (trust me, no motives here, just wondering)

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NOT EVERYONE IS SUFFERING MASSIVE LOSES
I pretty sure he didn't say that. He said we are in troubling economic times, which is 100% true. If its not troubling, its definitely uncertain.
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