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Old February 5th, 2017, 04:00 PM   #2001
narkelion
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There will be a lot of parking spaces, of course.

But they're building and designing a branch of the metro L10 that will bring people there.

And if I remember correctly they are planning to bring there a regional railway and a line of the Circumvesuviana too.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 04:07 PM   #2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post

But they're building and designing a branch of the metro L10 that will bring people there.
English language Wikipedia says that this project has been abandoned due to luck of funding. Is that wrong? If so how advanced is the project?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_10_(Naples_Metro)
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Old February 5th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #2003
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The page hasn't been updated, I guess. They started talking about L10 again in November due to the future opening of Afragola.

I'm afraid I'm not finding anything in english, though.

http://www.napolitoday.it/cronaca/li...la-lavori.html
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Old February 5th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #2004
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Napoli Afragola is part of a larger project encompassing a direct link between the higher speed line Salerno-Napoli ("linea a monte del Vesuvio" officially) and the Roma-Napoli line, a direct link between the old coastal line and that higher speed line to Salerno, and extra grade separation on the approach to Napoli Centrale. The station is one of the last components of the whole project.

It will speed up services like Roma-Reggio Calabria by up to 25 min without dropping the stop at Napoli metro area.
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Old February 6th, 2017, 12:06 AM   #2005
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They talk about 'May 2017' for opening.
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Old February 6th, 2017, 12:08 AM   #2006
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Makes sense. On the 11th of June the summer timetable starts. I reckon they'll need at least 1 month for the official and unofficial tests and approvals.
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Old February 6th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
English language Wikipedia says that this project has been abandoned due to luck of funding. Is that wrong? If so how advanced is the project?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_10_(Naples_Metro)
The project was resumed. It was already approved a loan of €300 million for the first part of the new subway line that will link the Napoli-Afragola station and subway Line 1.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 05:53 PM   #2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Napoli Afragola is part of a larger project encompassing a direct link between the higher speed line Salerno-Napoli ("linea a monte del Vesuvio" officially) and the Roma-Napoli line, a direct link between the old coastal line and that higher speed line to Salerno, and extra grade separation on the approach to Napoli Centrale. The station is one of the last components of the whole project.

It will speed up services like Roma-Reggio Calabria by up to 25 min without dropping the stop at Napoli metro area.
I get that you'd have to get around Napoli Centrale in order to go from Rome to Reggio at high speed. But will there still be high speed services doing Milano Centrale to Napoli Centrale (for example)? Or is Centrale going to be a stop for lower speed services?
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Old February 9th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #2009
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I get that you'd have to get around Napoli Centrale in order to go from Rome to Reggio at high speed. But will there still be high speed services doing Milano Centrale to Napoli Centrale (for example)? Or is Centrale going to be a stop for lower speed services?
Most (I guess > 75% or so) high-speed services from the North and Italo services will still end/start at Napoli Centrale. There is not enough demand to send all services to Salerno.

Most fast services between Roma Termini and points south of Napoli will bypass Napoli Cle, I guess.

There will be some (not many) fast services Salerno - Napoli Afragola - Roma Tiburtina - Firenze Campo di Marte - Bologna Cle. - Milano Porta Garibaldi - Torino Porta Susa, I guess, when all building works in Firenze also end.

Matter of fact is that the position of major stations in Milano (Centrale), Firenze (SM Novella), Roma (Termini), Napoli (Centrale) are all bad for through services, requiring trains to reverse and slog around congested approaches. Terminus stations are easy to navigate and they make for impressive halls and what else, but they penalize through service a lot.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 08:18 PM   #2010
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Is there a city considering an elegant (but expensive) solution like Antwerp did?
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Old February 9th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #2011
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Is there a city considering an elegant (but expensive) solution like Antwerp did?
Well, they are building a new 7km high-speed line tunnel, with a station, in Firenze. The project is moving very slowly and problems with Mafia infiltration and subsequent prosecution have rescinded some of the contracts.

Making Milano Centrale into a through station would be a € 12+ bn. project, requiring extensive works as it interferes with subway and the Passante tunnels, among other things. There is also no way rail traffic could cope with being disrupted while the approach would be lowered (Milano C.le platforms are some 8m above street level, and a perpendicular subway line crosses in front of the station). The right thing to do (now a lost opportunity) would have been to massively expand Milano Porta Garibaldi and to have built the Passante with 4 extra through tracks, in addition to the ones already there serving the S system.

Napoli Centrale is fundamentally affected by geography. No space for a through link from the existing newer high(er) speed lines (unless one wanted to tunnel under the Mt Vesuvio , or make a tight U-shaped loop with a new through station rotated 90-degree - like in Koln, Germany, but much harder and underground)

Excavating west of Roma Termini would be the largest archaeological project ever.
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Last edited by Suburbanist; February 9th, 2017 at 10:12 PM.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 10:32 PM   #2012
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Milano has Lambrate, Firenze will have Belfiore, Roma has Tiburtina, what is the problem?
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Old February 10th, 2017, 12:45 AM   #2013
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The uselessness of those stations compared to the real mobility attraction nodes.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 03:03 AM   #2014
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All mentioned cities still have a lot of services to the main stations.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #2015
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Exactly.

And the main station remain as of today and will remain tomorrow the most attractive station in the city.

Milan is probably a good exception, since the combo Rogoredo+Garibaldi iss good enough that Centrale may be skipped for many trains.

They tried in Rome to divert all FrecciaRossa and FrecciaArgento from Termini to Tiburtina to make them way faster on the way to/from Napoli, jumping all the stretch Tiburtina - Termini and Termini - Tiburtina, but it failed miserably.
Today only 2 trains/day jump Termini.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #2016
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So I assume that the construction of these new stations like Afragola will come with easy cross-platform transfers into the city and stuff? That would be perfectly fine given the distances and the time saved.

If you did that in a small country like Holland, high speed rail would lose its purpose because the distances are too short. But if you can take a high speed train from Milano Garibaldi to Napoli Afragola + an easy transfer to Napoli Centrale... That would be fine. It would still be much faster than a regular IC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Well, they are building a new 7km high-speed line tunnel, with a station, in Firenze. The project is moving very slowly and problems with Mafia infiltration and subsequent prosecution have rescinded some of the contracts.

Making Milano Centrale into a through station would be a € 12+ bn. project, requiring extensive works as it interferes with subway and the Passante tunnels, among other things. There is also no way rail traffic could cope with being disrupted while the approach would be lowered (Milano C.le platforms are some 8m above street level, and a perpendicular subway line crosses in front of the station). The right thing to do (now a lost opportunity) would have been to massively expand Milano Porta Garibaldi and to have built the Passante with 4 extra through tracks, in addition to the ones already there serving the S system.

Napoli Centrale is fundamentally affected by geography. No space for a through link from the existing newer high(er) speed lines (unless one wanted to tunnel under the Mt Vesuvio , or make a tight U-shaped loop with a new through station rotated 90-degree - like in Koln, Germany, but much harder and underground)

Excavating west of Roma Termini would be the largest archaeological project ever.
Thanks! Very interesting!

Digging under Vesuvius lol I remember when I first moved there I was astounded to see they had any subway tunnels at all; I figured there were (old) lava chambers and stuff all over the place.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 01:40 PM   #2017
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The purpose of Afragola is to give a HSR service to the area north of Naples AND at the same time cut the time of travel from Rome to Calabria.

Let's understand.

There will be at least 2 kind of services:

Milan-Bologna-Florence-Rome-Naples: these will end up in Napoli Centrale, no doubt. BUt some will probably also stop at Afragola. For people leaving in the northern part of the very large Naples metropolitan area it is disadvantageous to go to Napoli Centrale to go to Milan. Boarding in Afragola would cut the real time of the trip by at least 40 minutes, in a door-to-door scenario. And this for million people, a city bigger than Florence or BOlogna

Then there will be the services (Milan)-Rome-Reggio Calabria.

In this case the stop at Afragola will allow to cut 20-30 minutes travel time for the trains going south. Since most traffic from Calabria is to Rome (and not to Naples) this is in general very advantageous. For the few that will want to go to Naples proper, there will be other services to get to centrale.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 04:35 PM   #2018
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ITALY | High Speed Rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Exactly.

And the main station remain as of today and will remain tomorrow the most attractive station in the city.

Milan is probably a good exception, since the combo Rogoredo+Garibaldi iss good enough that Centrale may be skipped for many trains.

They tried in Rome to divert all FrecciaRossa and FrecciaArgento from Termini to Tiburtina to make them way faster on the way to/from Napoli, jumping all the stretch Tiburtina - Termini and Termini - Tiburtina, but it failed miserably.
Today only 2 trains/day jump Termini.


Any idea why Tiburtina failed? What's the because it was outside the city center?
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Old February 10th, 2017, 04:37 PM   #2019
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Any idea why Tiburtina failed? What's the because it was outside the city center?
Yes.

Outside of the city center and on the other side of the city's business district of EUR, and not vvery well connected to them both (line B, Rebibbia Branch has a frequency of 5-10min).
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Old February 10th, 2017, 04:44 PM   #2020
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Yes.

Outside of the city center and on the other side of the city's business district of EUR, and not vvery well connected to them both (line B, Rebibbia Branch has a frequency of 5-10min).


Ah so if they were to build a secondary business district connect an other metro line and/or Give more frequent headways it might become feasible.
But I doubt Rome has the money for this.
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