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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:10 PM   #2041
Eddard Stark
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Rome-Milan used to be a 3 mln passengers route and is now bowering just above 1 mln
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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:10 PM   #2042
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Without hsr probably it would be a 4 mln now
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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:45 PM   #2043
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I have the feeling italians prefer to use the plane to travel in the country?
A feeling based on what? High speed trains are crushing the flights between Milan and Rome, go figure if they can't win hands down on shorter routes like Torino-Milano, or Milano-Bologna.
Bla-bla car and Flixbus are the only competitors of bullet trains for low budget travellers.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:50 PM   #2044
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And how is the high speed italian network in term of numbers passengers. Is it affordable to take a high speed train from Napoli to Milan?

I have the feeling italians prefer to use the plane to travel in the country?
It is rather cheap if you can plan a little in advance.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 09:21 PM   #2045
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Two years ago it was the cheapest HSR in Europe when buying tickets in advance. We only payed 20 euros to go from Rome to Naples. Not bad at all for ca 220 km trip.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 10:19 PM   #2046
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Two years ago I paid 25 euros to go from Amsterdam to Paris on Thalys. That's over 400 km.

Nowadays you can buy those tickets for 35 euros.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 10:49 PM   #2047
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I checked and the prices in Italy are still about the same. I'm too used to Swiss prices... Here a travel of similar distance costs ca 30 euros (for those with a half fare card) and takes three times longer.

Anyway cheapest or not prices in Italy are definitely reasonable. Of course one could get from Rome to Napoli for less than 20 euros, but then you'd sacrifice a lot of time.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 01:29 AM   #2048
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Two years ago I paid 25 euros to go from Amsterdam to Paris on Thalys. That's over 400 km.

Nowadays you can buy those tickets for 35 euros.
I paid 19€ Lille-Rotterdam
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Old March 1st, 2017, 08:57 AM   #2049
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And how is the high speed italian network in term of numbers passengers. Is it affordable to take a high speed train from Napoli to Milan?

I have the feeling italians prefer to use the plane to travel in the country?

I'm Italian and I have the opposite feeling ...
I live near Naples and I use the High Speed Rail (Frecciarossa or Italo) when I can. If you buy tickets few months in advance, a trip between Naples and Rome takes 1 hour and 10 minutes and costs € 19 with Frecciarossa or even € 16 using Italo. I also use regional trains or intercity trains to travel, but they're not as good as the HSR. Intercity costs a little less and it also takes 10min. less from Aversa, which is 15 to 30 minutes by train from Naples Central. "Regionale" is very cheap (10 € even if you buy tickets few minutes before departure) but it takes at least 2 hours and 30min from Aversa or 2h and 45 minutes from Naples.
A lot of people use the HSR, especially from Rome to Milan (a No Stop train takes 2h. And 50 min. and it takes you from city center to city center).
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Old March 1st, 2017, 10:19 AM   #2050
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you say napoli-roma because it's short but Napoli-Milan HSR is not your first choice no?
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Old March 1st, 2017, 11:14 AM   #2051
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It was for me when I lived in Naples, but then I'm a train enthusiast.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 03:33 PM   #2052
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you say napoli-roma because it's short but Napoli-Milan HSR is not your first choice no?
Few times I've been in Milan but almost all the times I've used Italo or Frecciarossa. Yes, it takes 4 hours but it's still more comfortable than driving for 7 hours( and more) or go to the airport by car at least 1h and 30min before departure, 1h flying and then at least another hour to go to the city center. Using trains I just need 5minutes of driving to the station, then go directly to Rome with Intercity or to Naples with a regional train and then use the HSR to go to Milan. I know that it depends also from where you live, but if you are well connected to the railway system it's very easy to use trains to go to work/ study, etc.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 08:27 PM   #2053
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I paid 19€ Lille-Rotterdam
I paid 9 euros for Amsterdam-Lille when they just started the service... but that was not a regular rate
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Old March 1st, 2017, 10:10 PM   #2054
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9€?? Insane
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 02:21 AM   #2055
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Two years ago Trenitalia put some 9 Euro promotional fares on some Frecciarosssa seats as well. To fight Italo before the shinny new ETR 1000 came around.
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 10:24 AM   #2056
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In Italia to have this competition between freccia and Italo is good for customers but economically inefficient because investments will never profitables
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:09 AM   #2057
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Says who?
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:11 AM   #2058
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In fact we have more investments than with a monopolist . Trenitalia will have never served the Adriatic line with hsr service (partially hsr) if not for italo, for example
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:27 AM   #2059
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Trenitalia: infamous V250 trains return to service on Lecce – Rome – Bari

La Gazzetta del Mezzogiorno reports: Starting next June, Trenitalia wants to introduce the sidelined V250 trainsets between Lecce, Rome and Bari. Reportedly, Trenitalia has to take-over the V250s from Hitachi Rail Italy (formerly known as AnsaldoBreda) due to “industry-political reasons” and has now selected the line where they will be operated.

Biggest issue however is that the V250s will replace ETR 485 trains with tilting technology. True, both types of trains have a topspeed of 250 km/h, but the V250s can only reach their maximum speed on the highspeed line section of the route. The ETR 485s are faster (up to 25 km/u) on the more curvy, classic lines. So, introducing the V250s means the journey times will increase (now it is 4 hours and 12 minutes). Trenitalia wants to solve this issue to call less frequent, skipping intermediate stops on the route. The trains will no longer halt at Foggia for example, you can imagine that the local politicians are furious…

more at: link
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Old March 2nd, 2017, 11:40 AM   #2060
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Reportedly, Trenitalia has to take-over the V250s from Hitachi Rail Italy (formerly known as AnsaldoBreda) due to “industry-political reasons” and has now selected the line where they will be operated.
Not to put too fine a point on it; but this is a reasonable example of why the Italian economy isn't performing as well as it could.

Presumably some politician decided that AnsaldoBreda shouldn't take the fall for building a dismal train and somehow managed to hook Trenitalia into acquiring them.

So now Trenitalia spends money on useless trains that are gonna be like a ball and chain around their ankle.

Meanwhile, the passengers that are gonna have to travel on these things see their journey times increase and/or connectivity to some places fall.

Well done...
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