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Old October 8th, 2009, 02:13 AM   #481
Federicoft
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Yes, that's true. This will be hopefully solved with the AGV and the next generation Trenitalia HS trainset.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 02:19 AM   #482
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I should say too (I just checked again the numbers) that the ETR500 tested in France was an old set only capable of 6.4MW... It's only the newest motor cars that are able to develop 8.8MW. The train was way underpowered for operations on the LGV1.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 02:12 PM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbman View Post
No, that's a fact. See LUCAFUSAR numbers. They are a bit underpowered compared to other HST.
Ok, the train is underpowered... this is a fact! But we don't know if the difference is AS MUCH AS seen in the video...
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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbman View Post
No, that's a fact. See LUCAFUSAR numbers. They are a bit underpowered compared to other HST.
Consider that two TGVs coupled together (2x200m sets) have a maximum output from 2x6.450>12.900 kw to 2x9.280>18.560 kw...the ETR500 can't be coupled because it's too long (354 m the 2+12 carriages version). In fact, to increase acceleration, there are also three ETR500 sets with 2 locos and 8 carriages (with the same output) which are used on the Torino/Novara line.

Last edited by LUCAFUSAR; October 8th, 2009 at 04:07 PM.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:03 PM   #485
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I think we don't have enough information to establish if the ETR acceleration is too low...

we don't know if the tunnel was in plane... Maybe the train was going slightly uphill!
But the most important thing is that we don't know if the driver was accelerating as fast as possible.
You're not totally wrong, but the TGV's powertoweight ratio is greater than the ETR500's one. So, the TGV is capable of a greater acceleration than the ETR500.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:07 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
Yes, that's true. This will be hopefully solved with the AGV and the next generation Trenitalia HS trainset.
The new NTV's AGV/11 will have 10.500 kw and a weight around 400 t (200 m trainset, 11 carriages).

Last edited by LUCAFUSAR; October 9th, 2009 at 04:39 PM.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:25 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCAFUSAR View Post
You're not totally wrong, but the TGV's powertoweight ratio is greater than the ETR500's one. So, the TGV is capable of a greater acceleration than the ETR500.
I know it... this is a fact, but is the ETR really so much underpowered as we see in the video or are there some more reasons contributing to give us that impression? Maybe the driver wasn't fully accelerating or the track was not perfectly plane...
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Old October 8th, 2009, 05:32 PM   #488
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Maybe...
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Old October 8th, 2009, 08:10 PM   #489
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Maybe, we might note too that this video is a a video from a recent world record. The fastest train in a tunnel.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 08:56 PM   #490
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Nope. The world's fastest train in a tunnel is the experimental ICE V trainset, which setted this record in 1988, reaching the speed of 404 kph in a tunnel.
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Old October 9th, 2009, 08:46 AM   #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCAFUSAR View Post
Nope. The world's fastest train in a tunnel is the experimental ICE V trainset, which setted this record in 1988, reaching the speed of 404 kph in a tunnel.
NOPE, the world's fastest train in a tunnel is the Japanese MLX01, which ran 581km/h in 2003.
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Old October 9th, 2009, 03:15 PM   #492
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The world's fastest train on rails...except maglevs.
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Old October 9th, 2009, 04:03 PM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCAFUSAR View Post
The TGV has from 6.450 to 9.300 Kw and weights from 415 t to 484 t (fully loaded, except the Eurostars). The ETR500 has 8.800 kw and weights 616 t empty.
To add, power to weight ratios are;

First TGVs (Sud-Est) - 16.7kW/ton
ETR 500 - 14.72kW/ton
Eurostar (London-Paris) - 15.00kW

all similar, and by comparison;

TGV Duplex - 24.23kW/ton
Series 500 Japan - 28.9kW/ton
ICE 3 - 19.5kW/ton
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Old October 9th, 2009, 04:09 PM   #494
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great numbers, but what will the AGV have?
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Old October 9th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
great numbers, but what will the AGV have?
Its tought to be around 22 kW/t but it might vary a bit following the configuration choosed by the operator.
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Old October 9th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #496
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well, it will still beat the ice3, although i'm not sure of the velaro (or is it the same as the ice3?)


the thing that surprises me the most, is that the Velaro is already a decade (!) old, and it doesnt seem like siemens is gonna take the lead again soon
the Velaro has always been my favourite but now its gonna be the AGV
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Old October 9th, 2009, 04:41 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCAFUSAR View Post
The new NTV's AGV/11 will have 10.500 kw and a weight around 400 t (200 m trainset, 11 carriages).
And a powertoweight ratio of 22.6 Kw/ton, as you can see here:

http://www.ntvspa.it/ntvupload/utils...tecnicaAGV.pdf
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Old October 9th, 2009, 04:50 PM   #498
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The Velaro is a slightly newer version of the IC3. The last avatar of the familly is the Velaro D that will equiped the DB around 2010. Siemens doesn't really produce a new train but updates a concept. That was what was done with the TGVs.

The Velaro is bit more powerfull than a ICE3. The Velaro E has a 8800kW output and develop 20.7kW/t
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Old October 9th, 2009, 05:06 PM   #499
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I get that, but there are plenty of areas where they could improve: wind resistance, maybe a duplex?
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Old October 26th, 2009, 08:05 PM   #500
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The Velaro D will be equipped in 2010 for CRH. It'll be 400.4 m long and carry 1,060 passengers in 16 carriages. It'll have an output of 18.4 Mw to run at 380 kph.
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