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Old December 2nd, 2010, 04:57 PM   #821
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Quote:
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20% o 100% non cambia niente...
20 or 100% changes A LOT under any management, strategic or financial perspective lol
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 06:49 PM   #822
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Why don't you stop trolling and do something useful with your time?
Mr Marie-Joseph-Paul, I presume?
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 10:19 PM   #823
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Mr Marie-Joseph-Paul, I presume?
Mr or Miss Joseph1951 aka Marie-Joseph-Paul aka coccodrillo aka Suburbanist, I presume?
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 10:33 PM   #824
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i think the AGVs will help a lot with regards to the timetable (acceleration)
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 12:21 AM   #825
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http://www.zefiro.bombardier.com/desktop/en/home/
Zefiro, What else?
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 12:32 AM   #826
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Zefiro 380
Entered service 2012[3]
Formation 8 or 16 car[7]
Capacity 664 seats (max) 8 car[7]
1,336 seats (max) 16 car[7]
Specifications
Car body construction Aluminium carbody, wide profile[7]
Train length 215 m (8 car) 415 m (16 car)[7]
Width 3.4 m[citation needed]
Maximum speed 380 km/h[7]
Weight 934 t[7]
Acceleration > 0.48 m/s²[7]
Power output 20 MW (16 car @380 km/h)[7]
10 MW (8 car @380 km/h)[17]
Bogies "FLEXX speed" with 2.7 m wheelbase[7]
Multiple working Possible for two 8-car trainsets, not possible for 16-car trainset[7]

In September 2009, Bombardier announced an order for 80 Zefiro 380 very high speed trains by the Chinese Ministry of Railways (MOR) to be produced at Bombardier's joint venture Sifang (Qingdao) Transportation Ltd. The order of twenty 16 car sets and sixty 8 car sets was estimated to be worth 27.4 billion RMB (approx 2.7€ billion or $4 billion). The value of Bombardier's share is estimated at 1.3€ billion. [18][19]

Under China railways use these trains have been given designations CRH1C (8 car set) and CRH1D (16 car set).[12] and laterly been given designations CRH380C (8 car set) & CRH380C-L (16 car set).

A 16 car set has ~20 MW power, with 50% bogies (FLEXX type with 2.7 m wheelbase) motorized, a starting acceleration of >0.48 m·s−2, with a weight of 948 t, and an axle load of ~17 t.[7] Two 8 car sets can work in multiple.[7]


Zefiro V300
A variant the V300 Zefiro was offered by Bombardier in association with AnsaldoBreda to Trenitalia as part of a bid for 50 new high speed trainsets in 2010.[14] Trenitalia selected this bid as the winner on 5 August 2010.[15] These will enter service in 2013 and will be designated ETR1000.[16]

Zefiro 300
Formation up to 16car[7]
Capacity 600 seats (8 car)[7]
1,200 seats (16 car)[7]
Specifications
Car body construction Aluminium carbody, UIC profile[7]
Train length 202 m (8 car train), 402 m (16 car train)[7]
Width 2.9 m[citation needed]
Maximum speed 300 to 360 km/h[7]
Acceleration > 0.6 m/s²[7]
Power output 8.8 MW (8 car train @300 km/h)[7]
Bogies "FLEXX speed", 2.85 m wheelbase[7]
Multiple working Possible for two 8-car trainsets, not possible for 16-car trainset[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Zefiro
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 10:37 AM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coccorico View Post
Mr or Miss Joseph1951 aka Marie-Joseph-Paul aka coccodrillo aka Suburbanist, I presume?
Recently banned Satrapo I presume? And no, the forumers above are not the same person.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 04:18 PM   #828
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 06:46 PM   #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
Recently banned Satrapo I presume? And no, the forumers above are not the same person.
Marie Joseph Paul, Satrapo and coccorico were certainly the same person.

PS please, don't compare me to a car-dependent person like Suburbanist
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 07:21 PM   #830
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Soon there will be NTV trains on the Turin-Milan, moreover construction (very heavy construction) is still ongoing and do not allow very fast connections yet.

The line will be used in the future quite heavily I am sure, the fact that it is not used perfectly now for several reasons does not mean that it was useless. It's an infrastructure for the next century, not the first 2 years of service.

Beside that one ALL OTHER HSL are used quite heavily, with dozens trains per day on each direction. I really do not understand Coccodrillo comment. How many TGV run on the LYON-Marseille route? surely is not more than Milan-Bologna, Bologna-Firenze, Firenze-Roma and Roma-Napoli (all other HSL in Italy)
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 07:35 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
How many TGV run on the LYON-Marseille route?
Paris-Lyon: 240 (between Paris and the branch to Dijon, but it's 30 years old)
Lyon-Marseille: 140 (between Lyon and Valence)
Bologna-Florence: 70 (but not so bad for being a new line, comparable to the Paris-Lyon just after the opening)
Milan-Bologna: less than 70
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Old December 4th, 2010, 08:50 PM   #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Paris-Lyon: 240 (between Paris and the branch to Dijon, but it's 30 years old)
Lyon-Marseille: 140 (between Lyon and Valence)
Bologna-Florence: 70 (but not so bad for being a new line, comparable to the Paris-Lyon just after the opening)
Milan-Bologna: less than 70
In Bologna-Florence line there are more than 70, I guess you did not include the trains to Verona and Venezia and the no-stop trains between Milan and Rome. I counted 70 trains that stop, plus there shall be other 50 at least that do not. Total at least 120

Milan-Bologna: exactly 70 trains a day

I tried to countr these 140 trains between Lyon and Marseille. Where is your source? there are more or less 1 train/h between paris and marseille and much less between lyon and marseille

All our figures of course are going to increase after NTV arrives, there shall be an increase of 50% on all major routes.

Last edited by Eddard Stark; December 4th, 2010 at 08:58 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #833
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I'm sorry, I have forgotten to count the no-stop trains (I checked the timetable Bologna-Florence, that includes trains from Verona and Venice). With these we have around 100 trains, which is good.

My source for France is http://membres.multimania.fr/cartesferro/index_fr.html
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Old December 4th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I'm sorry, I have forgotten to count the no-stop trains (I checked the timetable Bologna-Florence, that includes trains from Verona and Venice). With these we have around 100 trains, which is good.

My source for France is http://membres.multimania.fr/cartesferro/index_fr.html
if I am not wrong there are also some trains between florence and rome which go to Venice/Verona and do not stop in Florence

The total shall be close to 120 as I said

I counted trains on the SNCF website, it is always hard considering all possible option but honestly I cannot see how they can be more than 70-100 on the Marseille-Lyon line
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Old December 4th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #835
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What trains have you searched for on SNCF website? Also the ones not terminating in Paris?
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Old December 5th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
if I am not wrong there are also some trains between florence and rome which go to Venice/Verona and do not stop in Florence

The total shall be close to 120 as I said

I counted trains on the SNCF website, it is always hard considering all possible option but honestly I cannot see how they can be more than 70-100 on the Marseille-Lyon line
From sbb.ch for Dec. 2 2010, I count (approximately, I may have miscounted duplicates):

From Marseilles: 17 trains to Paris, 20 to Lyon (and then towards Lille, Rennes, Nantes...), 1 to Lille/Bruxelles not calling at Lyon.

From Toulon: 5 trains for Paris not calling at Marseilles

From Montpellier: 13 trains to Paris, 12 to Lyon

So Northbound only, that's 68 trains daily. In both directions, that's between 130 and 140 trains running every weekday on the line (not counting the 2 Marseilles <-> Montpellier trains and the few Paris <-> Valence-ville which run on small portions of the LGV).

Anyway, regarding Milano - Torino, what are the ongoing works and the expected improvements in terms of travel time?
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Old December 5th, 2010, 07:57 AM   #837
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Anyway, regarding Milano - Torino, what are the ongoing works and the expected improvements in terms of travel time?
The completion of Turin's urban tunnel may save a few minutes. Other than that there are no planned works.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 10:27 AM   #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The completion of Turin's urban tunnel may save a few minutes. Other than that there are no planned works.
it shall in reality save 10 minutes, due to the cut of the current fairly large travelling time within Turin area.

It shall become at the end 40 minutes between the new station of Porta Susa and Milano Centrale.

Currently there are only two tracks from Porta Susa to the HSL which are shared with local and intercity trains
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Old December 5th, 2010, 10:31 AM   #839
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This is what Turin looks like now: 10 years ago there were 2 tracks only in the surface. Now a tunnel for 2 tracks has been built already and another is U/C now after the first has been completed. Construction is still humongously big as this is a work to basically join the two halfs of Turin historically separated by the railway

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fatte oggi....



















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Old December 5th, 2010, 10:36 AM   #840
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This is what Porta Susa looks like now...the station in reality is already open but accesses and services are not optymal, this will be the real station

I think now you can have an idea why there are not so many HS trains between Milan and Turin yet

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Ciao a tutti!!!

oggi sono riuscito ad andare in cantiere e ho fatto qualche foto.

L'impressione dell'avanzamento lavori è stata molto buona. Ragazzi, avremo una stazione STRAORDINARIA ! ! ! ! ! Stare sotto quella volta di vetro è stata un'emozione unica!!! Credo che chi si trovò sotto la volta di vetro di Porta Nuova nel 1868 abbia provato la mia stessa emozione.

Ecco qui alcune foto:

[IMG]http://i54.************/m9r4u1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i53.************/35iyb8o.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i52.************/5kgbh4.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i56.************/seojdk.jpg[/IMG]
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