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Old December 17th, 2010, 12:54 AM   #901
Eddard Stark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Just to say that "valico" in this case is better translatedas "pass" or "tunnel", that is, a road or railway that cros a mountain range (in this case, it will the third railway crossing the mountain in the same point)

(the longest tunnel there would be around 27-30 km)
in fact I wrote "series of tunnel" in total around 50 km...not one tunnel of 50 km

correct about "pass"
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Old December 17th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #902
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http://www.lepost.fr/article/2010/12...le-ruiner.html (in French only)

http://www.lepost.fr/article/2010/12...rroviaire.html (in French only)

http://www.lepost.fr/faq/

Last edited by lupin22; December 17th, 2010 at 04:38 PM. Reason: :)
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Old December 18th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solchante View Post
thanks for the map
la mia mappa è molto approssimativa ed è utile solo a riassumere i diversi argomenti trattati nel thread.
Ecco alcune mappe maggiormente accurate.
http://www.interrailnet.com/download...urope-2010.pdf
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...taly/italy.gif


Italy ERTMS map
( European Rail Traffic Management System )
http://www.rfi.it/cms-file/immagini/.../ertms_big.pdf

SCMT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistema...o_Marcia_Treno
http://www.rfi.it/cms-file/immagini/...c/SCMT_big.pdf

-

France HSL map (Principaux projets de lignes à grande vitesse issus du Grenelle de l'environnement)

http://www.developpement-durable.gou...-Grenelle.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenelle_Environnement

Last edited by lupin22; December 18th, 2010 at 04:47 PM. Reason: :)
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Old December 26th, 2010, 08:34 AM   #904
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Some wonderful pictures from David Pixel of new Torino PS station UC.

two of the three tunnels where trains pass have been completed (and opened) while the third is being constructed now (you can see it being covered) while the station itself is built. Once finished, all will be covered by a boulevard

The old station you can see in the last picture is the old Torino Porta Susa, dismissed last year

Further prove of the reasons why its currently difficult to have a proper HS service between Milan and Turin...the station in Turin for most services and more comfortable for many is still UC and the constructions considerably slow travel time between the cities

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Pixel View Post

Avanzamento della copertura vetrata:
[IMG]http://i55.************/34t3ngp.jpg[/IMG]

Avanzamento posa archi e copertura canna:
[IMG]http://i56.************/2mdhvtc.jpg[/IMG]

Avanzamento copertura canna lato c.so Vittorio:
[IMG]http://i52.************/34xom5e.jpg[/IMG]

Avanzamento scavo canna davanti alla vecchia Porta Susa:
[IMG]http://i53.************/w9d2c0.jpg[/IMG]
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Old December 26th, 2010, 10:34 AM   #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
two of the three tunnels where trains pass have been completed (and opened) while the third is being constructed now (you can see it being covered) while the station itself is built. Once finished, all will be covered by a boulevard
There are two tunnels north of Porta Susa, one for suburban trains and one for other traffic, and three tunnels south of this station, one to the Fréjus railway (Lyon-France), one to Torino Lingotto (line to Genova and other cities south of Turin), one to Porta Nuova (terminus station).
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Old December 26th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Paris-Lyon: 240 (between Paris and the branch to Dijon, but it's 30 years old)
Lyon-Marseille: 140 (between Lyon and Valence)
Bologna-Florence: 70 (but not so bad for being a new line, comparable to the Paris-Lyon just after the opening)
Milan-Bologna: less than 70
And on the LGV Nord there are about 120 TGV runs daily divided in Regional, interregional and interantional HSTs.

I believe that the main difference between the number of passengers transported on the Italian and on the French HSL is due not only by the number of runs but also by the train capacity and seat occupancy.
In France tehre are TGV Dupex running in pairs during rush hours. These train formations can carrying about 1100 passengers with an average seat occupancy ranging from 75 to 92-95% on week-ends.

The 72 or so runs from Milan to Rome are carrying about 20,000 - 25,000 passenger /daily with a seat /occupancy ratio of 52-55% A ten passenger car ETR500 will carry about 500-520 pax.

SNCF will carries the same number of passengers with less than 30 runs of Double Decker TGV Trains travelling in pairs.
So the number of trains in a given HS line does not mean much, if taken on its own. Other parameters ought to be considered.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in the next time-table, TI reduces the number of HST's on the Milan- Rome calling at Bologna and Florence, or reduces the fares, or increases the number of special offers/ special fares available.

Certainly something can be done to modulate the offer of seat availability on peak hours and/or a reduction of runs during off-peak hours.

The serivces offered and fares available have still to be finely tuned.

Quite probably there will be some significant changes, at least on the Milan-Rome, and on the he Milan-Turin,

In the latter HSL the offer is quite unsatisfactory, and it has been so for sometime.

Last edited by joseph1951; December 27th, 2010 at 09:00 PM.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #907
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Hello,

I've read that a private company called Nuovo Trasporto Viaggiatori will provide high speed trains between Rome and Milan using AGV trainsets. Will this service replace Frecciarossa or will it be additional service or how will it work?
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Old December 26th, 2010, 02:41 PM   #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
1-
Anyway 'hidden' advertisings are generally used in these movies.

Did Trenitalia pay the production? maybe... or maybe the contrary

2-
It's not that important and I don't see anything wrong with it
1-
Precisely!
2-
But this is not necessarily a sign of commercial success of the Frecciarossa service. The serial movies are "sponsored" by advertising and if TI pays to advertise the Frecciarossa on "soap operas". This probably means that TI is trying to advertise its HSLs services in order to get more customers to fill-in its HSTs with passengers. But it might not means that the train has been used by the film producer because is so beatiful to be capable of turning a soap-opera shoddy episode into a cinematographic masterpiece.........

Last edited by joseph1951; December 26th, 2010 at 02:52 PM.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 02:42 PM   #909
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It will be an additional service, in direct competition with Trenitalia's Frecciarossa.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
It will be an additional service, in direct competition with Trenitalia's Frecciarossa.
Thank you for your quick answer :-)
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Old December 26th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
1-
Precisely!
2-
But this is not necessarily a sign of commercial success of the Frecciarossa service. The serial movies are "sponsored" by advertising and if TI pays to advertise the Frecciarossa on "soap operas". This probably means that TI is trying to advertise its HSLs services in order to get more customers to fill-in its HSTs with passengers. But it might not means that the train has been used by the film producer because is so beatiful to be capable of turning a soap-opera shoddy episode into a cinematographic masterpiece.........
it's not a TV series, it's a hollywood movie

yawn
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Old December 26th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There are two tunnels north of Porta Susa, one for suburban trains and one for other traffic, and three tunnels south of this station, one to the Fréjus railway (Lyon-France), one to Torino Lingotto (line to Genova and other cities south of Turin), one to Porta Nuova (terminus station).
there is only one tunnel (with two tracks shared by all trains, regional IC and AV) north of Porta Susa. Construction for the second tunnel is still ongoing, before that the Turin network will rely only on 2 tracks from Porta Susa to the HS line

Coccodrillo, I did not expect such a mistake
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Old December 26th, 2010, 04:55 PM   #913
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Sorry, I was thinking about the final situation. You are right, only one tunnel north of Porta Susa is already opened.
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Old December 27th, 2010, 05:48 PM   #914
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Quote:
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it's not a TV series, it's a hollywood movieyawn
So what?
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Old December 27th, 2010, 07:29 PM   #915
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I was here thinking... Italy public finances are in crisis, though not an acute one like Ireland or Greece and far more manageable.

Shouldn't it be the perfect opportunity (politically speaking) for the government to get rid of its shares on Trenitalia? Or at least of its shares on high-speed division?

I'm not talking about RFI (which manages infrastructure), just the passenger operations.

When Alitalia was finally privatized, it wasn't the end of the World, except for the fat-cats of public employment unions. What if Italy gets rid of Trenitalia and leave the country with a truly free market system where the government, through RFI, manages infrastructure but don't mingle with stock ownership and operation, fare prices, schedules etc?
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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #916
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Because there are still some serious transport engineers left in Italy, who don't like to destroy their Nation and waste public money giving power to some mad marketing ideologist.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 04:38 PM   #917
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actually this is what will surely happen in a few years due to progressive european rail liberalization (not to be confused with privatization: if anyone doesn't know the difference please abstain from commenting).

There is no reason why the state cannot provide public services and goods through contracts with privately-owned companies rather than through contracts with public ones.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 06:11 PM   #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
There is no reason why the state cannot provide public services and goods through contracts with privately-owned companies rather than through contracts with public ones.
This is acceptable, even if when that happens usually rolling stock remains property of the local authorities, and only operation is given to private companies.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
This is acceptable, even if when that happens usually rolling stock remains property of the local authorities, and only operation is given to private companies.
Depends...for local services probably it makes sense, for long distance less I believe.

The point is that it would be perfectly doable to the following

1) Separate as in the UK the ownership of the network (RFI) from the services (Trenitalia and possibly two companies: Trenitalia local and Trenitalia AV)

2) Liberalize access to the network to private operators, through market systems for HSR and long distance services, through contracts (regional-based) for local transport

3) AFTER the liberalization privatize the Trenitalia AV and possibly even Trenitalia local companies, which will compete with other private and international competitors for the market of long distance travel and for the contracts of local transport

I think in the medium-long term we will reach this situation thanks to european liberalizations, provided the French do not derail all
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Old December 28th, 2010, 07:46 PM   #920
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Bologna-Firenze should be considered regional or long distance traffic?
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