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Old October 26th, 2011, 01:00 AM   #981
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in bologna:

7 east
4 west
11 central + 8 in construction (4 metropolitan service, 4 high speed)
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Old October 26th, 2011, 08:26 AM   #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
If it is not used for passenger operations, why should it be numbered necessarily?
It is quite common to number all tracks, as the track numbers are not just for the convenience of the passengers.

Quote:
And what do you propose for stub platforms which twins interrupted by a building or long platforms used for 2 short train operations simultaneously?
You just give each track its own unique number, regardless of whether it's a stub track or a through track. And long tracks you just divide up in sections, that you mark using letters.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 09:52 AM   #983
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In Germany or Switzerland tracks 1 east and 1 west would be numbered, say, 21 and 41; and so on.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 12:21 PM   #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
It is quite common to number all tracks, as the track numbers are not just for the convenience of the passengers.
The tracks, the platforms or the tracks with adjacent platforms? I don't think it is common to name through tracks without any adjacent platform.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 01:13 PM   #985
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And why not Milano Rogoredo?

13 trucks numbered this way: "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 1 tronco, 2 tronco, 3 tronco, 4 tronco, 5 tronco".


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Old October 26th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't think it is common to name through tracks without any adjacent platform.
It is more common than you think. As far as I know it's common in Switzerland, in Germany and the Netherlands. The reason is to avoid ambiguity, so that for example "track 3" means the same thing to a signal giver, a train driver, a shunter etc...
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Old October 26th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauz® View Post
And why not Milano Rogoredo?

13 trucks numbered this way: "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 1 tronco, 2 tronco, 3 tronco, 4 tronco, 5 tronco".
What does "tronco" mean?
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Old October 26th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #988
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Literally it means 'cut off', but here means 'dead track'



[IMG]http://i40.************/25gffrb.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 26th, 2011, 08:07 PM   #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The tracks, the platforms or the tracks with adjacent platforms? I don't think it is common to name through tracks without any adjacent platform.
In Switzerland basically every section of track located between two switches has a number so to indicate clearly the position of a train, a problems, workers occupying a track, etc. Usually three digit numbers are used (except for tracks with platforms), following some rules. That's why in Bellinzona there is a track 809 used also for passenger trains (when it was numbered, it wasn't used by passengers).
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Old October 27th, 2011, 02:05 PM   #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Literally it means 'cut off', but here means 'dead track'


I notice there are not tracks 1 and 2, but that they probably were once there are intended to be installed in the future. What's the source of this diagram? I'm quite interested in railway schematics...

As to numbering: It probably would have been better to number the stub tracks 21-25 in stead... But after missing a train once in Italy this way I am now warned, and look out for such details...
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Old October 27th, 2011, 04:17 PM   #991
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The source is one of the documents that RFI makes available (but hidden) on its website, and shows the track plan during reconstruction works. Since then tracks 1 and 2 have been laid, among other things.
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Old October 27th, 2011, 07:45 PM   #992
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I didn't find an 'updated' scheme: this one was provided by fra74 in milanotrasporti forum
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Old November 13th, 2011, 12:56 PM   #993
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A few pics I shot yesterday. Still works in progress at Roma Tiburtina new high speed station.




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Old November 23rd, 2011, 04:13 AM   #994
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Nuovo Trasporto Viaggiatori

NTV is the most ambitious private open-access railway operation in Europe up to now. They are, finally, expected to start operating the first services in January or February.

Slots have been reserved, like this, for the Venezia-Roma operations:



They will basically operate (Napoli)-Roma-Firenze-Bologna-Milano-(Torino) and Roma-Firenze-Bologna-Venezia services. But they still don't have enough trains, as Alstom is behind schedule delivering the revised AGV train sets (after their pre-commissioning with RFI).


This is how they look like (actual trains, without the internal and external finishing, which are supposed to be a "surprise")

.

.
Nola Depot

.
image hosted on flickr

I treni Italo a Nola by Treno .Italo - NTV S.p.A., on Flickr
.
image hosted on flickr

IL PRIMO TRENO: Lato treno by Treno .Italo - NTV S.p.A., on Flickr

On the Ferrovie On Line (an Italina forum about railways) I found what is apparently a schedule of trains at Napoli (times of departure, call or arrival at Napoli)
Quote:
9914 Napoli-Milano P.G. partenza alle 6.00
9918/9920 Salerno-Napoli-Milano P.G. alle 7.00
9984 Napoli-Venezia alle 8.25
9926 Napoli-Torino P.S. alle 9.00
9901 Roma Ost.-Napoli alle 9.05
9903 Bologna-Napoli alle 10.05
9907/9909 Milano P.G.-Napoli-Salerno alle 11.05 effettua 9942/9944
9915/9917 Torino P.S.-Napoli-Salerno alle 13.05 effettua 9950/9952
9942/9944 Salerno-Napoli-Milano P.G. alle 14.00
9948 Napoli-Torino P.S. alle 15.00
9950/9952 Salerno-Napoli-Milano G.P. alle 16.00
9927 Milano P.G.-Napoli alle 16.05
9931 Torino P.S.-Napoli alle 17.05
9964 Napoli-Bologna alle 19.00
9939 Milano P.G.-Napoli alle 19.05
9943/9945 Torino P.S.-Napoli-Salerno alle 20.05
9987 Venezia-Napoli alle 20.35
9955 Torino P.S.-Napoli alle 23.05
Above all, what is interesting is that this will be true competition: no coordinated schedules, no provision for common tickets with Trenitalia, no provision to use each others' train if one is cancelled/delayed etc. Let the price wars now begin
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 06:32 AM   #995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Above all, what is interesting is that this will be true competition: no coordinated schedules, no provision for common tickets with Trenitalia, no provision to use each others' train if one is cancelled/delayed etc. Let the price wars now begin
And let the public be damned...
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 06:53 AM   #996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
And let the public be damned...
The public will have more choice. Like they have had with airlines since international flight travel was de-regulated in the 1980s/1990s. Nobody can use a Lufthansa ticket to fly American Airlines on a Frankfurt-Chicago route, but prices are much lower.

I'm sure this move by NTV will result in lower prices from Trenitalia whose trains are inferior in terms of comfort and travel time
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 07:13 AM   #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
NTV is the most ambitious private open-access railway operation in Europe up to now. They are, finally, expected to start operating the first services in January or February.

Slots have been reserved, like this, for the Venezia-Roma operations:



They will basically operate (Napoli)-Roma-Firenze-Bologna-Milano-(Torino) and Roma-Firenze-Bologna-Venezia services. But they still don't have enough trains, as Alstom is behind schedule delivering the revised AGV train sets (after their pre-commissioning with RFI).


This is how they look like (actual trains, without the internal and external finishing, which are supposed to be a "surprise")

.

.
Nola Depot

.
image hosted on flickr

I treni Italo a Nola by Treno .Italo - NTV S.p.A., on Flickr
.
image hosted on flickr

IL PRIMO TRENO: Lato treno by Treno .Italo - NTV S.p.A., on Flickr

On the Ferrovie On Line (an Italina forum about railways) I found what is apparently a schedule of trains at Napoli (times of departure, call or arrival at Napoli)


Above all, what is interesting is that this will be true competition: no coordinated schedules, no provision for common tickets with Trenitalia, no provision to use each others' train if one is cancelled/delayed etc. Let the price wars now begin
Hopefully the Italian public will wake up to the sham that is trenitalia after riding a (hopefully) much better service, and trenitalia will start losing massive market share... one can only dream...
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 10:22 AM   #998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Above all, what is interesting is that this will be true competition: no coordinated schedules, no provision for common tickets with Trenitalia, no provision to use each others' train if one is cancelled/delayed etc. Let the price wars now begin
That's why I will not be able to use them...
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 01:36 PM   #999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The public will have more choice. Like they have had with airlines since international flight travel was de-regulated in the 1980s/1990s.
This is not just about choice. A lot of tax payer money went in to the high speed railway infrastructure in Italy. It 's the duty of the government to make sure that the maximum amount of value to the taxpayer is generated from that investment. That means that government has a duty to interfere if competition ends up lowering the total value of the service offered.

If railways could operate without any form of public support that would be different of course, but that is currently not the case.

Quote:
Nobody can use a Lufthansa ticket to fly American Airlines on a Frankfurt-Chicago route, but prices are much lower.
But you can use an United Airlines ticket. Ever heard of code sharing?

Quote:
I'm sure this move by NTV will result in lower prices from Trenitalia whose trains are inferior in terms of comfort and travel time
Of course Trenitalia will need to compensate for the loss of revenue, which might mean that elsewhere, where there is no competition, prices might go up, or services canceled. Which means less value to the tax payer funding al that beautiful but underutilized railway infrastructure...
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 01:39 PM   #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Slots have been reserved, like this, for the Venezia-Roma operations:

Interestingly two services don't stop in Firenze, although the timetable appears to allow for it. However RFI does seem to insist on proper interval timings...
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