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Old February 14th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #1101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
This article should give you an idea of the Railjet cost:
The deal is worth around Euros 200m and deliveries will begin in 2013, with all 16 of the seven-car sets due to enter service by 2014.
I don't get it. Do you want to prove or disprove my assertion?
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Old February 14th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #1102
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Not without locos! Every Taurus were assembled in Graz and Wien by OBB. Not at München Allach and for 23 courses per 244 million euro. Total conception, construction the Wagenkästen and the interior arrangement become at the locations of Siemens TS in Graz too. Yes,in October 2007 of altogether 44 further courses in the total value by 540 million euro. Thus the railjet fleet will increase until 2013 on 67 pieces.

[...]
Actually they do that in Linz.

The coaches are being assembled by Siemens in Graz and Vienna.

CD pays an average of around € 1,8 Mio per coach.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I don't get it. Do you want to prove or disprove my assertion?
Neither.
I posted a document found in a reputable journal just to put an end to a little dispute.
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Old February 14th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #1104
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Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Actually they do that in Linz.

The coaches are being assembled by Siemens in Graz and Vienna.

CD pays an average of around € 1,8 Mio per coach.
Yes,I wrote "were assembled".... Siemens in Linz and Graz assembled only locos alias Eurosprinter U2 and EuroRunner for state and private railways in A,HU,I and SLO





After the construction locos were Delivered at Siemens Terminal of München Allach for the test....
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Old February 14th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #1105
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Quote:
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I'm having a bit of trouble parsing what you write above. Have you just passed a German text through a machine translator?

Anyway if by "44 courses" you really mean "44 consists" I have to repeat that the consists we are talking about are just the cars. The locomotives ÖBB already had. So that is 540 million for 44 X 7 cars. You do the math.

The Railjet orders were carriages only.
Courses=Carriage are synonyms! Well,about:

Quote:
So that is 540 million for 44 X 7 cars. You do the math.
1,8 M.circa as wrote KingNick!

Is about the "second line" cost much more than the first. It's expensive because german Siemens working for the best of the best for its train. Railjet for the intention was the austrian answer for the HST in Europe. Built with ICE standard. For austrian Railjet 1 series were called "Raildreck" for its cheaper interior and for the garbage inside the coach when the train depart from Budapest
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Old February 21st, 2012, 12:35 PM   #1106
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Prove nei pressi di Salone RM



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Postata anche sul 3d di RM Tiburtina:

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Old February 23rd, 2012, 03:03 AM   #1107
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Siemens - ČD Railjet deal

ČD wanted to use its trainsets on attractive Berlin-Vienna route since mid 1990-ties. It was the decisive factor when ČD decided to buy its Pendolinos. However, due the financial difficulties ČD decreased its original order from 10 sets to 7. This was later used as an argument by german autorities that lower amount of trainsets is unable to provide sufficient transport capacity along with the argument that the German tracks are of poor quality and the Pendolino would be unable to profit from its high speed and tilting capabilities. (the quality of austrian track is also rather low). Pendolinos were condemned to stay within Czech Republic with few exeptions, creating a multi-million loss every year instead of profiting from a lucrative market.

The idea of buying Railjets is about fullfilling the same goal, but by means more acceptable to the Germans. They demanded some modifications and additional services on board, ČD decided to abolish the Premium class in the favor of first class and provide space for bicycle and more luggage space than original sets.

There is a memorandum of understanding between ČD and Siemens about buying the trainsets, however ČD could eventually cancel the deal before the end of march without any sanctions, but it seems unlikely to me. The only possible option will be if DB again denies the use of ČD trainsets on their tracks making the acquisition useless.

The order has been changed 15 trainsetsand consists 8-8 carriage trainsets and 7-7 carriage trainsets. Due to modifications costs raised to 216,5 at a cost of 1,92 mil.€ per carriage.

These trainsets are to be hauled by the locomotive Škoda 109€, breaking the hegemony of Tauruses.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 04:32 AM   #1108
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Why would DB disallow CD the usage for Railjet trainsets? ÖBB Railjets are certified for 230 km/h in Germany.

The only problem could be with the new Skoda locos. Are they certified in any other country than CZ yet?

Generally speaking it doesn't make much sense for CD to buy trains like that.
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 08:40 PM   #1109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Why would DB disallow CD the usage for Railjet trainsets? ÖBB Railjets are certified for 230 km/h in Germany.

The only problem could be with the new Skoda locos. Are they certified in any other country than CZ yet?

Generally speaking it doesn't make much sense for CD to buy trains like that.
I guess the operation on this route will be provided by strategic partnership between ČD and DB so the agreement of DB matters a lot. DB might choose as his Czech partner private company Regio Jet.

Škoda locos have already been certified for operation in Slovakia and are now hauling passenger trains in test mode there. I am not sure about the rest of Central European countries, but I can´t imagine that it would fail somewhere.

Well what alternatives would you recommend to Czech railways instead of Railjet?
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Old February 23rd, 2012, 09:30 PM   #1110
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They should do it like Regiojet. Buy used Eurofima coaches, and renew them. Those coaches are brilliant. Way more comfortable than all the new coaches (Railjet, ICE...) around these days. But I guess I am just glorifying the past here.

Eurofima coaches + new control cars. Certainly enough for CD's network.

As for certification: I remember hearing, that Skoda was having some serious issues getting their loco certified in Germany. Can't remember why though, but Germans are pretty tough here.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 05:09 AM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
As for certification: I remember hearing, that Skoda was having some serious issues getting their loco certified in Germany. Can't remember why though, but Germans are pretty tough here.
Siemens protects its market... therefore declared that Skoda used Siemens patents .... of course court decision will take years and that's the aim of Siemens = delay selling of Czech locos in Germany
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Old February 25th, 2012, 01:14 PM   #1112
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That is not true. If patents were being violated or not, is no question in the certification process. But apparently Skoda does have some serious issues here. One of their locos was being seized during certification runs in Austria not too long ago. Bombardier had it seized though and not Siemens.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #1113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
That is not true. If patents were being violated or not, is no question in the certification process. But apparently Skoda does have some serious issues here. One of their locos was being seized during certification runs in Austria not too long ago. Bombardier had it seized though and not Siemens.
sorry my fault I was talking about Bombardier ....
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:54 AM   #1114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
They should do it like Regiojet. Buy used Eurofima coaches, and renew them. Those coaches are brilliant. Way more comfortable than all the new coaches (Railjet, ICE...) around these days. But I guess I am just glorifying the past here.

Eurofima coaches + new control cars. Certainly enough for CD's network.

As for certification: I remember hearing, that Skoda was having some serious issues getting their loco certified in Germany. Can't remember why though, but Germans are pretty tough here.
I guess the Germans and Austrians behave really protectionist about their markets and obstructions are really common when dealing with companies from Eastern Europe. Škoda will successfully complete its certification at all costs, it´s almost a matter of life and death for the loco. Germans can cause delays but not forever. However I do not say this is the case.

ČD wants also to raise their prestige, most of coaches should be modernized, but for the highest quality of IC and maybe some EC (which status is actually much lower) need something of a premium quality and image.
It does not make much difference to buy Siemens Viaggio Comfort or other cutting edge carriage from the region. The last price for comparable (but still a bit inferior) in the region was 1,75 mil.€ per carriage.

Maybe Arad and other producers are cheaper but the carriages for RegioJet though comfortable look cheap. And image counts when dealing with brands.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #1115
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Well Austria's Infrastructure Ministry has proven many times already that they do not protect anybody. Just some months ago when Westbahn's Stadler trains had been certificated and germans are just ridiculously fussy in this matter. I am pretty sure though that Skoda will get the certificate for their loco in time.
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Old February 26th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
They should do it like Regiojet. Buy used Eurofima coaches, and renew them. Those coaches are brilliant. Way more comfortable than all the new coaches (Railjet, ICE...) around these days. But I guess I am just glorifying the past here.

Eurofima coaches + new control cars. Certainly enough for CD's network.

As for certification: I remember hearing, that Skoda was having some serious issues getting their loco certified in Germany. Can't remember why though, but Germans are pretty tough here.
Where can I get some data about those regiojet Eurofirma coaches? Weight, air system, power they need(witch current), heating, how are doors controlled, maintenance etc. Thanks.
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Old February 27th, 2012, 04:01 AM   #1117
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They bought these Eurofima coaches:

12 x ABmz 30-70
8 x Ampz 18-91
6 x Bmz 21-70

I don't have more info for you at this moment.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #1118
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Initial timetable for Italo (NTV) services

The initial timetable for Italo services has been released

If anyone is curious, you can check the PDF.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:04 AM   #1119
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The initial timetable for Italo services has been released
Just had a look, interesting. You may have noted that even private railway
companies put in place passenger train schedules with hourly patterns...
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Old March 5th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #1120
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The initial timetable for Italo services has been released

If anyone is curious, you can check the PDF.
It's interesting how they manage to be faster then Trenitalia on Milano - Napoli despite having two stops in Milano (with their services being better integrated in the Milano transport network). This is possible because they don't go in to Roma Termina, but in stead use Rome Tiburtina. When is Trenitalia expected to to the same thing?

I wonder if SNCF will coordinate it's Paris - Torino - Milano schedule with Italo. SNCF owns 25% of NTV, and coopetating with them for France - Italy traffic seems logical. NTV could sell SNCF tickets at their offices too.
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