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Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:37 AM   #1521
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The next domestic HSL projects in Italy should be in my opinion:

- completion of link Milano-Venezia
- Messina bridge (not exactly HSL but part of a fast Sicilia-mainland-link)
- Genova-Milano HSL
- new HSL Bologna-Ancona-Civitanova Marche-Pescara
- reconstruction work to make the Salerno-R. Calabria line fit for 230km/h traffic (a brand new HSL linking the inland cities would be awesome but it would cost 100 billion euros)
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:44 AM   #1522
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The next target of investment should be in the regional and commuter trains. The system is well behind top European standards. Milano-Venice should be completed and it probably will be, the rest is 2nd priority at best.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:59 AM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The next domestic HSL projects in Italy should be in my opinion:

- completion of link Milano-Venezia
- Messina bridge (not exactly HSL but part of a fast Sicilia-mainland-link)
- Genova-Milano HSL
- new HSL Bologna-Ancona-Civitanova Marche-Pescara
- reconstruction work to make the Salerno-R. Calabria line fit for 230km/h traffic (a brand new HSL linking the inland cities would be awesome but it would cost 100 billion euros)
- When do you expect that HSR reach from Milano to Venezia? Is that segment under construction now?

- A common question, I know but I have to do it: What it pass with Messina Bridge? It is under construction or it is only in planning stage? I ask you because you put that on future works that will do in Italy.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 03:34 AM   #1524
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The strait bridge in "incognito". They've done some preparatory works, there is some lack of money to push ahead. All planning-and-drawing has been complete.

They need some € 4 billion on public budget moneys + around 3 from private partners to build the bridge and everything related to it. Some works like road junctions in Messina have been completed already.

I expect the bridge to see heavy construction only after 2018, sadly. But the bridge is essential to the progress and development of Sicilia and Southernmost Italy shouldn't get the shaft with ferries (!!!) over a connection that is less than 4km wide.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 07:43 AM   #1525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The next domestic HSL projects in Italy should be in my opinion:

- completion of link Milano-Venezia
- Messina bridge (not exactly HSL but part of a fast Sicilia-mainland-link)
- Genova-Milano HSL
- new HSL Bologna-Ancona-Civitanova Marche-Pescara
- reconstruction work to make the Salerno-R. Calabria line fit for 230km/h traffic (a brand new HSL linking the inland cities would be awesome but it would cost 100 billion euros)
I think Italy should start with first planting some money trees...
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 08:48 PM   #1526
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There are plenty of discounts available two weeks in advance. Actually, if you take the big European countries for high(er) speed rail travel (Spain, France, UK, Italy, Germany), comparing standard fares is quite useless.

It would be interesting to have data on the average ticket price paid by travelers on given city pairs, but I doubt companies would release such information.
Given that Trenitalia personnel at the ticket booth is not even allowed to inform you that a discount is available... you have to ask yourself.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 09:05 PM   #1527
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Given that Trenitalia personnel at the ticket booth is not even allowed to inform you that a discount is available... you have to ask yourself.
These days, going to ticket booths should be the last-resort option.

Trenitalia automated ticket machines work quite well, are multi-lingual, take credit cards (foreign or domestic) and some even cash.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #1528
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Automated machines don't do discounts, so the alternative to online buying is still the good old ticket booth.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:18 AM   #1529
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Automated machines don't do discounts, so the alternative to online buying is still the good old ticket booth.
What kind of discounts are we talking about? Are the advance purchase economy and super economy fares not available from the ticket vending machines?
I always wonder about the long queues at the ticket windows in Italy...
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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #1530
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The new FRECCIAROSSA 1000 - Mennea- yesterday in full train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F8Knix3bu0
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Old July 4th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #1531
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here it is another video of the show

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Old July 7th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #1532
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is this AGV variant?
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Old July 7th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #1533
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One of my questions was not answered, most where but noy this one, why the train does not enter Modena, or has a station east or west, it is an important city.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #1534
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HS trains need to be... High Speed. Modena is just 15 minutes from Bologna with the regio trains, there is no need for a HS train to stop there.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
HS trains need to be... High Speed. Modena is just 15 minutes from Bologna with the regio trains, there is no need for a HS train to stop there.
Stops can alternate.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 09:18 PM   #1536
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Yes, but no-one would take that train to go after Modena, since there are many others way faster.

To reach such a close station, there are other kind of trains, lice IC and FrecciaBianca, that are meant to stop more often that HST.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 08:56 AM   #1537
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Quote:
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Stops can alternate.
But there are High Speed stopping in Modena. But apart from that "alternating" stops isn't always a good idea. A logical hierarchy of trains is much more efficient and useful.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #1538
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Quote:
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I am surprised by this train Frecacciosa 1.000 suposed to run at 360 Km / H on the italian network, very strange because the company Ansaldo Breda has just been expulsed from the netherlands.

http://www.fsitaliane.it/fsi/Il-Grup...niziano-i-test
The train is 99,9% bombardier. The project is Bombarider Zegfiro Platforma fot th Europena VHSTs (very high speed trains). The desgin is Bombarider the technical cponentent *wako tilting systema, permannt megnet sincronous motors, bogies etc, are buolt by Bombarider plant ian Germani , rest of Eurooe eand China
Ansaldo Breda will do some light carpentry work and installs the seats and the frontal leds, under strict Bombardier supervision.

Bombarider has beene working fot Italy with AnsalfdoBrefa for years. Bombarider will not make much money from thi 50 HSTs but the other Eurpoean Zefiro's evetually sold in the rest of Europe wont' be touched by AB.

The train has to perform better tha the presnt HST's in service as well as the future Talgo 380, G4 series.

Therefore thuese are the minimal feature the Italian Zefiro V300* should have:

Weight 420-440 tonnes (for 4 voltage and apt to travel all aover europe). Power: minimum 12,000 ~ 13,800 KW, acceleration from from 0 to 300 km/h in 3 minutes o less. Top speed of 260 km/h , which will be useless in Italy. Given the very short stretches on the Italian HSL in which the 300 km/h can be attained the acceleration from 0 to 250 km/h is the most important factor.

It is surprising that , in ordet to concquer foreign markets Trenitalia is buyng 50, multi-voltage trainsets, competed by about 8 train speed control stems.

This will add at least 20 tons in weight, and it will make the train very expensive and extremely complex.

For domestic purposes Trenitalia needs some dual tension trains and the ERTMS 2 level.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 09:28 AM   #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Something like this one (sorry for the quality, I had to make it bigger)?




I must inform you though that this pic is quite old... It has been taken from a train in service in 2008. It may be changed now. Actually it has changed a lot. But this may give you an idea.
ou can see from the map you posted that there is already a surface rail link which is used by freight trains an it goes from Castelfrano /Lavino to Mirandola passing over the Bologna - Padova line, near Corticella. It would have been suficient to add two fast track next to the old ones. By bringing the surface bypass south of Bologna (near Mirandola) on the Adriatic Line they have eased the curve. The top sperd of this bypass would have been between 250-400 km/h and to cost would have benn minimal even for the Italian hyper-inflated infrastructural costs.



Originally the new HSL Bologna- Florence shoudl have started more south with access from the Adriatrica line. It would have shorter, with shorter tunnels.

But then local politics prevailed over common sense.

oN the Florence area the line would have linked to th epresent tracks fot the train stopping in Florence whils the non stopping would have continue on the two tracks and enterin at full sped in the DD Flore Roma.

Spending musch less it would have been possibile to mainatain the 300--360 km/h from about 40 km from Milan Central station and all the way to the entrance in the DD Florence -Rome.

The jourey tem fot the HSTs Milan Roma and calling only to Florence would have in the region of 65 -70 minutes. Now it is 105 minutes (or 1h 45 minutes for about 300 km)

Wonderful!
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Old July 8th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #1540
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Quote:
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is this AGV variant?
No. Quite the opposite. AGV is an articulated train and this is not articulated.
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