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Old August 2nd, 2013, 03:21 PM   #1581
superdupont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
1-



Note:
Superdpont appears to be yet another reincarnation of Jean-Marie de la Fayette a troll who, in the last two/three years, has reincarnated about 12-15 times.

His main obsession is the "prepotence of France" a Country which, according to J.M. de la Fayette, (and his subsequent 14-15 aliases), intends to take over Italy.

His last reincarnation appeared on the international section about six months ago, and he was promptly detected, and quickly banned.

As usual he has started a topic in the international section, as well as the Italian one, with the same topic.

He starts in English and continue in Italian...
Als he seems to be the twin brother of another foumer "buoyage system" who write on the same topic on a new italian thread

here is the thread:


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...808&highlight=
yet another french troll..
your argument doesn't make sense...
seriously man, you are ridiculous with your annoying and unnecessary post in our 3ds, and your knowledge about the Italian railways is.....ZERO.
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 02:07 PM   #1582
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Any book of industrial organization will show that the market power of such arrangement is not really exposing incumbents to serious threat from competition.
You forget that even a state monopolist railway has a serious threat from competition. We have seen how railways have lost significant market share everywhere in Europe during the 20ieth century, which proves that competition existed. The problem was not that there was no competition, but that railway were to much shielded from it.


Quote:
This would make the use of infrastructure, at the beginning, less efficient, but over time it would revolutionize rail transport more or less like the deregulation of air transport revolutionized air travel (even if you need plenty of unused runway capacity, even if there is no match between runway construction and guaranteed use, even if for some specific relations service no longer exists).
Infrastructure is expensive, and no country can in fact afford to build infrastructure without there being an immediate need for it. See the mess Spain is in at the moment.
Railways are also very different from airlines, with a completely different cost structure, and tremendous potential for gain from network effects.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 01:20 AM   #1583
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- What is the actual time between Milan and Rome with HSR?

- Is not possible to upgrade the line between Florenze and Rome? Ok, I read in this forum that it is impossible and I see that actual speed in this section is 250 km/h. Is not possible to upgrade to 300 km/h?
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Old August 4th, 2013, 03:47 AM   #1584
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Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
The line Between Rome and Chiusi cannot be raised to 300/320km/h really easily: you have to build it again, due to too bending curves and too short distance between tracks.

The line from Chiusi to Firenze is capable of 300km/h, but to update it you have to change the power supply to 25kV AC.
There were studies about this, and it turned out that trains might earn 5/10 minutes with this upgrade, and it was hence decided not to do it (it would have costed a lot since trains would have stressed a lot more the line).

The upgrade is possible, but not so useful. Too expensive in comparison to what trains would earn.

Moreover to upgrade the line you have to remove from it all non-HS trains (there are a lot between Rome and Orte and between Arezzo and Firenze), since the new power supply doesn't allow them to run on the HS line (all our locos are 3 kV DC except for some of them like E402B), and bring them in the slow line. But this slow line is way over its capacity: between RM and Orte that line is dedicated to suburban trains and freight only (there is one every 10/15 minutes). Between Orte and Firenze the line is very winding, with max speed around 110/120 km/h: not enough for IC trains and fast-regio services.

Bad situation, yes.


Between FI and BO, instead, the slow line was a pretty good one: unlike the really difficult terrain, the old line reaches speeds of 170/180 km/h in some points. But there was a need for HS lines, so that's why we built it. It was designed for 300km/h from the start.

The only way to shorten the time from Rome to Milan is to build HS lines that go over Firenze and Bologna networks: a train has to slow down from 250km/h to 70 in Firenze, to reach 300km/h in the tunnel to Bologna after 10/20 km (losing a lot of time!) and in Bologna it has to slow down from 300 km/h to 90, to accelerate again to 300 after Bologna Underground station (before this station, the speed limit in the old station was 30km/h with a considerable loss of time).
Building a fast tunnel under Firenze, at a speed of 200/250 km/h may reduce the time of the trip from RM to MI to 10/15 minutes!


Another thing that should be considered is the train's acceleration. ETR500 is really heavy and has a really poor acceleration. ETR1000 will improve a lot this, while Italo's AVG already are better than ETR500. In the section between FI and BO the ETR500 will reach 300 km/h after 41 km... Too slow, considered that it has to slow down at km 60 (more or less) to go in the underpass of Bologna.
I did ask this question. Part of it is the equipment being the ETR500 acceleration is slow, the other is that between Roma and Orte Scalo, intercity trains will use the AV to get to Perugia, there is a section which does not handle this that can be upgraded to 300 km/h but would require upgrading the catenary to 25kv/ac
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Old August 4th, 2013, 03:56 AM   #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post

1-
- What is the actual time between Milan and Rome with HSR?

2-
- Is not possible to upgrade the line between Florenze and Rome?
Ok, I read in this forum that it is impossible and I see that actual speed in this section is 250 km/h. Is not possible to upgrade to 300 km/h?
1-
2h 55' with the non-stop fom Milan Central station to Rome- Termini station.

2-

A 170 ~176 km of the northern section of the DD Florence-Rome can be upgraded for 300 km/h running. This would require the ri-electrification of the line and the rerouting of slower trains (regional, IC and Frecciabianca trains) on the old Florence - Rome line.

The upgrading to 25 KV AC and the increase of speed to 300 km/h would allow a reduction of 6-7 minutes in journey time, but this will imply the transfer of many non -HST trains from the DD to the old and slow line, and this seems to be both impractical and unacceptable.

The alternative would be to use on the DD dual tension regional and IC trains capable of 220 km/h running, and with excellent acceleration, such as those in the Bombardier Twindexx platform, but TI does not have this type of rolling stock.

On the other hand, the newly built HS Line Bologna - Florence is only 90 km long and, at present, the journey time is about 35 minute. Perhaps, an HST train with better acceleration than the Etr500, or than ETR600, could reduce the travelling time on this HST line of about 10 minutes.


Further significant reductions in journey time can be obtained with the construction of proper very fast bypasses (250 -300 km/h) of Bologna & Florence and from Settebagni to the beginning of HSL Rome- Naples. These fast bypasses will eliminate 40-45 km of drastic speed restrictions .

Finally, it might be worth remembering that on the HSL Milano- Rome Lines the voltage is changed 4 times, (and 6 times from Milano to Naples, 8 times from Turin to Naples..).

However, it is very unlikely that the modifications I mentioned will be implemented in the next 30 years.
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Last edited by joseph1951; August 4th, 2013 at 07:05 AM.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 10:15 PM   #1586
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Originally Posted by superdupont View Post
that is not true.. and RFF it doesn't exist anymore... dear HANS... no, technically.. TRENITALIA S.P.A and DB A.G. are 'mixed' (private and state) company were (actually) the major shareholder is a state...and they split THE COMPANIES in two branch. ACCORDING TO EU DIRECTIVES.. ->SORRY MY ENGLISH
The EU directives DICTATE that management of infraestructure and operation of train MUST be separated activities ... not that they must be separated companies.

Most EU countries went for FULL PRIVATIZATION of the railway sector altogether instead ... with dreadfull results.




French SNCF runs regulated regional trains on behalf of REGIONAL GOVERNMENTS and maintains the railway infraestructures in behalf of RFF ... local comuter trains ARE NOT from SNCF (if they are then SNCF is runing them for the real owner) and highspeed/intercity and freight are de-regulated markets ... AKA anyone can put trains there.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #1587
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Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Most EU countries went for FULL PRIVATIZATION of the railway sector altogether instead ... with dreadfull results.
!?!?

That's completely false, only the UK privatized railways via concessions. Can you give any other examples? I don't know any.

Allowing private operators to run in a open system is not "full privatization".
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Old August 20th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #1588
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[QUOTE="sotavento;106026812"]
Most EU countries went for FULL PRIVATIZATION of the railway sector altogether instead ... with dreadfull results.
[QUOTE]

That is nonsense. Both regarding te privatization, and the dreadful results...
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Old September 24th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #1589
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Old September 30th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #1590
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Frecciarossa 1000 leave Italy heading Velim

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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:21 AM   #1591
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Is there a train service between Rome Central Station (Termini) and Modena???
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:42 AM   #1592
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Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Is there a train service between Rome Central Station (Termini) and Modena???
Not as high speed train. You can take an IC (intercity) or you have to change in Bologna and take a Frecciarossa/italo HST.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:51 AM   #1593
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Originally Posted by terminal View Post
Frecciarossa 1000 leave Italy heading Velim
Is there some timetable for the movement available ?
Or maybe it is already arrived to Velim.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 02:24 PM   #1594
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Originally Posted by Apteryx View Post
Not as high speed train. You can take an IC (intercity) or you have to change in Bologna and take a Frecciarossa/italo HST.
Oh so it's

Rome<->Bologna Centrale
get off and transfer to another train(?)
Bologna Centrale<->Modena

What's the average overall journey time or estimated travel time?
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 03:17 PM   #1595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Oh so it's

Rome<->Bologna Centrale
get off and transfer to another train(?)
Bologna Centrale<->Modena

What's the average overall journey time or estimated travel time?
Including transfer 3:04-3:09 hours. There seems to be a direct train though that takes 2:40 minutes
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Old October 10th, 2013, 12:52 AM   #1596
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Pendolino Etr450 tilting train, celebrating its 25th anniversary in Milan here in with the train Etr401 first generation of Pendolino of 1975.
Etr450 is the second generation of these tilting trains, (1988) at the present time Pendolino arrived at 6th generation

[IMG]http://i40.************/1113vrd.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i43.************/2vaeeco.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i40.************/11tc0td.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by terminal; October 10th, 2013 at 10:36 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #1597
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Italo services to Adriatic Coast

According to http://www.ntvspa.it/it/ntv/pagine/1...-meno-di-3-ore, new Italo services (partly on non-HSL tracks) have been definitively confirmed between Torino (1x day) and Milano (3x day) to Rimini (2h01 travel time from Milano) and Ancona (2h53 travel time from Milano). Trains will also call at the new Mediopadana station and Bologna.

Timetable
Code:
treno	Ancona  Rimini Bologna	R.E. AV Milano R. Torino
9992	6.57	7.41	8.42	9.07	9.52	11.05
9994	11.57	12.41	13.42	14.07	14.48	-
9996	18.15	19.04	20.02	20.29	21.09	-

treno	Torino Milano R. R.E. AV Rimini Bologna Ancona
9993	-	8.12	8.49	9.19	10.14	11.01
9995	12.32	13.37	14.12	14.41	15.40	16.32
9997	-	18.52	19.29	19.59	20.55	21.45
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Last edited by Suburbanist; October 19th, 2013 at 06:03 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #1598
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
According to http://www.ntvspa.it/it/ntv/pagine/1...-meno-di-3-ore, new Italo services (partly on non-HSL tracks) have been definitively confirmed between Torino (1x day) and Milano (3x day) to Rimini (2h01 travel time from Milano) and Ancona (2h53 travel time from Milano). Trains will also call at the new Mediopadana station and Bologna.
Great! 2 hours to Rimini and 3 to Ancona is Very appealing
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Old October 20th, 2013, 10:30 AM   #1599
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Originally Posted by terminal View Post
Pendolino Etr450 tilting train, celebrating its 25th anniversary in Milan here in with the train Etr401 first generation of Pendolino of 1975.
Etr450 is the second generation of these tilting trains, (1988) at the present time Pendolino arrived at 6th generation
The ETR 401 (1st train of class ETR 400, the same number used to designate the new Zefiro HSTs) was a prototype never built in series (if it was the case, the others units would have been numbered ETR 402, ETR 403 and so on).

From the ETR 450 onwards the numbering system changed, so the units are numbered ETR 450.001, ETR 450.002 and so on, while if the old system was maintained they would have been ETR 451, ETR 452, etc.

The ETR 401 iself is the second prototype, the first was the ETR Y 0160, a single car Pendolino.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #1600
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Well everything correct, except for the Etr401 was more then a prototype as the ETR Y 0160. Even if it was built in only one set, it was used for almost ten years to connect Rome to Ancona and the Riviera Romagnola
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