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Old October 25th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #761
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Navy buys shoe scanner for U-Tapao Airport

Published: 21/10/2011 at 12:00 AM


The Thai armed forces seem to have a special affinity for technology whose effectiveness can be debated, whether it's the GT200 bomb detector or surveillance airships.

This time around, the Royal Thai Navy is purchasing shoe scanners to complement the security systems at its airports in Thailand, starting at U-Tapao airfield, 190 kilometres southeast of Bangkok in Rayong, which serves both military and civilian air services.

The Navy has put in place two sets of MagShoe 3G shoe scanners at U-Tapao's civil passenger terminal. The manufacturer, New York-based IDO Security, said it expects to see its shoe metal detector systems at all Navy air sites throughout Thailand soon. The MagShoe costs $4,400 to $7,000 per unit.

Not a lot of airports use the shoe scanners, perhaps because they are relatively new, having been launched at U-Tapao late last year.

IDO lists six international airports that use its MagShoe system, including those in China, Italy, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Spain. The devices are also used in Italian prisons.

Airports of Thailand Plc, which operates larger airports with significantly more passenger traffic including Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang, has not shown interest in the shoe scanner, and instead is testing much more sophisticated body scanners at Suvarnabhumi.

Suvarnabhumi processes more than 130,000 passengers a day while U-Tapao handles only a few hundred a day.

The shoe scanner is capable of detecting threats concealed in footwear without requiring passengers to remove their footwear as they pass through a security checkpoint. These threats include a wide variety of military, commercial and homemade explosives.

A dozen companies have designed shoe scanning machines, and the US Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has said it may buy 100 of the devices by next year.

USA Today reported earlier this year that the machines didn't pass muster in tests three years ago, but developers of the latest generation of machines promise better results, with the TSA saying the technology will improve security.

The TSA began forcing some passengers to remove shoes in late 2001 after "shoe bomber" Richard Reid tried to ignite explosives in his boots on a US-bound flight.

Shoe removal became mandatory in America in 2006 after a foiled plot to blow up US-bound planes with liquid explosives.

The practice of shoe removal has been adopted at Suvarnabhumi but not at other airports in Thailand.

Dani Werber, international marketing manager for IDO, confirmed on Wednesday that the MagShoe 3G was fully operational at U-Tapao, and the company anticipates additional orders for other Navy locations.

IDO said it had worked with the Israeli Security Agency to develop a patented technology that offers a convenient step-in device that extends screening and metal detection to include the ankles and feet without requiring shoe removal.

The company said its shoe scanner had also undergone stringent testing by the US TSA, the UK Department of Transport, the German BKA (Federal Criminal Police Office) and other agencies.

Mr Werber said MagShoe, which completes a scan in less than two seconds, would prove very useful for U-Tapao during the tourist season when Russians flock to nearby Pattaya. It eases pressure at the checkpoint, making the security process smoother for both security staff and passengers while increasing safety.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...-tapao-airport
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Old November 16th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #762
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Nok Air expects muted full-year earnings

Published: 16/11/2011 at 12:00 AM

The budget carrier Nok Air will remain profitable this year, though the impact of flooding may cut earnings by 15%.

Lower passenger revenues resulting from decreased demand and flight cutbacks, plus higher operating costs driven by the transfer from Don Mueang airport to Suvarnabhumi, have eroded profits, says CEO Patee Sarasin.

"Currently we are not really making a profit due to the adverse effects [of flooding]," he said, "but overall we should be doing fine in terms of profit for the whole of 2011."

Nok Air generated earnings of 230 million baht over the first three quarters of the year, providing a cushion against the negative impact of Thailand's worst flooding in half a century.

Nevertheless, the airline expects full-year earnings to be sharply lower than last year's record near 600 million baht _ largely on fuel prices _ despite its projection of revenue rising to 5.9 billion baht from 3.9 billion baht last year.

The airline currently reports a load factor of 70% as passenger sentiment remains cautious, Mr Patee told the Bangkok Post. He said that without the flood effect, most seats would be taken during the last three months of the year.

Nok Air has been working to restore full operations. It has yet to resume services from Bangkok to Narathiwat, Nakhon Phanom and Buri Ram.

In another development, Nok Air will put two Boeing 737-800s it took delivery of in recent weeks, plus a third one due Nov 24, into service in early December.

The B737-800s have been stored at the Royal Thai Navy-managed U-Tapao airport in Rayong rather than deployed because of slipping demand.

Under a plan being worked out, the new generation of B737s would be used to either augment flights operated by "classic" B737-400 jets or to replace them outright and take advantage of the better fuel efficiency and passenger appeal.

The three planes are part of Nok Air's fleet renewal that includes 12 leased Boeing 737-800s. The current fleet comprises 10 of the older B737-400s and two ATR 72 turboprops.

Nok Air is offering an all-in fare of 800 baht for one-way flights from Bangkok to nine cities, including Chiang Mai and Phuket, and 1,180 baht for flights from Chiang Mai to Mae Hong Son, Nakhon Phanom and Sakhon Nakhon.

The promotion runs Nov 17-28. The number of special-price tickets is limited, and the offer is good for travel between Nov 28 and March 24 of next year.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...-year-earnings
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Old November 16th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #763
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Given how most of the discussion with regards to TG, DD, and PG carriers seems to go here instead of its individual threads, the Thailand Aviation thread will merge and become the thread for all Thailand-Based carriers, which is in-line with what many of the other threads at the Airports and Aviation Section.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 12:25 AM   #764
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Old December 1st, 2011, 09:21 PM   #765
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Nok begins flying new-generation B737 jetliners

Published: 1/12/2011 at 12:00 AM


Nok Air pilots Robin Lloyd and Sanya Limprasert with a B737-800 used for trial flights at Chiang Mai airport.

The budget airline's first two Boeing 737-800s are due for official service start-up on its key domestic trunk routes, including flights from Bangkok to Udon Thani and Chiang Mai, as it takes delivery of its third jet of a similar model next week.

The three aircraft are part of the seven B737-800s under Nok Air's current plan, which will enter its fleet next year as it phases out the older B737-400s, now numbering 10, over the next 1-2 years.

Chief executive Patee Sarasin yesterday described the entry of the so-called "next-generation" B737s as ushering in a new era for the seven-year-old airline, enabling it to better serve passengers and allowing the airline to cash in on the benefits advanced aircraft provides.

The B737-800 is about 20% more fuel-efficiency than the B737-400, yet can carry 189 seats compared to about 145 seats in the older version.

The replacement programme will significantly reduce Nok Air's average jet fleet age from 20 years currently to around five years.

The B737-800 will also have lower maintenance costs and less down time, thus allowing Nok Air to achieve greater operation economy, he noted.

The B737-800s are leased from a number of lessors. The first two were from the aircraft leasing unit of Royal Bank of Scotland and the third from Air Castle of Ireland.

Aircraft due next year would come from lessors such as GE Capital Aviation Service (Gecas) of the US.

Meanwhile, Nok Air will put four more ATR-72 turboprops into its fleet next year as part of its fleet expansion for secondary domestic routes, currently served by two ATR-72s.

Nok Air executives noted that initial passenger response on the new B737-800s during the trial run has been positive thanks to more spacious seats and quieter and more comfortable cabins _ all bode well to passenger appeals.

Nok Air will remain profitable this year though the impact from the floods may reduce its earnings by around 15% from the earlier estimate of more than 200 million baht.

Lower passenger revenue resulting from reduced traffic demand and flight cutback, higher operating costs due to the Oct 25 transfer from its home base at Don Mueang airport to Suvarnabhumi are contributing to less profitability.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...b737-jetliners
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Old December 6th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #766
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THAI resumes technical operation

The Nation December 6, 2011 2:06 pm

Thai Airways International Plc (THAI) announced that its Technical Department in Don Mueang Airport has reopened and has resumed normal technical operations.

Piyasvasti Amranand, president of the company, said the THAI's Technical Department in Don Mueang has reopened after heavy flooding affected Don Mueang Airport and Vibhavadi Rangsit Road, which resulted in temporary closure as it was not possible to conduct heavy aircraft maintenance from 26 October 2011 until now.

As flood waters have receded and the situation has returned to normal, THAI's Technical Department in Don Mueang will open for operations beginning today 6 December 2011 and will be ready to conduct all heavy maintenance services starting on 19 December 2011 every day including on public holidays.

The five aircraft that had been undergoing heavy maintenance in the hangar were unaffected by the flooding as they were supported by aircraft equipment in the hangar. The five aircraft include: two Boeing 747-400, one Boeing 777-300, one Boeing 777-300ER, and one Airbus A330-300. One Boeing 747-400 had been undergoing air cargo retrofit that was initially set for completion in March 2012 is now delayed approximately one month. Economy Class seats in the other Boeing 747-400, originally to be finished in December 2011, is now two-months delayed. The other three aircraft, Boeing 777-300, Boeing 777-300ER, and Airbus A330-300, are undergoing normal maintenance with no impact to THAI's flight planning schedule. For the two Airbus A300-600 aircraft that had been decommissioned from the fleet and were waiting to be sold, THAI's Technical Department had taken care to securely protect these aircraft and engines in plastic wrap, were found to be in normal conditions.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/busi...-30171330.html
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Old December 19th, 2011, 07:40 PM   #767
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Don Mueang to reopen April 1

Published: 19/12/2011 at 05:12 PM

Flood-ravaged Don Mueang airport will reopen for full commercial operations in April 1, Airports of Thailand president Aniruth Thanomkulbutr said Monday.

Inspections confirmed the runway surfaces on the western and eastern sides of the airport are still strong. Water, electricity and other services have been repaired, he said.

Don Mueang airport is under 50 cm of water on Nov 26, 2011. (File Photo)
The AOT chief said Orient Thai and Nok Air could return to their bases at Don Mueang on April 1, 2011. The two domestic airlines switched their operations to Suvarnabhumi airport because of this year's great flood.

Mr Aniruth said there is a new risk. There are more birds flying around the airport because of the fish that arrived with the great flood and they could pose a danger to aviation safety.

Airport authorities will find ways to chase off birds. Suvarnabhumi airport once faced a a similar problem, he said.

The airport was inundated for about six weeks. The cost of repairs and renovating the airport in the wake of the flood is estimated at 20 million baht, Mr Aniruth said.

Deputy government spokesman Chalitrat Chanthrubekkha said the great flood had damaged at least 8,413 factories countrywide causing losses totalling at least 229 billion baht.

The figures were compiled from a survey of 90 per cent of affected factories in 42 provinces, Mr Chalitrat said after today's cabinet meeting during which damage reports were presented.

He said 2,153 factory owners had registered for state help, including tax reductions, between Nov 1 and 16.

Ayutthaya province, where the heavily flooded Rojana Industrial Park and Hi Tech Industrial Estate are located, topped the damage bill at more than 169 billion baht, followed by Pathum Thani, Nonthaburi, Lop Buri and Bangkok.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...reopen-april-1
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Old December 28th, 2011, 08:06 PM   #768
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Thai-Turkish code share boost Europe link

THE NATION December 27, 2011 1:00 am

A code-share agreement between Thai Airways International and Turkish Airlines is expected to help boost traffic for both carriers on the Australia-Thailand-Europe route.

Before the agreement, about 2,000-2,500 passengers a year from Australia stopped over at Istanbul and flew with Turkish Airlines into European coun-tries. The THAI-Turkish deal is expected to boost the number of travellers from four airports in Australia to Europe via Istanbul to 10,000 this year and to 30,000 per year in the future.

The code-sharing agreement took effect on July 15 and the first flight under the arrangement was on September 12.

Under the agreement, Turkish Airlines operates a code-share flight between Bangkok and Istanbul, a destination THAI has no plans to add to its network. For its part, THAI operates code-share flights from Bangkok to Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Brisbane, Perth, Melbourne and Sydney.

Temel Kotil, chief executive officer of Turkish Airlines, said Bangkok would become its regional hub in Southeast Asia while Istanbul would have a higher presence for travellers flying from Asia and Australia to Europe.

"The agreement will help us gain a lot more passengers from Australia from any carriers. It offers potential to add frequencies between Bangkok and Istanbul," he said.

THAI president Piyasvasti Amranand said the agreement would help Thai Airways reduce operating costs for operations in Europe.

The company has no plans to serve Istanbul, but will still gain business from the European market.

He added THAI had revised its strategic plans for the coming year by shifting its focus to Asian markets.

"We will increase capacity [by adding more flights] in Asia and lower it in Europe by using smaller aircraft," he said.

The code sharing with Turkish Airlines is part of THAI's plans prepared for 2012.

The arrangement was suspended briefly during the flood crisis but has been restarted, Piyasvasti said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/busi...-30172693.html
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Old December 31st, 2011, 03:42 PM   #769
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Cool video of Thai B744.
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Old December 31st, 2011, 07:31 PM   #770
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So is Orient Thai Airline flying to Seoul or not? cant find anything on their site.
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Old January 1st, 2012, 06:05 PM   #771
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THAI Smile to go regional re-think as parent


The Nation December 29, 2011 1:00 am

Thai Airways International Plc has revised its strategic and operating plans for its new airline, Thai Smile Air, by shifting its focus from the domestic to the regional market in the first year, aiming to maintain the group's 29-per-cent share in Asia.


"The adjustment came after THAI increased its stake in Nok Air from 39 per cent to 49 per cent, so Nok Air will continue to serve the domestic market while Thai Smile Air will go overseas," Woranate Laprabang, managing director of Thai Smile Business Unit, said in an interview.
In the new four-year business plan, Thai Smile Air will operate from Bangkok to China, India and Asean countries within a three-to-four hour flight time.
THAI is seeking traffic rights and permits so the new airline can start flying to five foreign destinations in July. Only one domestic route will be in the timetable in the first year.
Chinese authorities have already granted permission to land at Xiamen after midnight, but Thai Smile Air refused to take the option and is now looking for other destinations with better arrival times.
The company had initially said it planned to serve only local destinations in the first year - from Suvarna-bhumi Airport to Udon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Chiang Rai and Surat Thani. International routes would come later.
THAI would drop some international routes with less business travel or in price-sensitive environments and let Thai Smile Air take them instead.
It would keep high demand markets like Singapore and Hong Kong.
The first three Airbus A320 aircraft are scheduled to arrive next year. The new airline expects to carry 300,000 passengers in its first year. Eight more similar aeroplanes will be delivered from 2013-15.
"We don't know about revenue in the first year, but it can be estimated in 2013 at about Bt5 billion and will increase due to more aircraft coming in," he said.
Thai Smile Air had been aiming at a domestic-international ratio of 50:50, but that has now been revised to 20:80.
The adjustment was also part of long-term plans to cope with the new friendly skies under the Asean Economic Community (AEC) in 2015.
Under the AEC agreement, Thai Smile Air can operate to all second-tier cities throughout the region. It is currently limited to flying from capital to capital.
Thai Smile Air's positioning is the niche between lower premium airlines and upper low-cost carriers.
A study found that the targeted passengers would need better service standards like at THAI, so some traditional elements will be carried over such as mileage plans.
THAI used to hold nearly 40 per cent of the Asian market before 2003. Since then, its share has slipped to 29 per cent due to the emergence of no-frill carriers in the region.
"Our new airline will help THAI maintain the 29-per-cent market share, or at least prevent a further loss," he said.
Thai Smile Air will beat all existing carriers and many other active players in the region including Hainan Air, King Fisher, Indigo, Cebu Pacific as well as Jet Star Vietnam, he added.
To get ready, the airline is inviting women to submit an application form from today until January 13 to become one of the 100-150 cabin crewmembers that it will need. It also has 40 openings for pilots.THAI will begin ticket sales for the new airline in April through its website, travel agents and all sales offices.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #772
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Old January 15th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #773
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Old January 19th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #774
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Old January 20th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #775
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Nok Air beats earnings goal with B220m

Published: 16/01/2012 at 12:00 AM

Nok Air posted a better-than-expected profit last year despite higher costs inflated by the devastating floods in the fourth quarter.

The budget airline ended 2011 with net earnings of close to 220 million baht, higher than the 193 million it estimated when the deluge hit its home base at Don Mueang Airport on Oct 25, forcing it to flee to Suvarnabhumi Airport. The evacuation cost about 100 million baht, said chief executive Patee Sarasin.

Earnings for the first three quarters cushioned the negative flood impact.

Mr Patee was cautiously optimistic about the airline's outlook for 2012, though he expects sluggish performance in the first half as travellers cut back before a recovery in the second half.

"People will spend money on fixing their houses in the first half," he said.

He predicted a revival of travel sentiment in the second half if there was not a repeat of the floods.

Mr Patee hoped Nok Air could report higher profits this year than 2011, but did not provide any figures.

Its revenues are projected to reach 5.9 billion baht, up from around 4 billion last year, partly because of a 15% increase in aircraft capacity.

The return to its home base at Don Mueang, expected by February or early March, will likely improve its operating costs, efficiency, punctuality and ticket sales.

Heavy congestion at Suvarnabhumi has caused the airline to spend more jet fuel waiting for take-off slots, causing flight delays and frustrating passengers.

After moving to Suvarnabhumi, Nok's on-time average plunged to 28% before improving to 75-80% recently. Its pre-flood record at Don Mueang was 96%.

Several passengers prefer to travel via Don Mueang, as it only takes 5-10 minutes from landing to reach ground transport.

This year, Nok Air targets 5 million passengers, 1 million more than last year's record of about 4 million, as a result of increased capacity with the additional seats offered by its new Boeing 737-800s.

There will be 12 aircraft in Nok Air's fleet this year compared to 14 last year as two jets, the B737-400s, leave service this year.

The fleet consists of five B737-800s, five B737-400s and two ATR 72 turboprops.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...oal-with-b220m
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Old January 20th, 2012, 08:16 PM   #776
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Bangkok Air takes off from Koh Samui to KL

Published: 18/01/2012 at 12:00 AM

Bangkok Airways will begin service from Koh Samui to Kuala Lumpur in March to boost connectivity between its second home base and international destinations.

From March 1, the Malaysian capital will be the third international destination the privately owned airline serves directly from the Thai resort island. The other two are Singapore and Hong Kong, with daily flights and 10 per week, respectively.

The Koh Samui-Kuala Lumpur launch will be aligned with the flights through Kuala Lumpur of Malaysia Airlines, soon to become a code-share partner with Bangkok Airways.

One of the key ideas of the launch is to feed long-haul passengers carried by Malaysia Airlines from Europe and Australia at Kuala Lumpur into the new Bangkok Airways route to Koh Samui.

"We expect half of the passengers travelling on Koh Samui-Kuala Lumpur to come from the transfer group, with the other half originating from the Malaysian capital," said Varong Israsena na Ayudhya, Bangkok Airways' regional sales director.

The carrier will offer a daily flight on the Koh Samui-Kuala Lumpur route using an Airbus 319 with 138 seats, all economy class, at an average fare of 8,500 baht.

The launch is part of the airline's strategy to enable passengers, especially international ones, to fly directly to Koh Samui instead of through Suvarnabhumi airport in Bangkok.

Aside from more than 30 daily Bangkok Airways flights to and from Koh Samui, four other airlines serve the resort island.

SilkAir has five flights a week from Singapore; Firefly and Berjaya Air, both of Malaysia, have daily flights and two flights a week, respectively, from Kuala Lumpur; and Thai Airways International has two flights daily from Bangkok.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...oh-samui-to-kl
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Old January 20th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #777
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Bangkok Airways profits soar

Published: 19/01/2012 at 12:00 AM Newspaper section: Business

Despite massive flooding, privately owned Bangkok Airways posted better-than-expected net profit last year.

The 44-year-old airline also expects improved net profit this year, rising 7% to reach 1 billion baht with revenue surging 15% to 12-13 billion baht.

According to preliminary figures, the airline recorded net earnings of around 600 million baht, higher than the 400 million it estimated during the flood.

Without the flood and its associated costs, the carrier would tally 800 million in earnings, said president Puttipong Prasarttong-osoth.

Mr Puttipong, himself a pilot, was cautiously optimistic about the airline's outlook this year while still acknowledging the downside of the euro-zone debt crisis and uncertain global economy.

Higher fuel prices is another risk factor, but he remained sanguine about Thailand's political tumult. Repeat floods this year are another threat, but he expects the intensity would be less than last year.

"Flooding can be managed," he said.

Management's conservative approach to business should help it weather uncertainties, he added.

It only plans to launch one new international route in 2012 _ Samui-Kuala Lumpur this March _ but it will seek to ramp up frequencies on its existing domestic and regional network.

Though there is no schedule, foreign cities like Vientiane and New Delhi, as well as the resumption of flights to Ho Chi Minh City, Macau, Shenzhen and Xian are on the airline's radar screen.

"We will activate those routes when opportunities knock at our door," said Mr Puttipong, noting the airline can juggle its aircraft capacity, now relatively tight, to accommodate launches.

After years of limited expansion, the carrier, which brands itself "Asia's boutique airline", last year made a foray into India and Bangladesh with the launch of Bangkok-Mumbai and Bangkok-Dhaka routes in March.

On the domestic front, the airline will start serving Lampang from Bangkok by the end of March this year with two flights a day on ATR turboprops.

Bangkok Airways aims to carry 3.5 million passenger this year, up from last year's 3 million.

About 70-80% of its passengers are foreigners, mostly leisure travellers.

This year, the airline will continue to look for opportunities for its long-planned initial public offering (IPO) to divest a minimum 25-30% stake to the public in order to raise funds for future expansion.

"Nothing is certain, but if the circumstance and market conditions are right, the IPO may happen this year," he said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...s-profits-soar
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Old January 26th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #778
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New B90 security charge planned for Thai airports

Published: 26/01/2012 at 12:00 AM

Passengers at major Thai airports will soon have to pay an additional security charge to cover the cost of examining and screening personal information of incoming and outgoing travellers.

A fee of 90 baht per passenger will be levied to cover the cost of an advanced passenger information system (APPS), which will be put in place at airports with international flights.

Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT), which operates the country's six main airports including Suvarnabhumi, last week endorsed the APPS charge as it gears up the security measures.

The electronic data interchange system allows AoT to transmit passenger identification details from passports and flight information to all airport authorities to check whether passengers should be allowed to leave or enter the country.

The information also allows commercial airlines to know whether they should allow passengers to check-in for flights before departure.

Suvarnabhumi director Somchai Sawasdeepon said that APPS will streamline passenger flows and enhance safety.

The introduction of APPS is pending approval from the Transport Ministry, Thai security agencies and the cabinet.

AoT still needs to invest in the system, which is expected to go online in the next six months or so, said Mr Somchai.

The system is similar to one applied in the United States in December 2008 and followed by Europe and Australia.

Commercial airlines will be responsible for collecting the APPS fee on behalf of AoT, and carriers will likely pass the charge on to individual passengers.

Passengers using AoT-operated airports will also face a higher passenger service charge (PSC), or airport tax.

The PSC for international flights is expected to rise to 800 baht per head from 700 baht currently, while for domestic flights it will rise to 255 baht from 100 baht by mid-2013 if approved by the Civil Aviation Department in April.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...-thai-airports
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Old January 30th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #779
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Don Mueang to reopen March 6

Published: 30/01/2012 at 01:24 PM

Don Mueang airport will be reopened for commercial flights on March 6, Airports of Thailand Plc president Anirut Thanomkulbutra said on Monday.

The airport was closed by the crisis flooding late last year.

Mr Anirut said only the eastern runway will be opened for use.

Nok Air, a low-cost airline, has confirmed it will move all its services back to Don Mueang airport, while Orient Thai, another low-cost airline, had yet to make a decision whether to return, he said.

In April, repairs will begin to the eastern runway at Suvarnabhumi airport, covering an area of 1,620 square metres, with a budget of about 150 million baht. It is a routine major repair after five years of use, he said.

The repair work would be completed in 60 days and would not affect normal services of the airport.

There had been consultations with all groups concerned to prevent any problem of flight delays because of the repair work.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/tran...eopening-mar-6
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Old January 31st, 2012, 01:18 AM   #780
krnboy1009
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does Orient Thai go to ICN or not? Cant find anything on their website but Wiki says they do, and usually if its wrong, its gone from Wiki within days but its been there for months.
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