Principal Place | Hackney | 161m/126m | 51/35 fl | App

[Smoggie_Si]

Originally Posted by Tombs

About that 60's block on Great Eastern Street, I can't pin point the exact one you mean, but I think that's the kind of stuff we should be redeveloping into apartments and studio's, not offices. Call me crazy but I think that in the near future, a lot of that bland 60's brutalist stuff, even ranging to dingy council estates, will be considered quite trendy and cool to live in, provided they get cleaned up and looked after a bit better.

It's the one just next to the equally hideous multistorey car park. I'm known for my love of the more challenging 60s brutalist buildings, but trust me this one's a dog!

Agreed that resi would be preferable on Great Eastern Street, but given that the building is already offices, it's not changing the dynamic of the area.

Yes the village atmosphere of the Old Street Roundabout is my quote of the year so far, from the NIMBYs opposing the tower proposed for the end of City Road. It's really hard to know what planet those people are on!

[El_Greco]

Originally Posted by Tombs

I don't know how the hell you'd work it out with all the traffic and you'd probably have to widen a lot of roads, but man that would be incredible.

Or just ban cars from central London.

[Cabman]

Erm the old street roundabout forms part of the highly efficient ring road, that is supposed keep traffic out of central london.

[Varenukha]

Reading through this thread it's interesting to see how some forummers respond to the encroachment of the City. I think if you look a little closer in the City you'll see a myriad old buildings happily co-existing with the new blocks. We have no reason to fear encroachment of new commercial properties into Shoreditch and up City Road, for example, provided that the existing buildings are respected and, where appropriate, preserved. (Which of course doesn't always happen....!)
As for the social and community characteristics of neighbourhoods changing as the corporate world expands, well Brick lane is a fascinating example of how 'twas ever thus. This area has been a home to Huegenots, Jews, Indians, Bangladeshis, each adding their footprints but none able to permanently call this area their own. It's how London works. It would be a mistake to reists this, or to artificially try to create these societies in areas that are clearly more appropriate for other spheres of human activity, i.e. financial services and the worship of Mammon.
So Shoreditch's character will change: c'est la vie. It's just how London is. It's tough if you live there and like it how it is,but London is just a bit brutal that way.

[El_Greco]

Originally Posted by Varenukha

Reading through this thread it's interesting to see how some forummers respond to the encroachment of the City. I think if you look a little closer in the City you'll see a myriad old buildings happily co-existing with the new blocks. We have no reason to fear encroachment of new commercial properties into Shoreditch and up City Road, for example, provided that the existing buildings are respected and, where appropriate, preserved. (Which of course doesn't always happen....!)

We are not talking about old buildings here but about character of the area.I really wouldnt want to see Shoreditchs character destroyed.

[potto]

The City could easily offer heavily subsidised gallery space and community space for gigs and clubs in these huge developments

[Varenukha]

Originally Posted by El_Greco

We are not talking about old buildings here but about character of the area.I really wouldnt want to see Shoreditchs character destroyed.

I didn't want to offend anyone, El Greco.

You raise an interesting point: is it possible to define the character of a location (like Shoreditch, say) that is not constrained by the demographic that happens to exist there at one particular moment? I think it is inevitable that the resi's will get (more) "gentrified" and some big shiny steel and glass money factories will be built, but will the character be maintained? I do not know the neighbourhood well, but my suspicion is that it already looks and feels very different to how it was even 20 years ago.....but is the "character" the same?

[El_Greco]

Originally Posted by Varenukha

I didn't want to offend anyone, El Greco.

Dunno what youre talking about.

I think it is inevitable that the resi's will get (more) "gentrified" and some big shiny steel and glass money factories will be built, but will the character be maintained?

Oh yes it will and it will die then.The thing (character) that made people move to this area in the first place will be gone.
Im very much against gentrification because it doesnt fix any problems it just prices out not so-wealthy people and in some cases it closes off important historic buildings to general public (Bryant & May Match Factory In Bow and Renforth Pumping Station in Rotherhithe are just few examples).
Artist community is already being 'evicted' (off to some other godforsaken area to raise property values then be booted out again).Altough local council is fighting gentrification - it formed a not-for-profit corporation Shoreditch Our Way (ShOW) to buy local buildings and lease them out as community facilities and housing.

[Varenukha]

Originally Posted by El_Greco

Dunno what youre talking about.

Errrm - because you sounded offended. Pretty obvious, I would have thought.

Originally Posted by El_Greco

Oh yes it will and it will die then.The thing (character) that made people move to this area in the first place will be gone.
Im very much against gentrification because it doesnt fix any problems it just prices out not so-wealthy people and in some cases it closes off important historic buildings to general public (Bryant & May Match Factory In Bow and Renforth Pumping Station in Rotherhithe are just few examples).
Artist community is already being 'evicted' (off to some other godforsaken area to raise property values then be booted out again).Altough local council is fighting gentrification - it formed a not-for-profit corporation Shoreditch Our Way (ShOW) to buy local buildings and lease them out as community facilities and housing.

If you are opposed to the process of renewal and the dynamic ebb and flow of communities and cultures in London, then I am afraid that you must be pretty upset with the city on a permanent basis, since it is precisely this characteristic that has defined its development over the centuries. It is pretty brutal on those at the lower end of the social spectrum, but to deny it is to tilt at windmills.

[El_Greco]

Originally Posted by Varenukha

Errrm - because you sounded offended. Pretty obvious, I would have thought.

Im not offended.Dont worry.

If you are opposed to the process of renewal.

Im not opposed to renewal.Im opposed to poorer people being priced out from various areas.Lets face it - gentrification is just a social cleansing.It seems that Central London & River are becoming reserved for the rich.Poor people arent 'good enough' to live there.Thats not fair.

[DarJoLe]

The trouble is I don't see how you can renew areas without causing gentrification. Poorer people will always be forced out whatever you do.

[johnnypd]

renewal and change just doesn't happen on its own like some organic vegetable that is beyond anyone's control, it comes about through a range of interests, motivations and forces coming together, mixing and sometimes confronting one another head on, like the city - shoreditch dichotomy. the city's incursion into shoreditch or spitalfields would represent only one faction's interests at the expense of many others, so it would be a gross mischaracterisation of london's history to think that change is equitable to nature and that any attempt to democratise or influence the process is somehow contrary to the nature of london. we have to also think about how artificial and big the City construct is and how ruthless the corporation can be in pursuit of its interests and the support of the huge financial industry, do we really want that expanding into other areas of london? before the mid victorian era there was not any huge corporations but a vast collection of landowners and merchants, labourers, migrants and so on and the city grew as the result of all these interests interacting. after the fire of london there were various plans by the likes of evelyn and wren to totally refashion the city with a top-down plan to improve the area as a place of wide boulevards, piazzas, streetgrids and triangluar avenues, but the patchwork landownings and mass of interests stymied this and rebuilt the city as it had been, with a few improvements like widened main roads and the opening up of the riverside from private houses to open wharves. the smaller man has always fought for his interests and it has always had a way of shaping the city and at least forcing bigger influences into compromise.

for the past 100 or so years this has not been the case and the city of london has wiped away many little lanes and small scale buildings in favour of huge office buildings, gradually the vibrant mix of london old's city was lost and today we have the situation of lurching towards an office ghetto. if anything action groups, ngos, lobbies and democratic planning consultation as well as more informal groups like us dicussing the city on the internet, can re-assert the role of people in the process of planning the fabric of the city. if we just let the biggest or richest influence win out every time then we'd have a motorway through covent garden, a euston station where st pancras is etc etc. this is especially true for as artificial and self-interested an organisation as the city or financial services sector.

if anything london is not a case of sitting back and letting things happen, it is a case of getting involved in the creation of the city. if the test case for shoreditch and the city co-existing is this tower (and i'm not sure it is), then i know whose side i am on.

[mukkjoy]

heres a shot taken yesterday. i'll post one from higher up when the weathers better it'll give a better idea of the size of the footprint.

[potto]

Originally Posted by johnnypd

renewal and change just doesn't happen on its own like some organic vegetable that is beyond anyone's control, it comes about through a range of interests, motivations and forces coming together, mixing and sometimes confronting one another head on, like the city - shoreditch dichotomy. the city's incursion into shoreditch or spitalfields would represent only one faction's interests at the expense of many others.....

excellent post

[Andyinwindsor22]

will it be BL going to build this building?

[Luke]

No, this is a Hammerson proposal.

[ill tonkso]

That scene looks like it belongs in a small industrial town, not along Bishopsgate :s Just shows how contrasting and diverse this city is.

[mukkjoy]

finally got a shot from up top (the weather been terrible with winds hitting the 70's everyday for a whole week). it was taken early evening so the light was bad and had to play with the image to make it clear but it gives a good idea of the site.



does anyone know if the light bar (in front of the railway track) and football pitches are to go aswell?

[gothicform]

mukkjoy, ill take your pic and draw the actual site onto it so you can see everything thats going.

[mukkjoy]

thanks. i look at this site everyday and its impossible to get a feel for what the plan is. i was wondering if the contractors have been given the full go ahead on it as they just seem to be picking at it since the main demo.