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Old October 9th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #2381
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Interesting. I thought PESA already had off-the-shelf models that ran on metre-gauge tracks.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #2382
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OMSK METRO

October 8, 2012. The beginning of construction of the second tunnel between stations "Zarechnaya" ("Beyond the River") and "Kristall" ("Crystal"), which planned to be opened in 2015-2016:

Mostovik

Metro workers:

Mostovik

TBM "Om" ("Lovat"):

Mostovik
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Old October 9th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #2383
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OMSK METRO

Metro workers:

Mostovik
Gentlemen, you are engaged in a pointless pursuit of something that will not be achieved in your lifetime. Why are you smiling?
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Old October 9th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #2384
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Gentlemen, you are engaged in a pointless pursuit of something that will not be achieved in your lifetime. Why are you smiling?
They laugh at you
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Old October 9th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #2385
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I am just sorry for them. I hope Omsk Metro will open soon, but with this particular system, there is every reason to be pessimistic.

I wonder if any of them ever thinks about whether a city like Omsk even needs a metro.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #2386
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There is no reasonable need for metro Omsk. Modern metrotram, like in Volgograd, but designed for modern 45m-60m long bidirectional vehicles.
Volgograd is the exceptional example of getting the same for a much, much less. Volgograd metrotram costed only a fraction, compared to other small metro-style systems in CIS cities with 1..2 mln. population, but transports even more ppl, that some of them.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #2387
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I am just sorry for them. I hope Omsk Metro will open soon, but with this particular system, there is every reason to be pessimistic.
Why so pessimistic? They have stable funding, own modern TBM (unlike some Metro cities in Russia like Novosibirsk and Samara). They already completely built one Metro station and Metro bridge. In beginning of next year, will be completed all tunnels between the three future stations. After this, it will be necessary to build two tunnels to the next "Sobornaya" ("Cathedral") Metro station and ways from "Sobornaya" to the future Metro depot. Thus, Omsk Metro will be opened - if not in 2016, then at least sometime in 2020s.

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I wonder if any of them ever thinks about whether a city like Omsk even needs a metro.
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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
There is no reasonable need for metro Omsk. Modern metrotram, like in Volgograd, but designed for modern 45m-60m long bidirectional vehicles.
Volgograd is the exceptional example of getting the same for a much, much less. Volgograd metrotram costed only a fraction, compared to other small metro-style systems in CIS cities with 1..2 mln. population, but transports even more ppl, that some of them.
Frankly, I do not see much difference. What is Metrotram (in particular, in Volgograd)? It's few underground Metrotram stations in the dense city center and ground-level tramlines in the outskirts.

What they plan to do in Omsk according to the new project? Almost same thing - four underground Metro stations with short platforms (60 meters) + already completed Metro bridge during the first stage of construction (until 2016) and later - construction of ground-level Metrolines (like Filyovskaya Line 4 in Moscow).
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Old October 9th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #2388
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Yes, but the third rail make everything more complicated - it need's greater ROW, it can't use existing tram lines in the old city, it can't have level crossings.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #2389
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Yes, but the third rail make everything more complicated - it need's greater ROW.
Is it so big problem in the outskirts?

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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
...it can't use existing tram lines in the old city, it can't have level crossings.
In these cases, the meaning of term "rapid transport" will be lost.

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Originally Posted by XAN_ View Post
There is no reasonable need for metro Omsk. Modern metrotram, like in Volgograd, but designed for modern 45m-60m long bidirectional vehicles.
Volgograd is the exceptional example of getting the same for a much, much less. Volgograd metrotram costed only a fraction, compared to other small metro-style systems in CIS cities with 1..2 mln. population, but transports even more ppl, that some of them.
In the Russian realities, the example of Volgograd Metrotram proves the opposite thing. Its relative number of passenger traffic (annual ridership / length of line) is no higher than almost in all Russian Metro systems. Moreover, from the opening of Volgograd Metrotram in 1984, its length was extended by only 3.8 kilometers with the three underground stations (it happened last year). This is less than the extension of each of five Russian Metro systems which were opened later - in 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. In addition, there appeared serious difficulties with manufacturing, delivering and maintenance of bidirectional tramcars which were made by special order. At this moment, two of planned tramcars were not delivered due to financial problems of Petersburg Tram Mechanical Factory. Therefore, they were forced to introduce new route on the existing line of Volgograd Metrotram.

That's why I think that if the construction of the Metro was launched and continues in few cities, it should be brought to its logical conclusion.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #2390
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AlekseyVT, you forgot to make the glorious announcement that Kazan Aeroexpress is slated to open 12.12.12.

http://kazan.kp.ru/online/news/1262811/
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:41 AM   #2391
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AlekseyVT, you forgot to make the glorious announcement that Kazan Aeroexpress is slated to open 12.12.12.

http://kazan.kp.ru/online/news/1262811/
This is great news! It will save a lot of time for me from the city to the airport.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #2392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
In these cases, the meaning of term "rapid transport" will be lost.
But Volgograd and Kiev Rapid Trams have grade crossings protected by traffic lights - but they are still rapid! If you are really troubled with some intersection - you can ever gate-protect it - https://maps.google.com/?ll=43.57413...,6.07,,0,10.39

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In the Russian realities, the example of Volgograd Metrotram proves the opposite thing. Its relative number of passenger traffic (annual ridership / length of line) is no higher than almost in all Russian Metro systems. Moreover, from the opening of Volgograd Metrotram in 1984, its length was extended by only 3.8 kilometers with the three underground stations (it happened last year). This is less than the extension of each of five Russian Metro systems which were opened later - in 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. In addition, there appeared serious difficulties with manufacturing, delivering and maintenance of bidirectional tramcars which were made by special order. At this moment, two of planned tramcars were not delivered due to financial problems of Petersburg Tram Mechanical Factory. Therefore, they were forced to introduce new route on the existing line of Volgograd Metrotram.

That's why I think that if the construction of the Metro was launched and continues in few cities, it should be brought to its logical conclusion.
But the cost of each km are tremendously low! Initially they only payed full price for 3 separated stations (and than for 3 more). So it's tolerable that risership is lower per km, as long as it's higher for each $ invested.

Concerning PTMZ story - it's a really sad story about bad management and, probably, bribery (?). Nowadays there is a lot of biderectional trams made in Russia and CIS, and they don't suck as PTMZ do. BKM, UTVZ, Alstom and etc. But it's really aren't problem anymore.

So in a medium-sized cities like Omsk - if there is a posibility to go for LRt - I say "Do it!". Nowadays LRT is the only way to get a new rapid transit system for most cities in CIS. Dreams of metro a great, but they mean that any city that will start construction now will get a full city wide system sometime near 2050. Which is sad.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #2393
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So in a medium-sized cities like Omsk - if there is a posibility to go for LRt - I say "Do it!". Nowadays LRT is the only way to get a new rapid transit system for most cities in CIS. Dreams of metro a great, but they mean that any city that will start construction now will get a full city wide system sometime near 2050. Which is sad.
Well, I completely agree that in our times the construction of the new Russian Metro systems from scratch is expensive and futile thing. And in this case the construction of the LRT is the best solution to transport problems.

But if Metro systems are already working for some years, they should to develop own Metro network. If Omsk Metro is half built and they have all the financial resources and necessary equipment to complete the work - what is the point to stop half way and spend money on conservation or re-equipment of completed sections for LRT?
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Old October 10th, 2012, 06:43 PM   #2394
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The metro construction in Russia in very slow exepct the Moscow and Spb
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Old October 10th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #2395
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The metro construction in Russia in very slow exepct the Moscow and Spb
Thank you, captain obvious

But at least, pace of construction of Kazan Metro is comparable with Saint Petersburg.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #2396
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Originally Posted by AlekseyVT View Post
Well, I completely agree that in our times the construction of the new Russian Metro systems from scratch is expensive and futile thing. And in this case the construction of the LRT is the best solution to transport problems.

But if Metro systems are already working for some years, they should to develop own Metro network. If Omsk Metro is half built and they have all the financial resources and necessary equipment to complete the work - what is the point to stop half way and spend money on conservation or re-equipment of completed sections for LRT?
AFAIK, it's like 1\3 complete and there is no metro-specific equipment (rails, electrical, depot, etc.) at the moment, so the system is still flexible.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #2397
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ST. PETERSBURG METRO

October 4, 2012. The construction of the trade store "Continent" where will be located vestibule of the Metro station "Bukharestskaya" ("Bucharest"), which planned to be opened in the end of December 2012:
This name is likely to be changed because the Russian Foreign Ministry is against naming any stations after capitals of countries that are not friendly with Russia.

http://www.rg.ru/2012/10/10/metro.html
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Аргументация российского высокопоставленного дипломата вполне убедительна. Он напомнил, что Бухарест столица Румынии - государства, которое в настоящий момент крайне трудно назвать дружеским по отношению к России. В письме Денисова также обращается внимание питерских чиновников на явно антироссийскую позицию официального Бухареста по вопросу размещения элементов американской ПРО в Европе, на деструктивную активность Румынии на постсоветском пространстве, а также на поддержку со стороны румынского руководства режима Михаила Саакашвили в Грузии.
Because Romania is not against placing American anti-missile defense in Europe, because Romania has "destructive activity" in the post-Soviet space and because Romania supports the Saakashvili regime, Russian MID is against the station being named Bucharest Station.
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Old October 11th, 2012, 12:37 AM   #2398
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This name is likely to be changed because the Russian Foreign Ministry is against naming any stations after capitals of countries that are not friendly with Russia.

Because Romania is not against placing American anti-missile defense in Europe, because Romania has "destructive activity" in the post-Soviet space and because Romania supports the Saakashvili regime, Russian MID is against the station being named Bucharest Station.
Although I don't like foreign hostile policy of Romanian state (in particular, almost all Russia-related names were renamed in Romanian cities during last two decades), these requirements look absurd and stupid. Such complexes are a sign of the small Eastern European states, but it should not be in Russia.

Foreign Ministry unhappy with naming St. Petersburg metro station after Bucharest

by Evgeniya Chaykovskaya at 09/10/2012 15:57

St. Petersburg authorities are ready to defy the Foreign Ministry and keep the name "Bukharestskaya" for a new metro station, despite stagnating relations with Romania.

Foreign Ministry unhappy

The Russian Foreign Ministry is unhappy with plans to name a new Metro station in St. Petersburg after the capital of a NATO member-state, "Russkaya Sluzhba Novostei" reported on Tuesday.

"Bukharestskaya", named after the Romanian capital is set to open in the Kupchino area in December.

A NATO member state that is not very friendly with Russia is not a fitting inspiration for a Metro station name, First Deputy Foreign Minister Andrey Denisov wrote in a letter to the St. Petersburg authorities, asking them to rename the station.

The letter stresses Romania’s position on U.S. missile defense system in Europe, its destructive influence on the territory of the former Soviet Union and support of Mikheil Saakashvili in Georgia.

It is the first time that the Foreign Ministry has asked St. Petersburg authorities to rename something.

The name remains the same

However, the toponymic commission did not agree to change the name of the station, "Ekho Peterburga" reported.

Commission member and St. Petersburg Deputy Governor Vasily Kichedzhi read out excerpts from the letter at the meeting, as well as a letter from local residents.

They also want a different name and suggested naming the park near the metro "Park Sodruzhestva" ("Commonwealth Park"), symbolizing the peace established in 1945. They think the station could also be called that too.

The head of the Frunzensky District suggested renaming "Bukharestskaya" at the beginning of summer. The official proposed several options: "Yekaterininskaya" (for Catherine the Great), "Studencheskaya" (for students), "Profsoyuznaya" (for trade unions), "Institut Profsoyuzov" (institute of trade unions).

“We must listen to the Foreign Ministry’s opinion, we cannot wait any longer with the naming, the station must open in December,” Kichedzhi said.

The toponymic commission, however, did not like the name "Sodruzhestvo" ("Commonwealth"), as it is too “abstract” and is not connected to any particular place.

They stressed that they were guided by professional duty and not political motives, and refused to rename the station.


The government has the final say

Kichedzhi stressed that the final say belongs to the St. Petersburg government.

“The law says: the government makes the decision, and the toponymic commission makes recommendations. I will report to the Governor, and we will make a decision that will satisfy everyone. It is very important for me that there are no additional expenditures from renaming,” the Deputy Governor said.

The government will discuss the issue next week.

What’s in a name?

The name "Bukharestskaya" was decided on in Soviet times, when Romania was a member of the Eastern Bloc.

The station has been planned since then, and the tunnel was even partly dug, but then the work stopped until mid-2000s. The station will be on the Line 5, between "Volkovskaya" ("Volkovo") and "Mezhdunarodnaya" ("International").

In 2009, then-Governor Valentina Matvienko supported the renaming of the station into "Metrostroyevskaya" ("Metro construction"), to commemorate 70 years of the "Metro construction" company in St. Petersburg, but activists were against it.

"Alma-Atinskaya" station in Moscow

In Moscow, the "Alma-Atinskaya" Metro station name was also protested, but by local residents. It is located in Brateyevo District, which the locals say is a unique name in Russia, and should be used for the station too, but their pleas were ignored.

Moscow Mayor Sergey Sobyanin, however, decided to name it "Alma-Atinskaya" ("Almaty"), for the former capital and most populous city of Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan, in turn, will name on their station "Moskovskaya" ("Moscow").

The station is set to open in December.

"The Moscow News"
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Old October 11th, 2012, 01:44 AM   #2399
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Since Russia has a habit of making enemies out of friends in recent years, I'm trying to locate the letters urging Moscow metro to rename Prazhskaya metro station and Bratislavskaya metro station and Rizhskaya metro station and urging Moscow city council to rename Varshavskoye Shosse and Gruzinskaya Ploshchad'
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Old October 11th, 2012, 02:10 AM   #2400
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Since Russia has a habit of making enemies out of friends in recent years...
About what new "enemies" (former "friends") you are talking?

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I'm trying to locate the letters urging Moscow metro to rename Prazhskaya metro station and Bratislavskaya metro station and Rizhskaya metro station and urging Moscow city council to rename Varshavskoye Shosse and Gruzinskaya Ploshchad'
These examples clearly show that we are not engaged renamings for geopolitical purposes. Unlike our "friends" in Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Poland, Georgia, etc. Feel the difference! Stop spread your political BS!
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