daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old March 30th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #2501
Eerik
Registered User
 
Eerik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Washington DC - Baltimore - Tallinn
Posts: 1,847
Likes (Received): 205

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
There are still pelnty of blighted blocks on the West Side that could accomodate the arena. The old Hoschild Kohn Warehouse block, now partially used by Ageon, at Howard and Franklin would be a good location. The site is mostly cleared and it is large. The Light rail goes directly by it, and it is easily walkable from the State Center And Lexington Market subway stations.

It would truly fill the hole between Mt. Vernon, the lower West Side, and Antique Row. Everyone, including the Mt. Vernon restaurants, would benefit. Architectually, the area is similar to Chinatown in DC and I could envision the same type of development happening around it.
I guess my bias is for an arena in the heart of the city. Programmatically I'm thinking high density, more along the lines of a Madison Square Garden, but design-wise something much better.

The Midtown lot is about the same size as the current arena footprint...

Last edited by Eerik; March 30th, 2007 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Changed my mind...
Eerik no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old March 30th, 2007, 08:00 PM   #2502
Eerik
Registered User
 
Eerik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Washington DC - Baltimore - Tallinn
Posts: 1,847
Likes (Received): 205

…also, in DC, most of the local restaurants went belly-up. Irony is the (then) MCI Center was supposed to bring them more business. I guess the “new business” didn’t like what old Chinatown had to offer. The majorities of the restaurants went belly-up and now are non-Asian, and chain oriented establishments.
Eerik no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 08:22 PM   #2503
Maudibjr
Indeed
 
Maudibjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,265
Likes (Received): 132

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Of course, not closing streets pretty much argues against any arena site in the CBD. The streetless site bounded by Russell, Bush, Monroe and the RR tracks looks big enough though ... and it's diagonally across the street from Ray's development.

Prefer the CBD, but would like to see the Arena replaced however and wherever.
That area is a healthy industrial park, I doubt the city would want to disturb that.

I totally agree a new areana should be downtown area. I also agree that the current one cannot be closed in the interm. So where to put it?

How about in the port covington area directly south of the I-95?

I guess we should feel blessed that our CBD is not surronded by a sea of parking lots, that could easily hold an arena, like the new one KC is building or Charlotte
Maudibjr no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 08:37 PM   #2504
scottbbfm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 329
Likes (Received): 22

absolutely 30 floors....we both made valid and sound points, no personal attacks necessary!

On the arena issue...its a tough one. The Verizon Center/China town area of DC should definitely be a model. I love how the arena blends in with the area. We need to remember though, it took a while after the arena was built for the area to really come around.
scottbbfm no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 09:04 PM   #2505
jamie_hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,544
Likes (Received): 814

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maudibjr View Post
That area [bounded by Russell, Bush, Monroe and the RR tracks] is a healthy industrial park, I doubt the city would want to disturb that.

I totally agree a new areana should be downtown area. I also agree that the current one cannot be closed in the interm. So where to put it?

How about in the port covington area directly south of the I-95?
And lose our WalMart? ;-)

Seriously, Port Covington is underperforming, but potential is there for a major mixed-use project in the decades to come. Maybe an arena could be part of it.

Am not qualified to judge whether Carroll-Camden is healthy or not, but note that the city relo-ed many businesses (Park Sausages, B. Green, etc.), a steam plant, and a school (Diggs-Johnson) to build Camden Yards.

Again, though: if it can go at Baltimore and Howard, let's do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottbbfm View Post
On the arena issue...its a tough one. The Verizon Center/China town area of DC should definitely be a model. I love how the arena blends in with the area. We need to remember though, it took a while after the arena was built for the area to really come around.
Right. But also remember that the Verizon (nee MCI) Center moved into the neighborhood with established NBA and NHL teams as tenants. That's a guaranteed 60-70 dates with an average of 15,000 hungry and thirsty reasonably well-heeled fans descending on the neighborhood--even before playoffs. Presently, the Arena has 15 events booked between now and the end of the year. None will draw even close to 15,000 (obviously, since the Arena's capacity is 11-12,000). Soooo ... the impact of the Arena on our CBD won't be quite the same as down in Chinatown.

Wonder if we could snag the NBA L.A. Clippers. Then, we could resurrect the old AHL Baltimore Clippers fight song: "Go you Balti-MORE CLIP-pers ..."

Last edited by jamie_hunt; March 30th, 2007 at 10:34 PM.
jamie_hunt no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #2506
jamie_hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,544
Likes (Received): 814

Quote:
Originally Posted by folsomfanatic View Post
i had a friend that worked at T Rowe. supposedly they had the option to move to harbor point, but the big guys didn't want to work on a "toxic landfill", or something to that regard....
Good data. Maybe once the National Lacrosse Center is built at Harbor Point, they'll reconsider. They have a fair number of lacrosse players on their staff (or maybe that's Legg Mason). Could see them in the building in the top left corner of the site, right across the inlet from the new LM tower.

Last edited by jamie_hunt; March 30th, 2007 at 10:11 PM.
jamie_hunt no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 10:12 PM   #2507
Balmurfan
Registered User
 
Balmurfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,077
Likes (Received): 308

A while back I wrote the MSA regarding a new arena and this is the response I was giving

January 8th, 2007

Dear Steve,
Thank you so much for your inquiry.

The Baltimore Arena question has been the subject of a great deal of study. We expect to release the findings in the first quarter of 2007.

This feasibility study will include an evaluation of the current facility, which includes review of systems and structure, whether the current facility could be retrofitted or redesigned, and use of the current site for new arena.

Please be assured that all decision makers involved share your belief that Baltimore deserves a first class facility with a greater capacity than the current arena now holds.

Thank you again for writing, and look for the next step in the process to be public in a few months.

Gary McGuigan
Project Executive
Maryland Stadium Authority
(410) 333-1560 p
(410) 333-1888 f
Balmurfan no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #2508
jamie_hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,544
Likes (Received): 814

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmurfan View Post
I wrote the MSA regarding a new arena and this is the response I was given

January 8th, 2007

Dear Steve,
Thank you so much for your inquiry.

The Baltimore Arena question has been the subject of a great deal of study. We expect to release the findings in the first quarter of 2007. [snip]
Cool. Wonder if we should start an arena thread. Probably driving forumers who could care less about it nuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
The old Hoschild Kohn Warehouse block, now partially used by Aegon, at Howard and Franklin would be a good location.
Weinberg Foundation owns that lot on the NW corner of Howard and Franklin. Maybe could condemn and acquire, but make sure the ink's dry on the Superblock deal first.

Last edited by jamie_hunt; March 30th, 2007 at 10:31 PM.
jamie_hunt no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 10:34 PM   #2509
Brian21
Registered User
 
Brian21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 917
Likes (Received): 0

Sighs....if only Peter Fillat's convention center hotel project was chosen, then we wouldn't be having this conversation because a new arena would be built right at camden yards
__________________
Brian
Brian21 no está en línea  
Old March 30th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #2510
scottbbfm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 329
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Good data. Maybe once the National Lacrosse Center is built at Harbor Point, they'll reconsider. They have a fair number of lacrosse players on their staff (or maybe that's Legg Mason). Could see them in the building in the top left corner of the site, right across the inlet from the new LM tower.

possibly....but T. Rowe signed a long-term lease for 100 E Pratt pretty recently, and do we really want to lose both major tenants from the CBD??
Also, and this is solely my opinion, I feel Harbor point is a lot further off the beaten path than Harbor East. One road in and one road out...and lastly and above all else, people like Pratt Street!
scottbbfm no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 12:34 AM   #2511
Interestedreader
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 118
Likes (Received): 0

[Wonder if we could snag the NBA L.A. Clippers. Then, we could resurrect the old AHL Baltimore Clippers fight song: "Go you Balti-MORE CLIP-pers ..."[/QUOTE]

I don't believe Baltimore would support, consistently, a NBA franchise and Abe Pollin would use his last breath to prevent that from happening.
Interestedreader no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 02:54 AM   #2512
PeterSmith
Moderator
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 5,853
Likes (Received): 2654

Wada, I believe this is the GoogleEarth overhead of the arena sight you've proposed, yes?

PeterSmith no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 03:34 AM   #2513
B'moreOrioles
B'MORE LIKE CHARM CITY
 
B'moreOrioles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Wonder if we could snag the NBA L.A. Clippers. Then, we could resurrect the old AHL Baltimore Clippers fight song: "Go you Balti-MORE CLIP-pers ..."
We'd better turn our attention towards the Memphis Grizzles. Hehehehehe. I don't think they're playing too well nowadays.
B'moreOrioles no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 03:38 AM   #2514
B'moreOrioles
B'MORE LIKE CHARM CITY
 
B'moreOrioles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore View Post
The Harbor Point spot sounds nice, but it sounds like they're trying to build as less as possible there because of the chemical reasons. The Canton spot would actually be perfect, but if I things my way, I would definitely choose the CDB over them all. But the reality is where would you put it? There's no space anywhere.
Harbor Point? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do you realize the nightmare in traffic it would cause? Alot of people don't realize this, but Harbor Point only has one inlet in, one inlet out. Traffic would be herendous.

Last edited by B'moreOrioles; March 31st, 2007 at 04:01 AM.
B'moreOrioles no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 03:40 AM   #2515
MasonsInquiries
B-MORE than u strive for!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baltimore/Columbia, Md.
Posts: 2,257
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian21 View Post
Sighs....if only Peter Fillat's convention center hotel project was chosen, then we wouldn't be having this conversation because a new arena would be built right at camden yards
precisely.

well-said, and this is the bottom line of this conversation. i think we're all starting to realize the BDC chose the WRONG convention center hotel plan.
MasonsInquiries no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 04:07 AM   #2516
B'moreOrioles
B'MORE LIKE CHARM CITY
 
B'moreOrioles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 220
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
Wada, I believe this is the GoogleEarth overhead of the arena sight you've proposed, yes?

Bingo. It would work!!
B'moreOrioles no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 04:22 AM   #2517
southbalto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 473
Likes (Received): 10

documentary on channel 25....right now



the story of 95 and baltiomre city
southbalto no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 04:23 AM   #2518
baltimoreisbest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 416
Likes (Received): 69

Uhh, you wouldn't want to build an arena on the Centre Street/Park Ave Site. The old H/K building is now offices for Aegon. In fact, acquiring and converting that facility was critical to keeping Aegon in town, and it was a major deal that the BDC helped to hammer out. So, no you would not want an arena there.

Might I suggest the lot where the Mayfair is?
baltimoreisbest no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 04:32 AM   #2519
southbalto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 473
Likes (Received): 10

The arena debate is popular....we beat this to hell every month and a half or so.



I don't see it happening for a long long time.
southbalto no está en línea  
Old March 31st, 2007, 05:10 AM   #2520
Eerik
Registered User
 
Eerik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Washington DC - Baltimore - Tallinn
Posts: 1,847
Likes (Received): 205

The Centre Street/Park Ave Site is too small. Slightly smaller than the building envelope for the current arena. While the Mayfair lot may be nothing to look at now, I still think there is potential for the area to rebound. I’d hate to see yet more senseless demolition. Plus, a new arena there would require new garages to support the facility. To me, it only makes more sense to keep the arena closer to the central business district, where existing parking garages can be utilized during off-peak hours.

I too would have preferred to see the Hackerman proposal accepted for the new convention center hotel, but in terms of future growth and possible expansion for the center itself, the two lots chosen make most sense.

As for an arena on Lots A and B, several studies, already in the early 90s indicated they would be too small (i.e. narrow) for a new arena.

I still think the existing site is the best location, but only if they max out the building program and sink the structure. Expensive, but it would work wonderfully. Should the Maryland Stadium Authority manage such a project, partial funding could be paid for by selling air rights above the structure, for new residential and commercial space.

Think big here: an arena directly connected with mass transit. Upwards of three to four towers in the 20-40-storey range, including a total of 3 million square feet of built out space. A very urban structure that would connect the Stadium District to the south with Westside development to the north, and the central business district with University Center.

As a development, it could provide new luster to the old downtown, which is sorely needed...
Eerik no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu