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Old April 11th, 2007, 05:06 PM   #2781
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I am somewhat disappointed by Hale's thoughts.

Maybe I shouldn't be but I am.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 05:34 PM   #2782
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I'm very disappointed in this arena news to be honest.

First of all, the arena really should be closer to downtown and our other sports complexes. Boston St. would be a logistical nightmare for traffic, not to mention that there would need to be mass transit built out to there as well, and that is a whole other undertaking.

Second, the seating capacity of 12-15k is an absolute joke. Anything less than 15k is unacceptable and is just a lateral move. If Hale wants a piece of the arena biz but can't afford to build bigger on his own, then he should partner up with someone who can make that happen.

With a larger arena, and even without an NBA/NHL team in the area, Baltimore could still host:

a REAL Arena Football team (the ones that broadcast on ABC, not the joke league we have now)
minor league hockey (successful here already with The Skipjacks)
NCAA Tournament regionals
The X-Games
An annual Terps b-ball game against a high caliber opponent (say Georgetown?)
Political Conventions in election years
College basketball pre-season tournaments (Coaches vs. Cancer, NIT, BB&T Classic)
Much bigger concert acts
Major wrestling PPV events

to name just a few.

My point is - just b/c there's not a great chance Baltimore will ever get an NBA/NHL team, is NO reason not to build an arena that is large enough to accomodate countless other big events that we're unable to host now.

If we really want to be a major league city, this MUST be done.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 06:16 PM   #2783
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What can we all do about this? Because it is my understanding that Hale is a good business man and a fair man(from what I've gathered). Would emails to him or his associates work, or perhaps to the politicians that he said he spoke with "Sheila Dixon", Barbara Mikulski? The city needs to stop short changing itself and do something big, because Baltimore may not be, but certaily can be viewed as a big city. It just has to start with the people in power.

StevenW any suggestions on how we can make an impact?
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Old April 11th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #2784
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Lemme guess. Gilbane is going to build the new arena in Canton.

You guys have short memories. Baltimore has never supported and never will support a NHL/NBA team.. That is the perception around the league anyway. Hale is just being realistic. Look what happened in Hartford. This isn't a "Field of Dreams" Build it and they will come.
Besides, after the hard time Peter Angelos gave the Nationals when DC wanted a baseball team do you really think that the owners of the Caps and Wizards are just going to sit back and let Baltimore get a team.
Hale is a shrewd businessman. He is not going to invest big $$ on an arena without a comittment from either the NBA or the NHL.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #2785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander21 View Post
With a larger arena, and even without an NBA/NHL team in the area, Baltimore could still host:

a REAL Arena Football team (the ones that broadcast on ABC, not the joke league we have now)
minor league hockey (successful here already with The Skipjacks)
NCAA Tournament regionals
The X-Games
An annual Terps b-ball game against a high caliber opponent (say Georgetown?)
Political Conventions in election years
College basketball pre-season tournaments (Coaches vs. Cancer, NIT, BB&T Classic)
Much bigger concert acts
Major wrestling PPV events

to name just a few.
And don't forget the Battle of Baltimore Tournament (Loyola, Morgan, Towson, Coppin, UMBC).
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Old April 11th, 2007, 06:49 PM   #2786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionDave View Post
Hale is a shrewd businessman. He is not going to invest big $$ on an arena without a comittment from either the NBA or the NHL.
Well if that's the case, he shouldn't built nothing at all. Building this new arena would be nothing more than a repeated mistake. It should be a 18000+ arena or bust!! Hale sucks, Dave and you know it. We can't keep shortchanging ourselves like this. I do believe we could support a NBA team here. Maybe not NHL, but definitely NBA.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #2787
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He is basically building it for his own team. The circus, concerts and the Ice Capades are just the icing on the cake.

If Baltimore really supported an NBA team then the Bullets would still be here.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 07:12 PM   #2788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
I just sent ther following to both addresses:

Hello:

I am writing to find out more information regarding the progress of your 10 Inner Harbor development in downtown Baltimore. The Baltimore Business Journal and Baltimore Sun both indicated that design changes are being made and would be released to the public. Have I missed those renderings or are changes still being made? Is the building still on target to be 59 stories tall?

I’d appreciate any insight you can offer into this development.

Thanking you in advance,
waj0527
This is the response I got back today:

Warren, This is a big project and there are design changes required because of the on going process of massing out the available FAR, adjusting to market demand and construction efficiencies. Changes must be presented to the ciity prior to making them public. The building remains 700+/- feet high and the overall project is larger then priviously planned.

Best,

John
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Old April 11th, 2007, 07:16 PM   #2789
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no NBA or NHL

it's ok to have a 15-18,000 seat arena with no pro team to play in it. in fact, it's actually appealing to other events because they don't have to schedule shows and performances around a bazillion basketball or hockey games.

we could also host signature events like:
[LIST][*]NCAA Tournament[*]ACC tournament[*]a couple of wizards games a year[*]NCAA hockey tournament[*]terps games[*]high end concerts----U2, Coldplay, Smashing Pumpkins, jay Z, etc.


We'd be well-positioned between DC and Philly for events that have conflicts in each of these cities. Hershey gets a lot of concerts because it's a central location and more easily booked that the arenas in Philly....
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Old April 11th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #2790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
This is the response I got back today:

The building remains 700+/- feet high and the overall project is larger then priviously planned.
that is excellent news. this development is really going to transform Light Street into a more active space. it suffers right now because most pedestrian traffic is along the Harbor.

I'd kill to see the Lutheran homes along Light be redeveloped with ground floor retail space to serve as a connection to Cross Street Market.

for whatever reason. Light Street just drags...no matter how much people put into it....
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Old April 11th, 2007, 08:19 PM   #2791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
This is the response I got back today:

Warren, This is a big project and there are design changes required because of the on going process of massing out the available FAR, adjusting to market demand and construction efficiencies. Changes must be presented to the ciity prior to making them public. The building remains 700+/- feet high and the overall project is larger then priviously planned.

Best,

John
This is great news indeed!!
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Old April 11th, 2007, 08:33 PM   #2792
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Originally Posted by DemolitionDave View Post
If Baltimore really supported an NBA team then the Bullets would still be here.
Eh. Support for the Baltimore Bullets (1963-1972) was fine, particularly considering that the 1968 riots really soured people on going downtown. Abe Pollin made a strategic move to Landover in 1973 that enabled him to:
1) Lock up the Baltimore and DC markets
2) control the arena in which his NBA and NHL teams were major tenants
3) provide and make money on parking

It's possible Baltimore could've countered with a new arena. A domed stadium at Camden Yards was first proposed around this time.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 09:02 PM   #2793
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I don't think support was the issue. Regardless Baltimore is large enough that we should have a 19,000+ arena. Baltimore is big enough so that it should atleast be in the running for an NBA or NHL team, right now the city can't even be in the considered. Look at some of the sizes of cities that currently have teams. Cleveland, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte are all smaller than Baltimore, and 3 of the 4 support football teams as well as baseball teams. Denver and Oakland ar esmaller cities as well.

You look at the NBA and the same cities in smaller metro areas have hockey teams. Atlanta reappeasr, and Buffalo is on the list as well.

The fact remains Baltimore is the largest city without either an NBA or NHL team. Not only that but people are seriously advocating that we need'nt bother build an arena because a team wouldn't come here. The problem isn't the teams looking for a new home, its Baltimore politicians being decisive and taking action to give Baltimore an arena it can be proud of.Until then Baltimore will remain one of the most underachieving cities in america with regard to entertainment venues.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 09:19 PM   #2794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
This is the response I got back today:

Warren, This is a big project and there are design changes required because of the on going process of massing out the available FAR, adjusting to market demand and construction efficiencies. Changes must be presented to the ciity prior to making them public. The building remains 700+/- feet high and the overall project is larger then priviously planned.

Best,

John
This is outstanding news indeed!!!!!!
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Old April 11th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #2795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
This is the response I got back today:

Warren, This is a big project and there are design changes required because of the on going process of massing out the available FAR, adjusting to market demand and construction efficiencies. Changes must be presented to the ciity prior to making them public. The building remains 700+/- feet high and the overall project is larger then priviously planned.

Best,

John
still sounds shorter than than the original height of '716. nonetheless, i'll take it. i'd be satisfied.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 10:09 PM   #2796
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From MSNBC

Top 10 underrated U.S. cities
Sure, N.Y., Chicago, S.F. are nice, but don't forget these overlooked locales



• Updated: 2 hours, 51 minutes ago
Everyone knows cities like New York, San Francisco, and Chicago are among the best in the U.S., but there are many other fabulous — albeit smaller — American cities that just don't get their fair share of the limelight. Whether their proximity to a bigger city steals their thunder or a recent city makeover remains undiscovered by the masses, the cities on our list are oft-overlooked by even the savviest of travelers. If you're looking to broaden the scope of your trips to include some less-talked-about places with great art scenes, friendly locals, delectable cuisine, and rich history, add one of our ten most underrated cities to your "must-see" list.

1. Baltimore
Native blue crabs seasoned with Old Bay are reason enough to visit Baltimore, but there's much more to experience in this waterfront town. Take, for example, the city's revitalized Inner Harbor area; the upscale neighborhood of Mount Vernon, home to the original Washington Monument; and Harbor East, where a number of hotels and restaurants are opening their doors. Its new, contemporary look aside, you can still discover some 300 years of American history along Baltimore's cobblestone streets — not only was the "Star Spangled Banner" written here, but abolitionist Frederick Douglass lived and worked in the historic waterfront community of Fells Point in the 1830s — and track down the settings for John Waters' films (“Hairspray,” “Pink Flamingos” and “Female Trouble,” among many others, were all shot here). Sports fans will also find no shortage of outlets, since Baltimore is also home to both the Orioles baseball team and Preakness, the second leg of the Triple Crown.

_______________

Some of the other cities mentioned were: Houston, Pittsburgh, Sacremento, Portland (Me), Kansas City.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #2797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoreborn1 View Post
I don't think support was the issue. Regardless Baltimore is large enough that we should have a 19,000+ arena. Baltimore is big enough so that it should atleast be in the running for an NBA or NHL team, right now the city can't even be in the considered. Look at some of the sizes of cities that currently have teams. Cleveland, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte are all smaller than Baltimore, and 3 of the 4 support football teams as well as baseball teams. Denver and Oakland ar esmaller cities as well.

You look at the NBA and the same cities in smaller metro areas have hockey teams. Atlanta reappeasr, and Buffalo is on the list as well.

The fact remains Baltimore is the largest city without either an NBA or NHL team. Not only that but people are seriously advocating that we need'nt bother build an arena because a team wouldn't come here. The problem isn't the teams looking for a new home, its Baltimore politicians being decisive and taking action to give Baltimore an arena it can be proud of.Until then Baltimore will remain one of the most underachieving cities in america with regard to entertainment venues.
Baltimore is a lot bigger than all of the cities you just mentioned by metro area population, but it also already has a basketball and hockey team, they just play in DC. I'd guess the metro area could support another NBA or NHL team (that plays in Baltimore). We already have the 3rd most pro sports teams of any metro area in the country...
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Old April 11th, 2007, 11:05 PM   #2798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
This is the response I got back today:

Warren, This is a big project and there are design changes required because of the on going process of massing out the available FAR, adjusting to market demand and construction efficiencies. Changes must be presented to the ciity prior to making them public. The building remains 700+/- feet high and the overall project is larger then priviously planned.

Best,

John
Great News! The middle 700ft range would put us taller than Denver, St. Louis, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Cincinnati, Portland, Tampa and San Antonio. If we go higher than 727 we're higher than Detroit and over 792 and we're higher than Boston and Minneapolis.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 11:11 PM   #2799
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... over 792 and we're higher than Boston and Minneapolis.
Boston's Mayor Menino is pushing for a thousand-footer. Need to raise our sights. And raze a site.
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Old April 11th, 2007, 11:45 PM   #2800
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Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Boston's Mayor Menino is pushing for a thousand-footer. Need to raise our sights. And raze a site.
what a crafty play on words.
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