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Old April 12th, 2007, 06:04 PM   #2821
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Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
I think the Design Collective Master Plan for the Westside avoids tall highrises and those with points. I'd have to go back and look at it, but I tend to recall structures taller than about 20 stories being discouraged. I kinda agree.
Pretty sure (copy's at home) the mostly-Weinberg-funded DC plan reflected a sense of what the market would bear and available footprints rather than aesthetics, but, yes, a midrise neighborhood is most desirable there. Not sure to what extent DC's plan still guides thinking about the neighborhood. Their map (which is still on their website) shows Redwood rebuilt between Howard and Hopkins Place (i.e., the arena site), with a park the size of University Square to the north, and a USFG/Legg Mason building-sized footprint to the south.

Somewhat OT: Can't help thinking Chera's going to get kicked to the curb or bow out, giving Weinberg and Cordish control of the whole Superblock.

Really, really OT: Wonder if a "prediction market" would work--or even be allowed--on this forum.

Back on topic: take a look at the retailers they're looking at and you'll realize this is Grid Properties proposal with more residential. Not that that's a bad thing. Grid did Harlem USA on 125th Street in NYC.

Last edited by jamie_hunt; April 12th, 2007 at 06:42 PM.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #2822
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If ever there was a Baltimore neighborhood that SHOULD have highrises sprinkled in it, it's the West Side of downtown. There are many structures that will be preserved in this neighborhood, so a highrise here and there will have views that won't be blocked by another structure being constructed directly next to it. Furthermore, this area was the commercial hub of Baltimore for more than 100 years. The buildings constructed early in the last century were indeed the highrises of their time. Hutzlers and Stewarts were considered to be monster building when they were built. Imagine - a 10 story department store.

The only reason height is an issue in Mt. Vernon is because of the Monument and the fact that it is predominately a residential area. There is no Washington Monument in the West Side of Downtown and it is a commercial area, so I say build them.

Where highrises don't belong is directly on the WATERFRONT. This is Urban Planning 101 and it is what was I learned in when I received my degree in Urban Planning and Architecture from the University of Maryland in 1979. And when you visualize this design rule in practice, it makes very good sense.

Look at the many European cities that have lowrise buildings directly on the water and higher buildings behind them to see the benefits. If this rule of good design were followed in Baltimore, you wouldn't have half the comments that so many people from South Baltimore, Canton, and other neighborhoods make in this forum about their views being blocked.

Highrises on the waterfront cut the shoreline off from the rest of the neighborhood and create a visual wall. GOOD PLANNING dictates low or mid-rises directly on the water, stepping back to higher buildings further away. This allows for increased overall density and better all around urban design. The original IH master plan recognized this. It has since been corrupted in the name of keeping companies in town and PURE GREED. It is not an accident that the Inner Harbor was so successful and everything built on the water afterward hasn't been nearly as good.

Last edited by 30 Floors Up; April 12th, 2007 at 10:37 PM.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 07:20 PM   #2823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbane View Post
The portion of Marion Street between Howard and Park will disappear, however the section between Park and Liberty will remain.

I wonder why keeping that small portion, Marion will literally be a 30 foot nubbin of an alley then. Why bother?
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Old April 12th, 2007, 07:41 PM   #2824
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Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
If ever there was a Baltimore neighborhood that SHOULD have highrises sprinkled in it, it's the West Side of downtown.
Supertall on the arena site sounds good. Can't find another site in the West Side that could accommodate something much bigger than 14 stories plus retail plus the structured off-street parking zoning requires for both. Take a look at the strategic plan and see if you can.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 08:13 PM   #2825
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Supertall on the arena site sounds good. Can't find another site in the West Side that could accommodate something much bigger than 14 stories plus retail plus the structured off-street parking zoning requires for both. Take a look at the strategic plan and see if you can.
David Murdoch's plan back in the 80' proposed 4 or 5 30 story towers. The old people will confirm this.

One site that immediately comes to mind is the block directly south of Lexington Market. U of M is in the process of getting a hotel built on part of that site. It remains to be seen how tall it will be.

The air rights above the Lexington Market Subway station, combined with the ugly new low rise shopping center due North is another spot that could support a highrise. The old Hecht Company garage site is a third place that comes to mind. It's almost a block square and is nothing but parking including at ground level. All those sites are as large or larger than the Light Street site Clark controls.

In this town, plans are made to be changed. All of Harbor East was only supposed to contain 12 story buildings if you remember. Then they made an exception for the Marriott. Then they made and exception for the Vue. Then they made and exception for the Legg Mason / Four Seasons complex. So much for master plans.

I would bet money that if Legg Mason wanted to move to Charles and Read Streets in a 40 story tower instead of to Harbor East, that there would be an exception made for that too!

Last edited by 30 Floors Up; April 12th, 2007 at 10:34 PM.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #2826
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Canton building would face number of considerations
Hale interested in E. Baltimore facility
By Kent Baker
Sun reporter
Originally published April 12, 2007
Blast owner Ed Hale, the chairman and chief executive officer of 1st Mariner Bank, would love to see a new arena built in East Baltimore near his headquarters.

Whether that objective will be realized hinges on a multitude of factors.





"Many difficult decisions have to be made, notably funding and location," said Kirby Fowler, president of the Downtown Partnership, one of a number of organizations working on a two-part study examining the state of 1st Mariner Arena that is scheduled to be released next month. "We have to keep all the options open."

The Maryland Stadium Authority commissioned the study of 1st Mariner nearly three years ago to determine whether it would be more feasible to upgrade the building or replace it. Hale's idea to build in Canton is not a part of that report.

In an interview with The Examiner on Tuesday, Hale said "five years out" was his timetable for a 12,000- to 15,000-seat arena on a 28-acre plot currently owned by Exxon near the Boston Street exit of Interstate 95.

"This is very premature, very preliminary," Hale said yesterday. "I've got a long way to go. I'd have to buy the property, clean it up, work on access and egress off I-95. But I've been talking about building an arena for years."

He is very concerned that if a decision is made to rebuild on the current site, his team would have no suitable alternative place in which to play, a problem that also would be faced by concerts and other entertainment vehicles that use 1st Mariner.

Hale does not believe a larger arena is viable for Baltimore because of what he called "territorial restrictions" that could be imposed by Washington regarding potential NHL and/or NBA franchises.

A consensus must be reached about whether it is cost-prohibitive to retrofit a number of fixtures at 1st Mariner or rebuild entirely. Another item being considered is transportation to and from any new arena because mass transit is already in place downtown.

"Where the city and state stand on ownership is to be determined," Fowler said. "Funding and location are the next two steps.

"We're certainly keeping Ed Hale in the loop. He's got a very successful franchise we don't want to disrupt. A new arena, wherever it is, ought to accommodate the Blast."

"If a new arena is to be built, other locations will have to be given consideration," said Don Fry, president of the Greater Baltimore Committee. "Ed is a major stakeholder in this, and Canton is a location that will be examined."

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Old April 12th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #2827
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I don't know. I guess I wouldn't mind the new arena being in Canton if it wounds up having 18000 plus seats. But according to Hale we know that will never happen.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 09:25 PM   #2828
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Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
So much for master plans.
But the West Side has a strate-e-e-gic plan. ;-)

Seriously ... no argument here: all the sites you mentioned could probably hold 30-story buildings and all should definitely be more thoroughly developed. The architect for the row of stores on Eutaw north of the subway station tried unsuccessfully to get his client to at least put a second story on to frame the street better, but the client couldn't see where anyone would rent the office space it would have provided. Wouldn't be surprised to see David Hillman of Southern Management redevelop the parking garage at Eutaw and Fayette, but only after he's able to secure parking for residents of the Atrium (nee Hecht's) somewhere else nearby. As for what the U of M will do at Paca and Fayette, guess we'll know soon.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 01:16 AM   #2829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maudibjr View Post
I wonder why keeping that small portion, Marion will literally be a 30 foot nubbin of an alley then. Why bother?
Lexington Square Partner is only developing Site B of the Superblock, which includes the block bounded by Lexington, Park, Liberty, and Marion. However, it excludes the small block bounded by Marion, Park, Liberty, and Fayette. Therefore, I don't think that the developer would have "jurisdiction" (for lack of better terms) over that portion of Marion Street. Furthermore, I think that Lexington Sq. Partners would like to use that portion of Marion Street as a conduit from Liberty Street to the garage facing Park Ave: both Park Ave. and Liberty St. are one way roads, so that solution would permit parkers to turn south without having to go around a block. The only problem is that Marion Street doesn't align perfectly with the entrance to the proposed garage.



I took photos of the boards showing the renderings and the schematic plans today. I will post them soon
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Old April 13th, 2007, 01:20 AM   #2830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Not sure to what extent DC's plan still guides thinking about the neighborhood. Their map (which is still on their website) shows Redwood rebuilt between Howard and Hopkins Place (i.e., the arena site), with a park the size of University Square to the north, and a USFG/Legg Mason building-sized footprint to the south.
That's a pretty long-term goal, and it's presented that way in the strategic plan as well. I think the intent is still there though.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 02:33 AM   #2831
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I totally agree that the superblock development should have taller buildings. There are already tall buildings in that area, like the old BG&E tower west of the superblock and the twin 28-30 story Charles Towers which are a few blocks north of the superblock. I think a couple of 25 story buildings would fit in really well there.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 02:42 AM   #2832
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Panel approves Legg tower, with reservations
Baltimore Business Journal - 5:17 PM EDT Thursday, April 12, 2007by Daniel J. SernovitzStaff

Baltimore City's urban design panel reluctantly gave its blessing Thursday afternoon to the proposed Legg Mason Tower, a 550,000-square-foot building at Inner Harbor East that the Baltimore-based money manager hopes to move into by the summer of 2009.

Members of the city's Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel said they had several concerns about some of the project's details, including how far it imposes onto the waterfront promenade, but were confident those issues would be addressed before building construction begins.


As proposed, H & S Properties Development Corp. and Struever Bros. Eccles & Rouse hope to build a pair of high-rise towers at Harbor East, a 38-acre mixed use development on the edge of Fells Point and east of the city's downtown core. The second tower would include a Four Seasons hotel and additional residential units.

Several members of the panel said they felt the developers need to give more thought to the significance of the project, and its marquee tenants, to convey a sense of how much they mean to Baltimore and its economy. Some of those touches included making the entrance to the buildings more architecturally significant.

"I think about the importance of Legg Mason, and I think of the importance of the Four Seasons, and there's nothing about this that announces the importance of those two" companies, Planning Department Director Doug McCouch said.

The developers will need to return to the panel for final design approval of the buildings, but the panel voted unanimously to approve schematic plans for the project. Their vote sends the development to the city's planning commission, which will need to consider legislation that will ultimately be sent to the City Council for approval.

Michael Beatty, president of H&S, said after the meeting that he agreed with many of the panel's suggestions and will try to incorporate them into the project's final design.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #2833
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OT but found this. what part of bmore co is in this msa? Or did they get it wrong? after all vmore co is in the bmore msa. if this area is included in the bmore msa next census we're at 3.2 mil.

York-Hanover area is top spot for growth
Census Bureas said the area is the fastest growing in the Northeast region, but local officials said they.
By SEAN ADKINS
Daily Record/Sunday News
Article Launched: 04/06/2007 06:34:49 AM EDT


At bottom: · AT A GLANCE ·
Apr 6, 2007 — The York-Hanover Metropolitan Statistical Area now ranks as the fastest-growing metro area in the Northeast region, according to data released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.
That area includes a large swath of York County, as well as sections of Adams County and Baltimore County in Maryland.

So what does that mean?

That's what Felicia Dell, director of the York County Planning Commission, wants to know.

"This data just doesn't go far enough in providing us detailed information of where the increase is coming from," she said. "I mean, where did they come from? Did they come from Maryland? Did they come from the Harrisburg area or even from within?"

Dell's office, an affiliate agency of the Pennsylvania State Data Center, folds census numbers into much of its work, which ranges from preparing community block grant applications to long-range transportation projects.

Reports in the past have shown why people have been moved to York County.

For one, the county has a roadway system


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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that connects it to Harrisburg and Baltimore. The county also has a robust economy compared with other locations within the state, and it possesses a healthy mix of rural, urban and suburban areas, Dell said.
"York County has always grown at a faster pace than the rest of the state," Dell said. "(The York-Hanover Metropolitan Statistical Area data) kind of confirms what we have been seeing in our land development submittals and traffic patterns."


AT A GLANCE
· What is a metropolitan statistical area?

Locations within a metropolitan statistical area share similar economical, transportation, commercial and residential growth characteristics.

For example, portions of northern and eastern York County are included in other statistical areas such as Harrisburg/Carlisle and Lancaster.


top

408,182: Number of citizens in the York-Hanover Metropolitan Statistical Area in 2005

416,322: Number of citizens in that statistical area in 2006

2: Percent increase between the two years

1.3: Percent increase for the second-fastest growing metro area in the Northeast region

17.7: Percentage of the largest population increase in recent history for York County

0: Number of times York County lost population since 1950
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Old April 13th, 2007, 03:14 AM   #2834
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interesting...
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Old April 13th, 2007, 05:37 AM   #2835
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the paperboy finally threw the baltimore sun to my door and i got a chance to see the rendering of one of the superblock towers in the business section. it's a nice-looking tower. it looks like there's penthouses on the top two floors. the building itself looks like mixture of the eden apartments, the centerpoint tower, and the UMB residential tower on fayette street.

many of the buildings lined along lexington street (well, maybe ALL of 'em) are preserved.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 06:03 AM   #2836
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I just posted the renderings, elevations, and plans here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=462729
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Old April 13th, 2007, 06:15 AM   #2837
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From The Times April 13, 2007

Transatlantic dogfight looms as Ryanair promises £7 fare to US
David Robertson, Business Correspondent

The bargain flights common in Europe yesterday looked set to spread across the Atlantic, as the budget airlines announced plans to challenge the dominance of British Airways and Virgin Atlantic.

Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary promised £7 tickets to the US and Southwest Airlines, the American pioneer of no-frills travel, signalled its intention to start flying to the UK.

The prospect of cheap flights from London to New York will revive memories of Freddie Laker’s ultimately doomed challenge to the flag carriers 30 years ago. However, liberalisation of air travel through last month’s “open skies” agreement promises to revolutionise transatlantic travel.

Ryanair, Europe’s biggest low-cost carrier, yesterday unveiled plans to offer flights to Baltimore, Rhode Island and New York for as little as 10-12 euros each way, but the service is likely to face stiff competition. The Times understands that Southwest Airlines is considering going international, while Jet Blue, another US low-cost airline, is also thought to be keen to join the fray.

Other entrants to route have failed to get off the ground
If the plans are carried out, prices for passengers would be slashed and a much wider choice of service would be available, from the top end offered by BA and Virgin, to aircraft on which everything from food to entertainment costs extra.

The opportunity to launch low-cost fares across the Atlantic has been made possible by the “open skies” agreement, which will lift the restrictions on where airlines can fly. Only BA, Virgin, American and United are currently allowed to fly from Heathrow to the US. From next year this will be opened to all carriers. Technology is also making budget flights possible as the next generation of aircraft will be at least 20 per cent more fuel efficient and less expensive to maintain.

Mr O’Leary, Ryanair’s chief executive, said he was looking to buy between 30 and 50 long-haul jets. These would be either the Boeing 787 or Airbus A350, neither of which are yet flying. He is proposing to launch a company, wholly owned by Ryanair, which will start flying within four years to up to half a dozen US cities. Ticket prices will start at 10-12 euros but the company will use the typical low-cost model of increasing the price as more tickets are sold.

This would challenge the already competitive market for economy passengers between the UK and the US, potentially forcing BA and Virgin to offer similar promotional fares.

BA and Virgin are also experiencing competition in business class, which accounts for most of their profits. Silverjet, Maxjet and Eos have all begun operating business-class-only flights for substantially lower prices.

However, the real threat to all these operators will be if Southwest launches international flights, possibly through its code-share partner ATA. Southwest said: “It is definitely something we are looking at.” The prospect of America’s and Europe’s largest budget airlines going head to head could mean flights to New York costing less than the journey to the airport.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle1647610.ece

---
These guys are looking at 2011 apparently. There's going to be fierce competition for these flights for sure...and BWI is in a pretty good spot.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 06:23 AM   #2838
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Quote:
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I just posted the renderings, elevations, and plans here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=462729
thanx, urbane.

i just changed my mind. i don't like it. the height of the towers destroy the ENTIRE project. thank God for preliminary stages in a project. maybe the developers will consider increasing the height. atleast bring 'em up to 20 floors apiece.

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Old April 13th, 2007, 07:01 AM   #2839
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It will be great for BWI if Southwest and Ryanair start flying to London! Baltimore is already one of Southwest's biggest hubs, so we could see a major expansion of International flights into BWI. Plus, it looks like Ryanair is poised to become a major player in international flights, so having them here already will certainly give us a boost.

A couple weeks ago someone posted an article about how Baltimore isn't recognized internationally because of the paucity of international flights into BWI. I bet this open skies deal generates a windfall for the airport and for Baltimore.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 11:59 AM   #2840
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The super-block proposal isn't that super to me. It's ok at best, IMO.
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