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Old April 18th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #2981
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The question Dave has asked of "Who are these people?" is one that I have asked on occassion before as well. The Baltimore I grew up in just didn't seem like the kind of place that attracted millionaires, but being a millionaire and affording a million dollar condo isn't as elite as the name seems to imply. We live in a country where the richer keep getting richer and greedier, and there are literally millions of people who can afford a $1 million+ condos. They can't all live in New York and LA.
The Ritz condos aren't the only million dollar condos in the city either. I believe many of the units in Harbor East have also reached seven digits, as will some of the units in the Pinnacle. And while I have yet to hear anyone say, "I'm moving to the Ritz," I'm sure they're out there, just like they are in any other city.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 10:00 PM   #2982
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Report: Baltimore is second-tier city with first-tier prices
Baltimore Business Journal - 2:43 PM EDT Wednesday, April 18, 2007by Julekha DashStaff

The city's main tourism agency and the Baltimore Convention Center should report to the same board of directors, according to a new audit by an outside tourism consultant.

The report decried the separation of the Baltimore Area Convention and Visitors Association and the convention center itself in marketing the city as a meeting spot. It also criticized Baltimore for being a second-tier city with first-tier pricing and said meeting planners had concerns about crime and panhandlers.


The report, unveiled Wednesday at a news conference at Sports Legends at Camden Yards, was created by Frontline Inc., a Mercer Island, Wash., consulting firm. The firm, led by David Brudney and David R. Evans, was hired by BACVA this year to assess the city's strengths and weaknesses through interviews with meeting planners, tourism leaders and hotel executives.

Other recommendations from Frontline include:

Providing an additional $1.5 million funding for BACVA, up from its current $8.8 million;
Devoting more money to marketing to gays, Hispanics, seniors and other niche groups;
Creating a new "wow" attraction to draw more visitors;
Providing better transportation options to get around the city.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #2983
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Thats justthe point. You'd be surpirised who is a 'millionaire' these days. There are millions of them infact.

A million dollar condo in Baltimore is a huge deal. A million dollar townhouse in San Fransisco is merely 'pretty nice.'

Its all about perspective.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 10:33 PM   #2984
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Dave I asked you eariler in this thread about where you got the figure that UA was looking for 400k of space.
i also recall asking him the same exact question a couple of pages back. we need to see facts. evidence. articles. anything.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #2985
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I spent some time in Philadelphia yesterday and was really impressed. The south side is a great area and their downtown continues to boom, especially with the new Comcast building going up.

Baltimore just wants to be a big city but will continue to fail if 23-story Towers in Canton are shunned. Umm, folks, it's a city there is going to be traffic. If you don't want traffic, move to Garrett County.

The Silo point project is really moving along amazingly quickly and could be a really great addition to our skyline when completed. I really hope our talls start to get going a bit here. We have five or 6 proposed 50-60 story buildings and we haven't seen anything with any of this for a year or so now. Pretty frustrating.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 11:37 PM   #2986
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I agree Philly is awesome. I was there this past October when Comcast was only halfway up. I'm gonna try to get there again this summer.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 11:40 PM   #2987
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i agree.... you'd be amazed at how much money is in b-more. in my professional life, i deal with these people ona daily basis. trust me...atheletes do NOT make the big bucks. the big bucks is in buisness. the leggs. the masons. the roache's. the bill jews and kevin planks of the world are out there and they are recession proof. i am in 16,000 sq ft houses everyday and there are a lot of them around. one of the athletes i deal with who moved from the dallas area commented to me once that ..."baltimore has money." dallas and atlanta have debt...these people have money." lets also not forget how perochial this city is. i mean jeeze...the calvert family still has reunions every few years where half of the family flys to ireland or the other half flys here. our state flag is a medieval coat of arms!!!! plenty of cash to fill the ritz.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #2988
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i agree.... you'd be amazed at how much money is in b-more. in my professional life, i deal with these people ona daily basis. trust me...atheletes do NOT make the big bucks. the big bucks is in buisness. the leggs. the masons. the roache's. the bill jews and kevin planks of the world are out there and they are recession proof. i am in 16,000 sq ft houses everyday and there are a lot of them around. one of the athletes i deal with who moved from the dallas area commented to me once that ..."baltimore has money." dallas and atlanta have debt...these people have money." lets also not forget how perochial this city is. i mean jeeze...the calvert family still has reunions every few years where half of the family flys to ireland or the other half flys here. our state flag is a medieval coat of arms!!!! plenty of cash to fill the ritz.
I don't know what you mean by recession proof. If you were around in the early 90s real estate crash you know no one is immune to bankruptcy.

"Dallas and Atlanta have debt...these people have money." Truer words were never spoken. The lifestyle in other parts of the country, especially places like Atlanta where I currently reside , is one of carefree money spending. Marylanders just seem more responsible with their money, and they make more of it anyways. Perhaps it has to do with the state's incredible levels of educational attainment.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 01:43 AM   #2989
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I don't know what you mean by recession proof. If you were around in the early 90s real estate crash you know no one is immune to bankruptcy.

first...i WAS around in the early 90's, and second i didn't claim bankruptcy. in fact, most people ARE immune to bankruptcy. the reason you go bankrupt when a specific sector of the market crashes is because you've invested all of your eggs in that sector. anyone with a correctly balanced portfolio and responsible spending habits is certainly reccession proof. granted, the crash of a sector (especially housing) can effect the entire market. but unless all of your cash is in one investment, in the one bad market sect, you won't go bankrupt. the people who did have trouble in the early 90's were developers and the banks who funded them. thats just part of the risk of real estate.

i forget who said it, but one of our forumers here called to light that well over a trillion dollars are managed within a 2 block stretch of pratt street. don't for a minute think that its all out of town money.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 01:58 AM   #2990
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oh man...everyone is very crabby today! I think we ALL need to try the other side of the bed tomorrow.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 02:03 AM   #2991
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oh man...everyone is very crabby today! I think we ALL need to try the other side of the bed tomorrow.
sorry, not trying to be crabby. actually in a good mood today. its just that i know these people are out there in our fair city.

cheers!

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Old April 19th, 2007, 04:31 AM   #2992
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Quote:
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Inside bits for this group.

You will see something start on Naings site before the Fall (and yes the design has changed, both buildings are beautiful)

ARCWheeler has dropped Stern as the architect on 10 IH, that's why there has been a delay, they have selected a Texas firm to take the place.

Also, calling the Ritz a bust is far from legit (from Dave's comment) they are selling units as soon as they are released and have a waiting list in the 100's of people ready to buy.
In regard to Naing's towers, can you give us a little bit of "detailed" info on them?
Height? Floors?
Design? Crown or no crown?

And, that is interesting news on the architectual change for ArcWheeler. I hope it is designed better.

Thanks for the update.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 05:18 AM   #2993
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Originally Posted by quabex View Post
i agree.... you'd be amazed at how much money is in b-more. in my professional life, i deal with these people ona daily basis. trust me...atheletes do NOT make the big bucks. the big bucks is in buisness. the leggs. the masons. the roache's. the bill jews and kevin planks of the world are out there and they are recession proof. i am in 16,000 sq ft houses everyday and there are a lot of them around. one of the athletes i deal with who moved from the dallas area commented to me once that ..."baltimore has money." dallas and atlanta have debt...these people have money." lets also not forget how perochial this city is. i mean jeeze...the calvert family still has reunions every few years where half of the family flys to ireland or the other half flys here. our state flag is a medieval coat of arms!!!! plenty of cash to fill the ritz.
While I have never had money myself, I have often found myself around people who do because of accidents of geography. I've always found it interesting that "Old Baltimore" money is not as flamboyant as it might be. There are families still descended from colonial times that have held on to their money, invested conservatively and lived beneath their means for centuries now. When they want to spend, they can do it well. Places like the Ritz can be appealing when the romance of property and horses becomes a burden (i.e., getting old). I'm not all that surprised that the Ritz may sell well because there hasn't been anything like that in downtown Baltimore since the days of huge Mt Vernon townhouses.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 05:25 AM   #2994
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I spent some time in Philadelphia yesterday and was really impressed. The south side is a great area and their downtown continues to boom, especially with the new Comcast building going up.

Baltimore just wants to be a big city but will continue to fail if 23-story Towers in Canton are shunned. Umm, folks, it's a city there is going to be traffic. If you don't want traffic, move to Garrett County.
I was up there a few weeks ago for the King Tut exhibit, did some walking around and was really impressed that downtown has really developed a critical mass and looks good. The same thing is happening here although I don't think we will ever be as big...we're just starting from different points. Philadelphia has similar fights like the Icon thing, every city does. It's just part of the natural process of people protecting what they see as their interests. For decades nothing in Philly could be taller than City Hall and there are still plenty of neighborhoods where you can't think about building tall. I don't think that the Icon will mean much in the larger scheme of things. If anything, it's an indication that people have the means to organize and have concern about their neighborhood.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 05:29 AM   #2995
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Interesting conversation about wealth…

All I have to say is that Baltimore does have a significant share of blue blood scattered throughout the area. Baltimore wealth traditionally has been extremely conservative and not flashy by any means. Therefore, new developments like the Ritz Carlton, and Four Seasons would have no appeal: too ostentatious.

As for the trillion dollars managed along Pratt Street, trust me…the majority of that capital is based outside the region.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 05:33 AM   #2996
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I was up there a few weeks ago for the King Tut exhibit, did some walking around and was really impressed that downtown has really developed a critical mass and looks good. The same thing is happening here although I don't think we will ever be as big...we're just starting from different points. Philadelphia has similar fights like the Icon thing, every city does. It's just part of the natural process of people protecting what they see as their interests. For decades nothing in Philly could be taller than City Hall and there are still plenty of neighborhoods where you can't think about building tall. I don't think that the Icon will mean much in the larger scheme of things. If anything, it's an indication that people have the means to organize and have concern about their neighborhood.
Good point. While it was another generation altogether, it was still a form of NIMBY-ism that prevented “the highway” from being built through Canton, Fells Point and Federal Hill.

I think just about EVERYONE here would say it was a good thing the highway was never built.

So, in a sense, aren’t we all NIMBY’s?
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Old April 19th, 2007, 05:41 AM   #2997
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Good point. While it was another generation altogether, it was still a form of NIMBY-ism that prevented “the highway” from being built through Canton, Fells Point and Federal Hill.

I think just about EVERYONE here would say it was a good thing the highway was never built.

So, in a sense, aren’t we all NIMBY’s?
Exactly. It's one of those questions about just whose Ox is being gored. One man's NIMBY is the other's neighborhood protector. Many of Baltimore's best old areas have been preserved by militant NIMBYISM for decades. Imagine trying to build something big in Guilford, Roland Park, Ruxton, Homeland, etc. One might have different views about the "rightness" of NIMBYISM, but it's hard to argue that it hasn't been successful at keeping these places desirable.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 09:36 AM   #2998
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For decades nothing in Philly could be taller than City Hall and there are still plenty of neighborhoods where you can't think about building tall.
Just to be technical, you could build taller than City Hall; it was just a gentleman's agreement that dissuaded so many developers from doing so until the early 1980s.

Of course, in any city there will be neighborhoods where it is innapropriate to construct tall buildings.
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Old April 19th, 2007, 10:51 AM   #2999
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Building a highway thru a city neighborhood is a little bit different than one 23 story tower on a two acre lot. That just my opinion
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Old April 19th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #3000
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Building a highway thru a city neighborhood is a little bit different than one 23 story tower on a two acre lot. That just my opinion
I completely agree. If you don't want development, don't live in a city. As some one else said, go to Garrett County. This definitely applies to the people of HoCo as well.

#3000...ha!
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