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Old May 10th, 2007, 09:17 PM   #3481
rxsoccer
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Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
Come on, Nate. You know better than to think a mid-rise proposal can compete for our attention with 60 story towers

In reality though, the news about the Brexton and the Waxter Center is pretty exciting. We should seriously just have a thread dedicated exclusively to projects by Naing. He's all over the city.

I like how the developer of the Waxter Center project seems genuinely concerned about the fit of his building in Mt. Vernon. I'd love to get a building that is truly deserving of being in Mt. Vernon. Is 14 stories too tall though? How tall was that tower that was proposed for the carriage houses a few months back?
I can't believe he bought that building for $750K!!!! Are you kidding me??? Hell, if I could afford to, I would buy it and rehab into my own personal castle!
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Old May 10th, 2007, 09:44 PM   #3482
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hey 30 stories/wada...

what is your affinity for the terminal warehouse? I know its a historical structure, not sure why although it was mentioned in this forum at somepoint. Could you refresh me?

Would you be a proponant of converting the warehouse to lofts? The self-storage doesn't really bring down the neighborhood, but it certainly doesn't bring it up!

Seeing that I live on that block, I'm kind of skeptical a significant building could fit between the terminal warehouse and 222.

The empty lot across the street is interesting...doesn't the Jones Falls run under there...creating some engineering issues? However, there was one of those notice of zoning changes signs on that property a while ago, not sure what the city has in mind for that.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:13 PM   #3483
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The Terminal Warehouse reminds me a lot of the B&O Tobacco Warehouse in Fells Point. They were built about the same time. I think it is a great candidate for conversion into residences. I know it looks ugly in photographs, but when you are next to it and see the cut stone and 3-foot thick brick walls, it has a real architectural beauty about it. If it were cleaned and rehabbed, it would be quite a beautiful structure.

At one time, the whole Jones Falls Valley, from City Hall up to Penn Station, was the industrial "liver" (can't use heart because the port was that) of Baltimore. The Ma&Pa (North Central) railroad ended there and there was a large passenger station where the Sun Papers building used to be. This is just about the only building left from that era. All the others were demolished for prisons, I-83, and parking lots. Those businesses were very instrumental in the growth of the city. At the time it was built (it is actually 2 buildings), Baltimore was the 3rd or 4th largest city in the country. Hammerjacks is actually older than the Terminal structure. Hammerjacks was built in 1865, the Terminal in 1893.

The Jones Falls is directly under the expressway, not under the parking lot across the street. I'd rather see a historical building saved and a parking lot built on, then loose yet another piece of history for a garage. Naing, in my book, has no track record in Baltimore. For all I now, he could be another Clark.

Commerce Place is on a smaller footprint than the area between the Terminal Building and 222 Saratoga. Originally, Naing proposed to demolish 222 Saratoga, the garage next to it, and Hammerjacks. I guess he changed his mind. Between Hammerjacks, and the garage next door to it, there is plenty of room for a large tower.

But all this aside, I simply like the building.

http://www.termcorp.com/comp-scrapbook.html

http://www.portofbaltimore300.org/history.htm

1706-1789
Trade begins in the natural harbor area of today’s Port of Baltimore.

1829-1893
The growth of the Baltimore & Ohio (B&O) Railroad plays a major role in Baltimore’s emergence as a world-class port.

1917-1994
Baltimore is the second-largest seaport in the United States for waterborne commerce.

2000 - Present
The Port of Baltimore celebrates its 300th birthday.

1706 - 1789
Trade begins in the natural harbor area of today’s Port of Baltimore.

Colonial legislators designate the area near Fort McHenry as a Port of Entry for Maryland’s tobacco trade with England.

Fells Point, the deepest part of the natural harbor, evolves into a leading colonial shipbuilding center.

The city of Baltimore is established, and trade increases; fabric mills are built on the Jones Falls and wharves, warehouses, and counting-houses sprang up. Goods from China, such as tea and silk, began arriving into Baltimore.

The Patapsco River Valley, called the cradle of Maryland’s industrial revolution, supports the development of the Port of Baltimore.

The sleek and maneuverable Clipper ships, which would immortalize Baltimore in shipbuilding lore and enhance the Port’s reputation, become more popular. Today, a Clipper ship is depicted on the seal of the Port of Baltimore.

1829 - 1893
Alexander Brown arrives from Ireland and founds one of the world’s foremost investment houses. His son George acquired the Brown’s Wharf complex in 1840.

The Chasseur merchant vessel is built. Captained by Thomas Boyle, it becomes famous during the War of 1812. Baltimore becomes famous for its schooners and clippers.

Baltimore becomes the third largest city in the U.S., its growth driven by the multiplier effect of the Port’s expanding maritime commerce.

California Gold Rush; orders pour into Baltimore shipyards for fast ships to make the voyage to California. Baltimore emerges as a national leader in canned goods. Pioneers moving West carry provisions in cans.

The Association of Maryland Pilots is formed. Bay pilots guide vessels along the Chesapeake.

Coffee ships, built specifically for the coffee trade with Brazil, become even more successful immediately following the Civil War. Coffee warehouses jam Thames Street in Fell’s Point.

Civil War – Maryland has strategic value as a shipbuilding and transportation hub during the conflict, and Union forces mount cannon atop Federal Hill to guard the city of Baltimore and its valuable harbor.

Immigration – The German Lloyd company begins regular steam travel to Baltimore, bringing tens of thousands of eastern and southern European immigrants into the United States through Locust Point.

Railroad – In the decades following the Civil War, the growth of the Baltimore & Ohio (B&O) Railroad helps to make Baltimore the sixth largest port in the world.

Terminal Trucking is established when Terminal Warehouse Company is formed by a subsidiary of Pennsylvania Rail Division, North Central Railroad.

1917 - 1994

Schooners – Four and six-masted schooners, among the last of the working sailing vessels, are built for coastal trade. The Maryland Skipjack, a single-masted boat built around this time, is used for oyster dredging. It would be the last commercial sailing fleet in the United States.

Rukert Terminals, specializing in salt, metals, ores, and fertilizers, is established by William G. Norman “Cap” Rukert.

Baltimore is ranked as the second-largest seaport in the U.S. for waterborne commerce.

The Maryland General Assembly creates the Maryland Port Authority (MPA) and begins development of Dundalk Marine Terminal on the site of a former airfield.

Dundalk Marine Terminal opens for business. Automobiles, its first commodity, drive its success.

Containers – Sea-Land begins its new container service at Dundalk.

Locust Point – The port authority takes a 40-year lease on the B&O Locust Point piers. A $30 million reconstruction program begins. The MPA purchases both Southside and North Locust Point.

Maryland Port Administration becomes part of the Maryland Department of Transportation.

Dundalk Marine Terminal Expansion – The $21.7 million expansion includes the purchase of four container cranes and development of two new berths.
Inner Harbor waterfront project begins as a partnership of the city and private industry.

Fairfield Auto Terminal opens. The terminal is constructed by the MPA, and jointly opened with Toyota Motor Sales, USA.

Hart-Miller Island Project – Using innovative approaches for handling dredged materials, the MPA completes an award-winning beneficial use project in the Upper Bay.

Seagirt Marine Terminal opens. Seagirt is built on material dredged from the Fort McHenry Tunnel construction project. The terminal is among the most efficient and productive container terminals in the U.S.

“Port Fest” – a celebration of maritime history and growth is co-sponsored by the MPA and private partners. Port Fest was one of several continuing port community events during the 1990’s.

The Terminal Corporation, a firm started by the Menzies family in 1893, celebrates its 100th anniversary.

Seagirt Marine Terminal sparks a technological revolution, which moves port operations from clipboard to keyboard-based. Computerized gate complexes, hand-held scanners, Electronic Data Interchange, and other advances are instituted.

2000 - Present
Dundalk Marine Terminal, a 570-acre terminal, which serves as the Port’s general workhorse, celebrates 40 years of service.

Wallenius Wilhelmsen Americas Region makes Baltimore its North Atlantic shipping hub for Roll On Roll Off (Ro/Ro) cargo, signing a 20-year lease with three five-year extensions, the largest shipping deal in the history of the Port.

Rukert Terminals, led by the third and fourth generation of the same families, celebrates its 80th anniversary as one of the mid-Atlantic’s premiere privately owned bulk and break-bulk terminals.

Maryland Port Administration takes access of six high capacity Rubber Tired Gantry (RTG) cranes at Seagirt Marine Terminal, increasing the container capacity at the marine terminal by 50 percent. The MPA now has 12 RTGs.

Along with the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Bureau, the MPA unveiled the latest tool used to combat terrorism and smuggling at U.S. ports. Vehicle and Cargo Inspection Systems (VACIS) machines are non-intrusive detection systems, which quickly and easily inspect the contents of trucks, containers, cargo, and passenger vehicles.

Mercedes-Benz signs a 20-year lease with two 10-year extensions for 104 acres of land at Fairfield Auto Terminal. The agreement assures $61.1 million in revenue over the life of the lease and creates or retains a total of 330 direct jobs. It will also generate $3.6 million in State and local taxes annually.

Mediterranean Shipping Company (MSC) is honored for surpassing previous port statistics by shipping more than 100,000 containers and two million gross tons of cargo along Baltimore’s waterfront.

The Port of Baltimore celebrates its 300th birthday. The Port is marketed aggressively around the world and plays an essential role in Maryland’s economic development.

Last edited by 30 Floors Up; May 10th, 2007 at 11:03 PM.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #3484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rxsoccer View Post
I can't believe he bought that building for $750K!!!! Are you kidding me??? Hell, if I could afford to, I would buy it and rehab into my own personal castle!
It was offered at 1.25mil....

Not too shabby considering the previous owners bought it a few years ago for about 300k-400k.....(I think this is what I remember)
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #3485
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doh!

Last edited by cgunna; May 10th, 2007 at 10:25 PM. Reason: double post
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:54 PM   #3486
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Not sure if this was mentioned, but this would be huge for the area. Baltimore/Washington probably has the highest concentration of alums/fans of Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC) schools than any other city/market in the conference. Imagine how well tickets would sell for this thing. Some people (read: John Swafford, the ACC's Commissioner) may say Baltimore is too cold for a conference championship game in December, but the winner (and the loser) of the championship game would get a trip to a warm weather city for its bowl game anyway.

I think this would be a GREAT idea. Good for the Ravens for going after this again.

-----------------------------------

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/spor...he_ravens.html


ACC football and the Ravens

One of the topics of discussion at the ACC meetings beginning Sunday at Amelia Island in Florida will be the future site of the ACC football championship, and Baltimore wants in.

"We absolutely have interest," Dennis Mannion, senior vice president of business ventures for the Ravens, told Sun reporter Jamison Hensley. "We definitely want to pursue this game again."

A little background:

Jacksonville, Fla., was the site for the past two seasons, and the league exercised its option to hold it there again this year. (The Ravens have pushed for M&T Bank Stadium to host this event since its debut in 2005, and tried to get it again in 2007). The ACC still has the option to return to Jacksonville again in 2008, but beyond that is undecided.

The question is, does Jacksonville become THE site, or does the ACC move it around?

More importantly, would Maryland fans even WANT it so close? What about when Maryland isn't playing in it?

Posted by Heather Dinich on May 9, 2007 at 3:00 PM | Permalink
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Old May 10th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #3487
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Wow lots of news today. News about 300 E Pratt is upsetting but things could turn back the other way there. Great news on Naing moving forward. Hopefully he continues to push 60 stories and we see some renderings. By the way, is 10 IH even alive anymore? I thought the final rendering was due out like a month or so ago?
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Old May 10th, 2007, 11:25 PM   #3488
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All fair opinions 30 floors...

The warehouse discussion brings this question up, but is unrelated and really covers a lot of issues...

do you think a building that for the majority of its life was really not historic, becomes a landmark just because it happens to be the only building remaining from a particular era? In other words, should we make an effort to make sure something is left from each era?
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Old May 11th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #3489
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Originally Posted by scottbbfm View Post
Do you think a building that for the majority of its life was really not historic, becomes a landmark just because it happens to be the only building remaining from a particular era? In other words, should we make an effort to make sure something is left from each era?
Good questions. Yes to both. Under the criteria for listing in the National Register of Historic Places, it's historic (see below), and it's distinctive water tower makes it a landmark, like Nipper the RCA dog on Park Avenue in Mt. Vernon.

Criteria for Evaluation

The quality of significance in American history, architecture, archeology, engineering, and culture is present in districts, sites, buildings, structures, and objects that possess integrity of location, design, setting, materials, workmanship, feeling, and association, and:

A. That are associated with events that have made a significant contribution to the broad patterns of our history; or

B. That are associated with the lives of persons significant in our past; or

C. That embody the distinctive characteristics of a type, period, or method of construction, or that represent the work of a master, or that possess high artistic values, or that represent a significant and distinguishable entity whose components may lack individual distinction; or

D. That have yielded or may be likely to yield, information important in prehistory or history.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 01:22 AM   #3490
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But Park Avenue wasn't Nipper's original home. He sat on top of the RCA Building and was moved to Park Avenue (after a couple of pit stops) when the RCA Building was demolished.
If it's only the water tower that is historic then why can't the owner do the same thing they did with Nipper? Pick it down and put it up on another building.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 04:49 AM   #3491
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Good point. That was done with the Knabe Piano Factory cupola, which was removed from the site of Ravens Stadium and relocated to the Museum of Industry. Larger point, though, is that the entire building is historic, well built and very reusable. Cleaned up, it would lend warmth and character to that stretch of Guilford, which is otherwise defined as a series of structured and surface lots. And to Naing's development, which, so far, doesn't appear to have much. (Granted, it's early in the process). Keep the charm in Charm City!
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Old May 11th, 2007, 05:25 AM   #3492
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Swirnow, HarborView hoping to start 2 more towers this year

Swirnow, HarborView hoping to start 2 more towers this year
JEN DEGREGORIO
Daily Record Business Writer
May 10, 2007 6:30 PM
Developer Richard Swirnow is preparing for the final steps of a real estate project that has transformed 14.5 acres of South Baltimore shoreline from a shipyard to a posh — though often controversial — residential community.

Swirnow and his associates Thursday presented plans to the city planning department for the next phases of their HarborView development, which over the last two decades has filled up land once home to Bethlehem Steel Corp.’s ship repair yard.

Four more residential towers are on the books for property east of Key Highway in the city’s Federal Hill neighborhood, adding to the existing low-rise pier homes, townhouses, apartments and massive HarborView tower that has become an icon for Swirnow’s project.

Swirnow said he expects to break ground before the end of the year on the Pinnacle, a 17-story residential tower that will rise beside the HarborView tower. Designs are also being drawn up for a 26-story residential building just west of the Pinnacle that could be under construction by the end of the year.

Swirnow controls two additional parcels of land south of the HarborView tower and pier homes, where in the next five years he plans to build two more residential towers. About 580 residential units already exist at the HarborView development.

The city’s Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel yesterday discussed plans with Swirnow and his team. Panel members were generally supportive, although they asked Swirnow to try to bring the buildings closer to Key Highway to create a pedestrian-friendly environment. The panel must approve each residential tower separately before Swirnow can build them.

Federal Hill residents spoke against the new buildings, which they feel will obstruct water views and keep neighbors away from the harbor. They also protested a proposed amendment to the area’s urban renewal plan that would allow Swirnow to alter some the plan’s original design constraints. The City Council is currently considering that amendment.

“It’s the same old argument, not in my backyard,” Sonny Morstein, who owns Morstein’s Jewelers in Federal Hill, said during a phone interview Thursday. “I sympathize with the neighbors. ... Views are going to be affected.”

But, he added, “From the business point of view, I suspect we’re going to get some wonderful customers.”

HarborView is perhaps the quintessential example of Baltimore’s metamorphosis from a blue-collar, industrial town to a city driven by tourism and white-collar businesses, such as financial firms and health care companies. But Swirnow said he is simply feeding what he sees as an insatiable appetite for waterfront living.

“There has been a demand, and we’re trying to meet that demand,” he said Thursday.

In an e-mail to The Daily Record yesterday, M.J. “Jay” Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., called Swirnow’s project “a pioneering concept that has been the catalyst for development along Key Highway.”
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Old May 11th, 2007, 05:55 AM   #3493
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Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
The Terminal Warehouse reminds me a lot of the B&O Tobacco Warehouse in Fells Point. They were built about the same time. I think it is a great candidate for conversion into residences. I know it looks ugly in photographs, but when you are next to it and see the cut stone and 3-foot thick brick walls, it has a real architectural beauty about it. If it were cleaned and rehabbed, it would be quite a beautiful structure.

At one time, the whole Jones Falls Valley, from City Hall up to Penn Station, was the industrial "liver" (can't use heart because the port was that) of Baltimore. The Ma&Pa (North Central) railroad ended there and there was a large passenger station where the Sun Papers building used to be. This is just about the only building left from that era.....
There are still lots of old 19th century industrial buildings along the Jones Falls further north, in the area around Hampden, Woodbury and up as far as Mt Washington. Something those buildings offer that the Terminal Warehouse doesn't, however, is context. The original "lay of the land" and lots of old buildings create a real atmospheric look in those Jones Falls Valley lowlands. Given the lack of context, I can't get too concerned about the TW. I wish they could move it up to the area around Clipper Mill or around the Streetcar Museum. Not that I think it would happen, but it would fit in better there and wouldn't be in the "way of progress".
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Old May 11th, 2007, 09:02 AM   #3494
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Originally Posted by DemolitionDave View Post
But Park Avenue wasn't Nipper's original home. He sat on top of the RCA Building and was moved to Park Avenue (after a couple of pit stops) when the RCA Building was demolished.
If it's only the water tower that is historic then why can't the owner do the same thing they did with Nipper? Pick it down and put it up on another building.
We're talking about the Nipper that was on top of the Zamoiski (sp?) warehouse building on Russell St for years, right? I believe it was removed when Zamoiski built their new disribution center on Waterview Ave., and I thought Nipper ended up in someones back yard, and then I thought it went to the Museum of Industry.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:46 AM   #3495
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And it begins...

Somehow I knew all these guys were scared. I just knew not a single one of them had what it took to be the first one to build the one that was promised. Very disapointing.

Developers scale back towering condo plans
Timing feared wrong for 60-story skyscrapers

By Jamie Smith Hopkins
Sun reporter
Originally published May 11, 2007

Condo jitters are rippling through major downtown Baltimore projects on the drawing boards.

A developer planning twin towers that could be the tallest in Baltimore presented designs for the first phase yesterday - a garage with ground-floor retail - but said the towers themselves will have to wait until the condo market picks back up.

Richard W. Naing of RWN Development Group, which is handling the Guilford Avenue project, said he thinks the time wouldn't be ripe to start construction until the many condos in the pipeline have had a chance to sell and regional job growth from the military base restructuring revs up. That could be three to four years, he said.

Meanwhile, his key competition - two other companies planning downtown skyscrapers - said yesterday that they've pulled back on the number of condos they plan to build. New York-based UrbanAmerica now says its proposed Pratt Street building might have 250 condos and 300 hotel rooms, rather than vice versa. Philadelphia-based ARCWheeler, taking another look at plans for its Light Street skyscraper, thinks it will keep the loft and condo component below 200 units instead of nearly 300.

Richmond S. McCoy, president and chief executive of UrbanAmerica, said he remains optimistic because Baltimore's housing market is "outperforming most markets."

But Naing thinks it's not a good time to be selling or building condos.

"It's not just the market, it's also the perception," he said. "Right now the perception is very negative - you couldn't even get financing if you wanted to."

RWN Development, which worked for years in Washington before branching out to Baltimore, said it has not pushed back its timetable. Home sales were already slowing drastically as the company assembled land last year.

It paid about $21 million for three properties: the Saratoga Court Apartments at Saratoga Street and Guilford Avenue, which it plans to keep; the Guilford Avenue parking garage next door; and the Hammerjacks building next to that. It plans to pull down the garage and Hammerjacks.

Naing had said he intended to build two 60-story towers with a mix of condos and apartments. Yesterday he said the skyscrapers might be different heights - one shorter than 60 stories, one taller - and include a hotel.

UrbanAmerica said yesterday that its skyscraper could be as tall as 50 stories, while ARCWheeler said its building would probably have about 55 floors - at a height of between 650 feet and 750 feet.

The Legg Mason building on Light Street is currently Baltimore's tallest, at 35 stories and about 530 feet.

UrbanAmerica, which had planned to start work this year, said it could break ground on its project, between South and Commerce streets, in the first few months of next year.

ARCWheeler thinks groundbreaking on its 2-acre site next to the Hyatt Regency might be a year away, but it needs to settle on the best mix of uses first.

"It's been adjusted to accommodate the shifting market," said John Voneiff, an ARCWheeler partner, noting that the company is considering whether to include office space and more than triple the parking. "It's a big project, and we want it to be right. ... We want a real vertical community."

Baltimore has fewer condo units being actively marketed now than it did a year ago, in part because several projects were dropped, said William Rich, director of the condominium practice at real estate information company Delta Associates in Alexandria, Va. Even so, sales have slowed so much that it would take more than four years to sell them all at the current pace, compared with less than two years this time in 2006, he said.



"If they all were to come online now," Rich said of the skyscraper projects, "that wouldn't bode well."

Naing, who this week bought the Brexton building in Mount Vernon with plans to turn it into a boutique hotel, said he hopes to begin work on the first phase of the Guilford project around August. The 660-space garage would include about 9,000 square feet of retail.



His team presented those plans to the city's Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel yesterday. The most notable element was a "green screen" on the Guilford side of the garage's façade that would have plants twining up and down a metal trellis.

The panel thought the design needed more work in light of the tower that Naing expects to put on top of it one day.

"It's going to be a squat little entrance to a major building," panel member Gary Bowden said.



[email protected]


Ya know, these project can't seem to get off the ground, but all these other mid-rises and shorter high-rises sure can. I've come to the conclusion that no one, (developer), trusts in Baltimore. Thay can give all the excuses they want. This was the last straw for me.

Thanks for believing in Baltimore, developers, thanks.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 11:49 AM   #3496
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In the end, we may get one or two new tallests around the mid to late 500 ft. range and one in the mid to late 600 ft. range. And we'll get a whole lot of 300 footers and shorter. But even those new tallests won't be built and seen in the skyline until another 5 to 6 years from now.

This news is not what I wanted to hear today.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 01:05 PM   #3497
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Have to agree

I do not think construction will start on anything until 2009.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
In the end, we may get one or two new tallests around the mid to late 500 ft. range and one in the mid to late 600 ft. range. And we'll get a whole lot of 300 footers and shorter. But even those new tallests won't be built and seen in the skyline until another 5 to 6 years from now.

This news is not what I wanted to hear today.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 01:23 PM   #3498
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Now is the time when all the "talls" should stick with their plans. By the time the units are ready for occupancy, the housing slump will have passed and the market should be booming again. If they started construction today, it would be 3.5 years before anyone could move in. Christ, it took 2 years to build 21 stories on Water Street and they didn't even have to do foundation work.

With Water Street and the Vue sold out, and the Ritz almost sold out, what condos are left on the market DOWNTOWN? I don't consider Locust Point and Canton to be Downtown. I can only think of a few small projects that don't total 100 units when added together. Apparently some people understand this and are forging ahead.


As reported by BaltoSteve:
Swirnow, HarborView hoping to start 2 more towers this year
Swirnow said he expects to break ground before the end of the year on the Pinnacle, a 17-story residential tower that will rise beside the HarborView tower. Designs are also being drawn up for a 26-story residential building just west of the Pinnacle that could be under construction by the end of the year. “There has been a demand, and we’re trying to meet that demand,” he said Thursday.

I suspect that the longer the talls sit - waiting for the perfect market (which will never be) - the more 20 and 30 story structures we'll get. For some reason the talls don't understand that living 600 feet in the air will sell its self.

~~~~~
Somebody got a new camera and the panaroma lense is on order!

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Old May 11th, 2007, 01:29 PM   #3499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scando View Post
There are still lots of old 19th century industrial buildings along the Jones Falls further north, in the area around Hampden, Woodbury and up as far as Mt Washington. Something those buildings offer that the Terminal Warehouse doesn't, however, is context. The original "lay of the land" and lots of old buildings create a real atmospheric look in those Jones Falls Valley lowlands. Given the lack of context, I can't get too concerned about the TW. I wish they could move it up to the area around Clipper Mill or around the Streetcar Museum. Not that I think it would happen, but it would fit in better there and wouldn't be in the "way of progress".
The City of Baltimore didn't even extend to North Avenue when the mills were built. All of the Mills were OUTSIDE of the city limits. In fact, they were in Baltimore County. Woodbury, Hampden, Dickeyville were all towns that later were swallowed by Baltimore as the city expanded. Those towns came into existence because of water power, not railroads. Some of the mills go back to colonial times and the beginning of the industrial revolution. Different history, different context, different era.



Regardless, it looks as though Naing saw the light. The picture in today's Sun shows the new garage in the middle of the block with the Terminal Building on one side of it and 222 Saratoga on the other. Yea!


Last edited by 30 Floors Up; May 11th, 2007 at 02:52 PM.
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Old May 11th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #3500
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You want tall? Read this and salivate.

http://www.globest.com/news/903_903/.../160546-1.html
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