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Old May 21st, 2007, 06:02 AM   #3741
slake707
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I grew up in South Africa where crime is out of control. In my family almost every one of my cousins has been mugged, my aunt and uncle have been car jacked twice, my other aunt and uncle were murdered, all by people with handguns or shotguns. How is this relevant to this discussion? Well in South Africa both the criminals and the average citizens are well armed.

Arming the citizens does nothing to reduce crime, my family all still live behind large walls with electric fences, and don't feel safe taking their dogs for a walk. Guns allow for a criminal to disconnect themselves from the crime, it is impersonal, and they do not have to confront their victims. Removing all weapons would not happen overnight, but in the long term (50+ years) I can't see a negative in removing this threat. Its takes a lot more within a person to murder someone with a knife, it is very intimate, and personal, with a lot more risk to the criminal.

As for Baltimore, this is a development forum, but the crime, and the perception of the crime do a lot to prevent the city from reaching its full potential and needs to be addressed if the city every wants to fully flourish. I lived in DC for 2 years, and I see a huge difference on how they view crime. Their murder rate was under 200 last year, where not that long ago it was around 500.

The city needs target neighborhoods for redevelopment, and really move in a tipping point style fashion to make it happen. I look at the city's Westside redevelopment, and compare it with the U Street corridor in DC. Both started around the same time and take a look at the current state of each. I know on U street 20 or more (i feel like many more) new restaurants/bars/stores have opened, and hundreds of new condos and apartments. There is a resident presence and is a desirable area to live, it is still not perfect, but crime has taken an almost complete turn around. In the nineties it was an open air drug market. The see the potential on the Baltimore Westside, but feel like it has a long way to go before it is a desired area.

The two areas (U street and the Westside) are very similar.. Where both extremely prominent in there heyday, served by mass transit, close to downtown, character destroyed prior to redevelopment, (or in DC's case, many buildings where destroyed in the riots).. But today the areas feel very different.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 07:00 AM   #3742
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Real statistics show that by having a gun in the house, you are more likely to hurt yourself with your own gun than get robbed/attacked/shot by someone with a gun breaking into your home. Owning a gun for "protection" is not only a misnomer, but is extremely dangerous. That's as much discussion that needs to go on regarding gun laws. When I lived in London, believe me, I felt a lot safer knowing there were few to no guns in criminal hands. Live in a high crime area? Install a security system, iron bars, and a thick, multi-locked door. Common sense = don't bring the danger into your own house.

The murder rate in NYC (with the lowest crime rate among the 10 largest US cities) = 6.6 murders per 100,000. In London (a city without guns) the number is 2.12. You do the math. You'd think this reason would be enough to compel people to give up their guns, but sometimes the government needs to nudge overall society in the right direction.

More statistics: In 2005-2006 there were 50 gun deaths in England and Wales. That is a rate of less than .10 per 100,000 people. In the US in 2004 alone there were over 29,500 gun deaths, a rate of more than 9.8 per 100,000, greater than the entire overall murder rate of NYC.

Another fact: "A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense." A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)

Yet another: "A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present." Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)

A final thought: People who already own guns are the ones who will argue most intensely for their right to own one, though it is actually guilt of ownership that drives their vicious defense of this "right". Unfortunately, while American culture is gravitating toward stricter gun laws, it may still be a few generations off from removing hand guns from civil society for good.

Last edited by pennster; May 21st, 2007 at 07:17 AM.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 01:21 PM   #3743
LilMoeJoeJoe
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More cops in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanofterps View Post
Reducing crime in Balto City, specifically murders maybe the key in getting Westport, Greektown and all the 50-60 towers built.
Take a drive through Owings Mills and count the police cars! It's almost as if half the police force is patroling Owings Mills at any given time. I've always wondered why there are so many cops out here and not in crime ridden neighborhoods where they are really needed. I guess its just a case of the cowardly police force playing it safe.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:15 PM   #3744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMoeJoeJoe View Post
I guess its just a case of the cowardly police force playing it safe.
Ouch. Got three cops in my family, and have known many more. No cowards among 'em.

EVERYONE: Crime has an adverse impact on development. And it sucks.

Noted.

If you have more to add on this subject, please start a new thread, or visit the Baltimore Crime blog: http://baltimorecrime.blogspot.com/
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:39 PM   #3745
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Lots on the docket for this weeks UDARP schedule:


AGENDA
URBAN DESIGN AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW PANEL
May 24, 2007


Meeting # 60



9:30 a.m. - 10:45 a.m. Final – Mercy Hospital Inpatient Tower
New Construction
Developer: Mercy Hospital


10:45 a.m. – 12:30 p.m. Working Session – Westport
Middle Branch -Redevelopment Area
Developer: Turner Development
Architect: Field Operations


12:30 p.m. - 1:30 p.m. LUNCH

Schematic – 25 South Charles Street Renovations
Architect: Gensler


1:30 p.m. – 2:30 p.m. Working Session – Rash Field Redevelopment


2:30 p.m. – 3:30 p.m. HarborView Developement
Key Highway Master Plan Amendments
Developer: HarborView Properties

3:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Schematic – Guilford Avenue Development
Parking Garage
New Construction
Developer: RWN LLC
Architect: Kann and Associates





Next Scheduled Meeting: June 7, 2007.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 03:56 PM   #3746
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Sorry GSOL. Those words are from my playbook. Maybe you should create your own playbook instead of using twisted talking points and misleading stats. Your emotional position sounds wonderful but has no place in the real world.

How about this classic from pennster -

"A final thought: People who already own guns are the ones who will argue most intensely for their right to own one, though it is actually guilt of ownership that drives their vicious defense of this "right". Unfortunately, while American culture is gravitating toward stricter gun laws, it may still be a few generations off from removing hand guns from civil society for good."

Huh? Show me someone who is guilty from owning a gun. Is that the best you could think of? The only guilt I'd have regarding guns is not having one when I needed it.

And the US isn't moving toward stricter gun laws. There are 37 states that issue carry permits and DC's unconstitutional gun law which outlawed gun ownership was struck down recently. Get your facts right.

You guys can spew out stat after stat and study after study. I won't even get into the agenda behind the people operating the research. Let's blame the perps and not the tool. It is a different culture in South Africa. Very lawless. With rampant govt. corruption. Take away senseless urban American drug related killings and the US is a super safe nation. Legal gun owners are some of the most responsible people. We aren't gun toters who go out looking for a fight. We aren't trigger happy bafoons. Go to a gun club or trap or skeet range and see for yourself. Notice how safety is first and there are no exceptions.

There is no better deterrent than strength. Do you think we won the cold war because of diplomacy?
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Old May 21st, 2007, 05:30 PM   #3747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
"A final thought: People who already own guns are the ones who will argue most intensely for their right to own one, though it is actually guilt of ownership that drives their vicious defense of this "right". Unfortunately, while American culture is gravitating toward stricter gun laws, it may still be a few generations off from removing hand guns from civil society for good."
I actually have to balk at this quote too...seems like you aren't really basing this on more than your own feelings. That's ok to do, just make sure to say so. I think many people actually own guns for the same reason you own golf clubs...sport. I agree that gun violence is higher where guns are legal, but I don't think that should make them illegal everywhere. Perhaps we should make cars illegal (might actually push public transportation) and save even more lives every year. One interesting point is that some places (like Canada) have a gun for almost every third person, and yet the gun-related crimes are much lower than here...I personally think the underlying problem to gun-violence is drugs. If you were actually able to stop drug use in a city, I think you would see the gun-violence nearly disappear. I just can't figure out how we would ever do it though.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 05:36 PM   #3748
Maudibjr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMoeJoeJoe View Post
Take a drive through Owings Mills and count the police cars! It's almost as if half the police force is patroling Owings Mills at any given time. I've always wondered why there are so many cops out here and not in crime ridden neighborhoods where they are really needed. I guess its just a case of the cowardly police force playing it safe.
Well Owings Mills is in Baltimore County for starters.......

As far as crime goes, I'm avoiding the gun issue as this is a devolpment site. However, it goes without saying, that crime reduction and city growth go hand-in-hand.

The city's crime is heavily concentrated in the dense older rowhomes that are east and west Baltimore. I'm not sure what it will take to fix it, but if you avoid those areas you avoid most of the crime.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 05:38 PM   #3749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbaltimore View Post
Lots on the docket for this weeks UDARP schedule:


AGENDA
URBAN DESIGN AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW PANEL
May 24
9:30 a.m. - 10:45 a.m. Final – Mercy Hospital Inpatient Tower
New Construction
Developer: Mercy Hospital
Perhaps we will finally find out what the mercy tower will look like!
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Old May 21st, 2007, 08:52 PM   #3750
PeterSmith
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I hope so. I'm anxious to see this one since this project is likely to start sooner than a lot of others. It'll be nice to get some new renderings to look at too.

Slake, where in South Africa are you from? if you don't mind me asking.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 09:28 PM   #3751
Gsol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbaltimore View Post
Lots on the docket for this weeks UDARP schedule:


AGENDA
URBAN DESIGN AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW PANEL
May 24, 2007


Meeting # 60



9:30 a.m. - 10:45 a.m. Final – Mercy Hospital Inpatient Tower
New Construction
Developer: Mercy Hospital


10:45 a.m. – 12:30 p.m. Working Session – Westport
Middle Branch -Redevelopment Area
Developer: Turner Development
Architect: Field Operations


12:30 p.m. - 1:30 p.m. LUNCH

Schematic – 25 South Charles Street Renovations
Architect: Gensler


1:30 p.m. – 2:30 p.m. Working Session – Rash Field Redevelopment


2:30 p.m. – 3:30 p.m. HarborView Developement
Key Highway Master Plan Amendments
Developer: HarborView Properties

3:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Schematic – Guilford Avenue Development
Parking Garage
New Construction
Developer: RWN LLC
Architect: Kann and Associates





Next Scheduled Meeting: June 7, 2007.
Ok Time to move off the gun issue. I started it, but that story really got to me Saturday. Anyway, is anyone able to go to this event and report back? Some interesting topics on the agenda. btw, what is 25 S. Charles St.? Is that the proposed garage and hotel/and or residence we saw some time ago at Charles and Lombard?

Perhaps there will some rendering of these proposals available.

Last edited by Gsol; May 21st, 2007 at 09:34 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 11:05 PM   #3752
sdeclue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMoeJoeJoe View Post
Take a drive through Owings Mills and count the police cars! It's almost as if half the police force is patroling Owings Mills at any given time. I've always wondered why there are so many cops out here and not in crime ridden neighborhoods where they are really needed. I guess its just a case of the cowardly police force playing it safe.
I don't live up there so I haven't seen all those cop cars but I can tell you some areas of Owings Mills are not very nice and that because the metro runs up there, it brings in a lot of the city rift raft who cause problems around the mall area.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 11:07 PM   #3753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore View Post
We can't have everything in the city Sixty stories. This is better than what is there now. I'm happy with what is being proposed.
I understand what you are saying, but could we at least have like 1 60, 1 45, a couple 30's and a few 15-20's over there? It just looks weird that it's gonna be one huge tower with like 2 very short towers and then rowhouses.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 11:35 PM   #3754
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Of course...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdeclue View Post
I don't live up there so I haven't seen all those cop cars but I can tell you some areas of Owings Mills are not very nice and that because the metro runs up there, it brings in a lot of the city rift raft who cause problems around the mall area.
Everyone knows that all 'rift raft' is from the city. Its common knowledge that Owings Mills is a 'rift raft' free zone so naturally any problems can be attributed to wandering city folk.

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Old May 21st, 2007, 11:40 PM   #3755
pfd103
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On a lighter note...anyone need a houseboat? probably the most affordable water-front housing in Baltimore.

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Old May 22nd, 2007, 01:21 AM   #3756
MasonsInquiries
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 01:24 AM   #3757
MasonsInquiries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgunna View Post
Everyone knows that all 'rift raft' is from the city.
this isn't hardly true. this is a false generalization. there's parts of woodlawn, randallstown, owings mills, dundalk and glen burnie that are so bad, i would rather be in the city.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 04:52 AM   #3758
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Right over the line in Pennsyltucky there are places that are so bad I would rather be in the City.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 05:15 AM   #3759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMoeJoeJoe View Post
Take a drive through Owings Mills and count the police cars! It's almost as if half the police force is patroling Owings Mills at any given time. I've always wondered why there are so many cops out here and not in crime ridden neighborhoods where they are really needed. I guess its just a case of the cowardly police force playing it safe.
It's worth noting that Owings Mills is in Baltimore county, not in the city where the crime ridden neighborhoods are. In addition, police are deployed based on assignments; they don't just go somewhere to eat donuts because it's a good place to hide out. If you see a lot of them around OM, it's because the commanders think there is something there worth watching.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 03:46 PM   #3760
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I'm a bit shocked that development news in the city is as slow as it is. I feel like that Herman's Hermits song. Somethin´ tells me I´m in for something good.
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