daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools
Old May 29th, 2007, 05:45 AM   #3861
MasonsInquiries
B-MORE than u strive for!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baltimore/Columbia, Md.
Posts: 2,257
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
I don't think this has been posted before. This is a rendering of a 12 story building called Harbour's Edge that will be part of Canton Crossing. It is designed by WBCM Architects and Arium Architects, the same guys who did the 1st Mariner Tower, I think (as if that wasn't obvious by just looking at this building). According to the website I found this on, it is slated for a 2008 completion date. The site also stated that Canton Crossing currently has plans for three 28 story condo towers (although I'm pretty sure this site was created long before Ed Hale came public with his vision to triple the size of Canton Crossing.)



According to Canton Crossing's official website, this project will include 470,000 sq.ft. of office and retail space.
that's a nice-lookin' building. too bad it's not gonna' be finished by 2008.
MasonsInquiries no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old May 29th, 2007, 05:45 AM   #3862
scando
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 5,467
Likes (Received): 455

Quote:
Originally Posted by CU_rak View Post
Good for the Jays, I had hoped they would beat Duke (especially after they robbed the Big Red of its rightful place in the championship).

In other news, I saw this online ranking of "green" cities, which seems to think that Baltimore is doing a pretty darn good job. Though I am surprised to see that we scored so high on public transit and city commuting. Is it because of the buses? I have always thought that Baltimore public transit would be considered inadequate without an expansion of the subway.


Baltimore: A Port Town Reinventing Itself

Top 15 Cities 1. Portland, OR 2. San Francisco 3. Seattle 4. Chicago 5. Oakland 6. New York 7. Boston 8. Philadelphia 9. Denver 10. Minneapolis 11. Baltimore 12. Washington, DC 13. Sacramento 14. Austin 15. Honolulu

http://www.sustainlane.com/us-city-r.../baltimore.jsp
An interesting article. I do, however, always wonder about the perception that "identity as a working-class port town is undergoing a transformation, as downtown is revitalized, empty lots are converted to community gardens, and shipping centers are transformed into waterfront residential neighborhoods." It's been a while since I heard anybody around here refer to us as a working class port town. I think the change to a white collar service town started around 1960. I guess old ideas die hard
scando no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #3863
LilMoeJoeJoe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 262
Likes (Received): 20

Pratt Street regains status.

http://baltimore.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2007/05/28/story3.html?i=84325&b=1180324800^1467773
LilMoeJoeJoe no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 12:27 PM   #3864
jeremai
Grade I Listed
 
jeremai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Baltimore, USA / Wales, UK
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 122

I am unsure what to think about the news below. I don't think any urbanist would question the value of small shops for walkability and eyes on the street. However, if they are hubs of crime contributing to Baltimore's woes, are they really a good thing? What do others think?
Bill targets corner stores
City official seeks to prevent retail use of space near houses
By Jill Rosen
Sun reporter
Originally published May 28, 2007

Before cars and before supermarkets, Baltimore depended on its corner stores, conveniently tucked into rowhouse neighborhoods so that groceries and incidentals were rarely more than footsteps away.

Though the city shops differently now and officials generally try to keep residential areas commerce-free, the shells of those former stores endure, vexing some, tickling the entrepreneurial imaginations of others.

City Councilwoman Mary Pat Clarke, whose district includes communities where the vacant storefronts are considered crime magnets, has introduced legislation that would prevent people from trying to reinvigorate former store space in residential areas.

"Things have changed in so many neighborhoods," Clarke says. "These corner stores become magnets for drug trade, gambling, loitering. They become neighborhood nuisances."

While Clarke's constituents - particularly those in the Lake Montebello area - applaud her initiative, some in the city's more gentrified neighborhoods, where former storefronts have been turned into everything from coffeehouses to used book stores to chic restaurants, worry that the law would preclude those options.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...0,740805.story
__________________
My Flickr | My Facebook | Merthyr Tydfil Development
Laid by Monty
: Celebrating the architectural heritage of Montague Burton's Art Deco shops in the UK & Ireland
jeremai no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 03:04 PM   #3865
MasonsInquiries
B-MORE than u strive for!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baltimore/Columbia, Md.
Posts: 2,257
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huck View Post
Go Jays! National Champs!
yeah, congratulations JHU!!

Last edited by MasonsInquiries; May 29th, 2007 at 04:55 PM.
MasonsInquiries no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 03:32 PM   #3866
sdeclue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 879
Likes (Received): 47

Not a huge fan of that rendering, although who even know if it's correct at this point. Just looks to similar to First Mariner building and is too wide and short. I drove by the Canton Crossing location the other night and there is a ton of undeveloped land that they could really turn into something special. I would like to see them create a second downtown over there.
sdeclue no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 04:01 PM   #3867
30 Floors Up
Registered User
 
30 Floors Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Blue Ridge Summit
Posts: 3,377
Likes (Received): 812

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremai View Post
I am unsure what to think about the news below. I don't think any urbanist would question the value of small shops for walkability and eyes on the street. However, if they are hubs of crime contributing to Baltimore's woes, are they really a good thing? What do others think?
Bill targets corner stores
City official seeks to prevent retail use of space near houses
By Jill Rosen
Sun reporter
Originally published May 28, 2007

Before cars and before supermarkets, Baltimore depended on its corner stores, conveniently tucked into rowhouse neighborhoods so that groceries and incidentals were rarely more than footsteps away.

Though the city shops differently now and officials generally try to keep residential areas commerce-free, the shells of those former stores endure, vexing some, tickling the entrepreneurial imaginations of others.

City Councilwoman Mary Pat Clarke, whose district includes communities where the vacant storefronts are considered crime magnets, has introduced legislation that would prevent people from trying to reinvigorate former store space in residential areas.

"Things have changed in so many neighborhoods," Clarke says. "These corner stores become magnets for drug trade, gambling, loitering. They become neighborhood nuisances."

While Clarke's constituents - particularly those in the Lake Montebello area - applaud her initiative, some in the city's more gentrified neighborhoods, where former storefronts have been turned into everything from coffeehouses to used book stores to chic restaurants, worry that the law would preclude those options.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...0,740805.story
When I was growing up in Waverly, we lived right next to a corner store and my parents owned the store in the next block (McKewin Avenue @ Old York Road). There were corner stores on just about every block in my neighborhood and they weren't all food stores. There were drug stores, cleaners, butcher shops, bars, and food/grocery stores.

Personally, I like corner stores. There are all ready laws on the books about loitering, gambling, and drug dealing. If those are the reasons she wants to close the stores, I suggest that she encourage the police enforce the existing laws. In short, I see no valid reason to enact a law like this. Corner stores were a real asset to the community in the middle class neighborhood of my youth. Not every city resident owns a car.

~~~~~

Any day a Maryland team beats Duke is a good day! Congratulations JHU!

~~~~~

Looks as though work has started on the new Starbucks at Charles and Saratoga. It is next to the First Mariner bank. A large dumpster is now parked on Saratoga Street in front of one of the entrances (the other is on Charles).

A large wine store is moving into Charles Plaza near the new Super Fresh. In the future, you will be able to get drunk and sober up on the same corner. Now that's progress!

Last edited by 30 Floors Up; May 29th, 2007 at 04:30 PM.
30 Floors Up no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 04:08 PM   #3868
Hood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,046
Likes (Received): 62

Yes, congrats to JHU. I love that they won in baltiomre. So perfect. So close to losing though, that was a nail biter.
Hood no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 04:44 PM   #3869
jeremai
Grade I Listed
 
jeremai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Baltimore, USA / Wales, UK
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 122

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
Personally, I like corner stores. There are all ready laws on the books about loitering, gambling, and drug dealing. If those are the reasons she wants to close the stores, I suggest that she encourage the police enforce the existing laws.
Very good point; tackle the problem itself, don't just move it on to somewhere else!
__________________
My Flickr | My Facebook | Merthyr Tydfil Development
Laid by Monty
: Celebrating the architectural heritage of Montague Burton's Art Deco shops in the UK & Ireland
jeremai no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 05:06 PM   #3870
Gsol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,082
Likes (Received): 311

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbaltimore View Post
Yes, congrats to JHU. I love that they won in baltiomre. So perfect. So close to losing though, that was a nail biter.
I second that. I watched the first quarter of the game on ESPN, what I detected from the coverage was a sentiment toward Duke. This was backedup by a friend of mine who watched the entire coverage, and was further confirmed by the story in the NY Times.

This was more than a sporting event. It was also a news story, coverage focused on the fired coach, the players and Duke's reputation. What I take away from all I've seen and read is a news story about Duke's vindication. My friend who watched the entire ESPN coverage, said the image was that Duke really was the victor, and Hopkins was treated as an aside.

Anyway it was in Baltimore, we saw a filled stadium (in the lower stands) and very enthusiastic fans. Unfortunately we didn't see much of the city. Usually the play-by-play guys praise the city; didn't hear much of that. Baltimore should be the permanent venue since, unlike the other places, all the activity is downtown. You don't have to travel from your hotel to the event, its all centrally located. The game, hotel, restaurants and bars are all accessible by foot.

Now cough up the bucks to put the Lacrosse Hall of Fame downtown. This should be a no brainer.

Last edited by Gsol; May 29th, 2007 at 05:12 PM.
Gsol no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 05:53 PM   #3871
Maudibjr
Indeed
 
Maudibjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,267
Likes (Received): 132

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post

Personally, I like corner stores. There are all ready laws on the books about loitering, gambling, and drug dealing. If those are the reasons she wants to close the stores, I suggest that she encourage the police enforce the existing laws. In short, I see no valid reason to enact a law like this. Corner stores were a real asset to the community in the middle class neighborhood of my youth. Not every city resident owns a car.
I think if the bill was only focused on certain neighborhoods that don't want the stores (lake Montebello is mentioned) than limiting the corner store would just be a matter of rezoning. However to make a blanket bill for the whole city is dumb. Perhaps Mary Pat is just grandstanding to win some votes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
Any day a Maryland team beats Duke is a good day! Congratulations JHU!
Exactly.
Maudibjr no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:04 PM   #3872
PeterSmith
Moderator
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 5,856
Likes (Received): 2660

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
Any day a Maryland team beats Duke is a good day! Congratulations JHU!
Wada, you're always making excellent points, but this might be your accurate statement to date
PeterSmith no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:18 PM   #3873
PeterSmith
Moderator
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 5,856
Likes (Received): 2660

Outlawing Baltimore's corner stores isn't going to make even the slightest impact on crime in the city. Baltimore's crime is too entrenched to be defeated simply by taking away the corner stores. The crimes mentioned - the drug trade, gambling, loitering - are some of the most mobile and flexible crimes that one can commit. If the corner stores disappear, they'll just move elsewhere.
Also, it seems like the properties' character as a corner store as opposed to anything else isn't even the issue. The article makes clear that it is the vacant storefronts where the crime is, so what does it matter that the property is zoned for commercial use instead of residential? The property is vacant, just like so many other vacant properties in the city that are used for criminal activity. I'm usually not the most critical person on this forum, but even calling this a band-aid solution would be giving it undeserved credit.

That said, assuming the money was available, what would everyone think about giving small business grants to Baltimore's corner stores to fix themselves up? Do you think it would serve to create a gleam of hope and pride in some of the city's most depressed neighborhoods, or do you think the store owners would simply squander the money and crime would persist?
PeterSmith no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:21 PM   #3874
Hood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,046
Likes (Received): 62

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremai View Post
I am unsure what to think about the news below. I don't think any urbanist would question the value of small shops for walkability and eyes on the street. However, if they are hubs of crime contributing to Baltimore's woes, are they really a good thing? What do others think?
Bill targets corner stores
City official seeks to prevent retail use of space near houses
By Jill Rosen
Sun reporter
Originally published May 28, 2007

Before cars and before supermarkets, Baltimore depended on its corner stores, conveniently tucked into rowhouse neighborhoods so that groceries and incidentals were rarely more than footsteps away.

Though the city shops differently now and officials generally try to keep residential areas commerce-free, the shells of those former stores endure, vexing some, tickling the entrepreneurial imaginations of others.

City Councilwoman Mary Pat Clarke, whose district includes communities where the vacant storefronts are considered crime magnets, has introduced legislation that would prevent people from trying to reinvigorate former store space in residential areas.

"Things have changed in so many neighborhoods," Clarke says. "These corner stores become magnets for drug trade, gambling, loitering. They become neighborhood nuisances."

While Clarke's constituents - particularly those in the Lake Montebello area - applaud her initiative, some in the city's more gentrified neighborhoods, where former storefronts have been turned into everything from coffeehouses to used book stores to chic restaurants, worry that the law would preclude those options.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...0,740805.story
I am so disappointed in Mary Pat for proposing this. The problem isn’t the stores, is the people violating laws that are already on the books. I mean, if we feel that speeding is a big problem, do we decide to just ban cars to solve the speeding problem? If drunk driving is a problem, should be ban alcohol? If people get killed by handguns, do we ban guns? (heh heh) If people get killed with knives, do we ban cutlery? If women in federal hill keep on getting mugged for their purses, do we ban handbags? Oh boy, I can go on for a while on this.

What makes a city better than the burbs? Stores and people mixed together all within walking distance. If the stores are a problem, send the police there and enforce the laws on the books already.

Maybe the solution would be to provide grants and low interest loans to these store owners to beef up security, to pay for surveillance cameras, to provide for bullet proof glass, to pay for a blue police light outside their door etc. Or maybe the solution would be to get a states attorney in this town who can lock up the bad guys and keep them off the street.
Hood no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:26 PM   #3875
PeterSmith
Moderator
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 5,856
Likes (Received): 2660

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdeclue View Post
Not a huge fan of that rendering, although who even know if it's correct at this point. Just looks to similar to First Mariner building and is too wide and short. I drove by the Canton Crossing location the other night and there is a ton of undeveloped land that they could really turn into something special. I would like to see them create a second downtown over there.
Yeah, the architecture on this building, like that on the 1st Mariner tower, is a bit too suburban for my tastes. The renderings of Canton Crossing do seem to suggest that the buildings will all be fairly similar in style, color, and materials, so I think, even if the design does change somewhat, we'll probably get something very similar.

I think Ed Hale is also trying to create a sort-of second downtown, I just think his idea of a downtown isn't exactly the same as most other people's.
I'm not crossing my fingers, but I hope that when Canton Crossing is all said and done, it's monotony will be like that of Vancouver where there is a certain charm to the fact that everything look EXACTLY the same. I'm crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.
PeterSmith no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:29 PM   #3876
PeterSmith
Moderator
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 5,856
Likes (Received): 2660

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbaltimore View Post
If women in federal hill keep on getting mugged for their purses, do we ban handbags?
I wouldn't be all that opposed to this one.... it would give me back some closet space......
PeterSmith no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #3877
House3780
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Indian Ocean
Posts: 789
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
Wada, you're always making excellent points, but this might be your accurate statement to date
Once again Wada, no disrespect intended, but this is not the Baltimore you grew up in and you are looking from the outside in.

Its no where near as easy as you claim it to be. And your comment on enforcing loitering laws doesnt seem to take in to account the scrutiny the police force has been under by Baltimores citizens AND the ACLU for their enforcement of the current laws... specifically for searching and arresting people for those loitering laws. Their arrests are up considerably but because of over crowding jails and the difficulty of convicting anyone these days, enforcement of these loitering laws is not as easy as posting it on a forum.

So everyone here has to get over the man crushes and start thinking out of your 1950's Baltimore and Federal Hill mindsets. As soon as u have an abandoned store with ppl perpetually loitering outside of them no matter how many times they get arrested you would feel differently about this law. While I dont at this point favor or oppose the proposed law, Im not going to post suggestions based on my nostalgic feelings about Baltimore from way back when that have absolutely nothing to do with todays conditions (especially if i dont even live there anymore) nor post suggestions that only look good on the internet.

Last Tuesday/Wednesday morning 12 ppl were shot or stabbed, including one on water street. This is not the Baltimore you grew up in.

Go Blue Jays

Last edited by House3780; May 29th, 2007 at 07:11 PM.
House3780 no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 06:59 PM   #3878
Brian21
Registered User
 
Brian21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 917
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
I wouldn't be all that opposed to this one.... it would give me back some closet space......
Good One!
__________________
Brian
Brian21 no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 07:07 PM   #3879
House3780
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Indian Ocean
Posts: 789
Likes (Received): 5

The police get mixed signals.

Baltimore over the past few years have beefed up enforcement of the no loitering laws. Arrests are way up but convictions havent followed them. And now the ACLU is on their backs as well as many community leaders, saying the arrests are unwarranted and unconstitutional.

So the police ask, well what do you want us to do? If we arrest them you say its unconstitutional. If someone gets murdered on that corner next week, we didnt get the job done.

Look at the case of the kid on the dirt bike. They arrested a 6 year old for breaking the law. The mayor and citizens were outraged and said the police should have used better judgment.

If the kid had been allowed to ride that bike and got in to an accident the police would have been blamed for not enforcing the law.

Things are a whole lot easier to explain and workout on paper/internet than they are in real life. Please remember this.
House3780 no está en línea  
Old May 29th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #3880
MasonsInquiries
B-MORE than u strive for!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baltimore/Columbia, Md.
Posts: 2,257
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
Yeah, the architecture on this building, like that on the 1st Mariner tower, is a bit too suburban for my tastes. The renderings of Canton Crossing do seem to suggest that the buildings will all be fairly similar in style, color, and materials, so I think, even if the design does change somewhat, we'll probably get something very similar.

I think Ed Hale is also trying to create a sort-of second downtown, I just think his idea of a downtown isn't exactly the same as most other people's.
I'm not crossing my fingers, but I hope that when Canton Crossing is all said and done, it's monotony will be like that of Vancouver where there is a certain charm to the fact that everything look EXACTLY the same. I'm crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.
i can't wait to see what hale's triple-size look for canton crossing. it's gonna' be a great addition to SE baltimore.
MasonsInquiries no está en línea  


Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu