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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:47 AM   #3961
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Can anyone find these pics from the RWN Site any bigger? Cuz I can't seem to be able to find a larger rendering.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 04:24 AM   #3962
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The Merritt Athletic Club in Canton was suppose to move to another nearby Hale property but they are now staying put. Too expensive to move and rebuild. So I guess Canton Crossing will be built around the Merritt.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 05:26 AM   #3963
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more rumors about port covington... I went to Sam's Club down there today and asked the cashier if its true that their building was bought out... her response was that they were rental properties, and Sam's will not be re-newing their lease beyond January 2008... then she said something about hearing that condo's were going up in its place. Not sure how much this supports the rumor that trump was buying that land... but I think its enough to keep us salivating....
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 08:29 AM   #3964
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Quote:
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Can anyone find these pics from the RWN Site any bigger? Cuz I can't seem to be able to find a larger rendering.
From my understanding you have to move your mouse point over the image (without clicking it) and a larger image would pop up in a matter of seconds.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 08:40 AM   #3965
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and

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Old June 2nd, 2007, 09:04 AM   #3966
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From my understanding you have to move your mouse point over the image (without clicking it) and a larger image would pop up in a matter of seconds.
Thanks...didn't work for me, maybe my browser.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 09:06 AM   #3967
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and

The taller one is effectively 76 stories tall! This design would be fantastic for Baltimore, catipulting it into the 21st century. Too bad they're on hold.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 01:42 PM   #3968
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Tax break meant to keep Legg Mason
City Council to weigh $33 million subsidy for Harbor East project

By John Fritze and Jill Rosen
Sun reporters
Originally published June 2, 2007

A leading Baltimore developer would receive more than $33 million in city tax breaks to build a landmark headquarters for Legg Mason at an exclusive waterfront address, officials close to the proposed deal confirmed yesterday.

Under the terms of bill to be introduced in the City Council on Monday, H&S Properties Development Corp., owned by bakery magnate John Paterakis, would get the incentives to subsidize the cost of its $550 million Harbor East project, the officials said. The development includes another tower housing a Four Seasons hotel and condominiums.

M.J. "Jay" Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., which negotiated the deal, said the tax break - among the largest granted by the city - will retain 600 jobs at Legg Mason, a leading money management firm, and bring 500 more into one of the fastest-growing development corridors along the Inner Harbor.

"We believe, but for these additional pieces of assistance, the project would not be built," he said. "The message of having a new Legg Mason ... is a terrific message that we are expanding Baltimore's base of financial services."

The use of the tax abatement drew immediate criticism from a political opponent of Mayor Sheila Dixon - whose administration supports the measure - and from leaders of watchdog groups who question the city's use of tax breaks, especially in strong neighborhoods.

"It just doesn't pass the smell test," said City Councilman and mayoral candidate Keiffer J. Mitchell Jr. "Is there really a need for [it] in that area?"

As Paterakis developed Harbor East over the past decade, he benefited from tax breaks on nearly every phase of the project. The development transformed what was once an industrial no man's land to one of Baltimore's trendiest areas, with a Whole Foods market, expensive boutiques and exclusive apartments and condos.

Just a year ago, the city awarded the developer a $3.5 million tax break for the $201 million project rising at 800 Aliceanna St. Officials said H&S needed the subsidy to lower rents for its anchor office tenant, Laureate Education Inc., which had threatened to leave town.

In 2004, the city approved a $13.6 million break for Harbor East's Spinnaker Bay apartments. And years ago, the developer won $20 million in subsidies to build the Marriott Waterfront hotel.

The city did refuse tax breaks for a building that houses the Whole Foods and a Courtyard by Marriott.

For the Legg Mason tower, documents obtained by The Sun show that the City Council will consider a two-part tax break. One lasts 25 years and applies to a 1,200-space, below-ground parking garage to be shared by both towers. The other, running concurrently, will last 15 years and applies to the company's office space.

While the tax break is in effect, the developer would pay the full tax on the land, but only 5 percent of the tax it would normally pay on the buildings.

The developers are entitled to a separate state tax break for building in an enterprise zone. Brodie could not say yesterday how much that would be worth.

After H&S requested incentives late last year, Brodie said the BDC board met for three months - largely behind closed doors - to consider the request.

Even with the $33 million tax abatement, Brodie said, the twin towers would bring in $162.3 million in taxes - including income and property taxes.

The legislation will be introduced in the City Council Monday night and assigned to the taxation and finance committee, where it is likely to receive a hearing. City Councilwoman Helen L. Holton, who chairs that committee, said she hopes Legg Mason will consider giving back to the community - including by offering summer jobs to city youths.

"Sometimes, you have to look at the bigger picture of what it means. Is it worth losing a major employer by not offering the break?" she said. "An employer like this can make contributions - whether it's upgrading a computer in the school or having their employees volunteer some time."

Legg Mason announced in Feburary that it planned to leave its signature skyscraper at 100 Light St., the tallest building in the city, for the new Harbor East digs. Legg expects to move nearly all of its Baltimore-area employees to the new building by 2009, creating a significant vacancy in its former home in downtown's core.

Carolyn Boitnott, who leads the Waterfront Coalition, an organization that fought earlier Harbor East tax breaks, wonders about the city's rationale for continuing to subsidize the same developer.

She also worries that the city is encouraging a development that's hurting the traditional downtown.
"Giving them tax breaks and then moving businesses from downtown to the waterfront when downtown is still struggling is something I find personally discouraging," Boitnott said.




"It's one thing to give a tax break to get something started," she said. "Once you have a very successful development and you continue to do that, I would think it would be difficult for other developers who can't seem to get the same benefits. It's an equity issue and perhaps not a very good use of our money."

Philip Mattera, research director for Washington-based Good Jobs First, estimated the total value of annual state and local subsidies to businesses and corporations nationwide at $50 billion.

The nonprofit group, which promotes accountability in economic development policy, believes governments should offer subsidies only to make possible projects that otherwise might not happen.

"We think there are a lot of bad subsidy deals, but there are times when subsidies are justified," such as providing high-paying jobs, Mattera said. "A lot of local governments seem to think subsidies have to automatically be given to any project that might seem worthy."

Michael Sarbanes, who's running for City Council president, advised the city in drafting legislation that would require developers of residential projects that get subsidies to provide units for low-income people.

But with a commercial or an office project, Sarbanes said, using tax breaks could be a valuable tool for the city.

"You're looking at what is this doing overall in terms of the tax revenue for the city," he said. "If you have something that is going to generate more income, you can make an argument for it as an investment."

Councilman James B. Kraft, whose district includes Harbor East, said the towers will not only bolster the city's tax base but could lure other firms to Baltimore. For those reasons, he thinks the tax breaks are worth it:

"If this is what we have to do to make it work, I say let's do it. We're not going to lose money on this project."



[email protected] [email protected]
Sun reporter Lorraine Mirabella contributed to this article.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 01:51 PM   #3969
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Quote:
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The taller one is effectively 76 stories tall! This design would be fantastic for Baltimore, catipulting it into the 21st century. Too bad they're on hold.
I love these towers. Really, it's four towers and not just two. If built, surely, as these designs indicate, these two two towers would be the tallest in the city. I'm not sure if Pat Turner's 65 story tower would be taller. Maybe, but if so, not by much. From the renderings, it looks like these towers are well over 800 ft. tall. Might even be right at 900 ft. Just imagine if these two huge projects get built. Talk about changing a skyline.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:13 PM   #3970
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Baltimore would become a world class

city is 10 Inner Harbor, Turner Tower,300 East Pratt, and the Naing Towers are built. Add Tiffany's, REI, Target and Sak's Basement and the town starts looking more like New York or Chicago.

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I love these towers. Really, it's four towers and not just two. If built, surely, as these designs indicate, these two two towers would be the tallest in the city. I'm not sure if Pat Turner's 65 story tower would be taller. Maybe, but if so, not by much. From the renderings, it looks like these towers are well over 800 ft. tall. Might even be right at 900 ft. Just imagine if these two huge projects get built. Talk about changing a skyline.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:21 PM   #3971
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And the placement of Naing's towers would bring a "center" peak to the city's skyline. With Harbor east and other towers to one side and the other downtown/city center towers on the other side of them. IMO.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:32 PM   #3972
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Wow I love those towers!! That would be amazing. Just seeing those renderings shows me these guys are serious, even if the project has been put on hold. I was getting down on some of the buildings, especially with a lot of the cranes beginning to leave the skyline.

With 4 Seasons/Legg Mason just starting up and 10IH, 300 E Pratt and RWN hopefully closer to happening, we may have some things to look forward to after all.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:33 PM   #3973
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The Guilford Ave. and the 407 E. Saratoga Street developments would draw people to the city's center area again. The waterfront is getting all the development attention it seems. With these two projects, the City Center regains some clout.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:38 PM   #3974
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BTW, has anybody posted these proposals in the main forum high-rise "proposal" thread yet? It would be very interesting to see what people have to say about this.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 03:04 PM   #3975
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Quote:
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[snip] Just imagine if these two huge projects get built. Talk about changing a skyline.
Amen. What's also interesting is that RWN would be investing in a neighborhood (if you can even call it that) that, on the face of it, doesn't have a lot going for it ... for the last several decades, it's largely been home to a few city offices, back-office bank operations, storage facilities, parking lots, and the southern terminus of the JFX. The scale of what's proposed wouldn't just change the skyline, it would change the "facts on the ground" in the neighborhood: there would be a thousand or so folks living where there were none before.

Not to raise the hackles of the transportation-minded folks (nate, where ya been?), but the neighborhood would be a little more appealing if the JFX were a landscaped, at-grade boulevard there, and the surface parking lot at Guilford and Saratoga were a community park -- designed to still be able to accommodate the weekly farmers market.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 04:36 PM   #3976
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Quote:
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BTW, has anybody posted these proposals in the main forum high-rise "proposal" thread yet? It would be very interesting to see what people have to say about this.
Just took care of it, Steven. I think those towers are going to get a lot of great feedback from forumers around the world. I think those designs are phenomenal. This is the first time we've had a design proposed that could just have easily been found in Dubai or Singapore. I'd love to see what other designs were proposed for the site. The crowning feature reminds me of Marina Tower in Beiruit:
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 05:00 PM   #3977
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Now that we have a BalWash forum, we should probably try to create a thread where it's updated renderings and pictures of current and proposed projects only, so that we can get a better handle on what exactly is happening. The renderings seems to get lost in this thread with all of the other comments, not that I'm complaining about that. I love to talk development.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 05:06 PM   #3978
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Quote:
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more rumors about port covington... I went to Sam's Club down there today and asked the cashier if its true that their building was bought out... her response was that they were rental properties, and Sam's will not be re-newing their lease beyond January 2008... then she said something about hearing that condo's were going up in its place. Not sure how much this supports the rumor that trump was buying that land... but I think its enough to keep us salivating....
How do cashiers know this stuff? From my experience, retail management like to keep all their employees in the dark and provide info on a need to know basis.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 06:15 PM   #3979
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Quote:
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BTW, has anybody posted these proposals in the main forum high-rise "proposal" thread yet? It would be very interesting to see what people have to say about this.

Forgive my ignorance, but where might these towers be built?
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 06:20 PM   #3980
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Disregard that question. Just realized these are Naings towers...lol. I'm a retard.

These towers look awesome!
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